2024-2025 Around the NBA Thread

Yuma

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Bill Simmons called this. All new NBA owners make a drastic trade right away.
Human nature. They think the old owner was stupid, and they can fix the team. Most of these guys come from a business back ground where they acquired businesses and turned them around. Sports has it's own special niche of problems.
 

Mainstreet

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The way I look at it, the current Suns have talent, but it is not properly distributed.

James Jones left a gaping whole at center when filling out the roster.

It's their weakness, both offensively and defensively. The entire NBA knows it. The Suns lacked a defensive stopper in the middle and a player they can pass to inside to get easy buckets. It effected the whole team on both ends of the court.

This is why Richards looked like a star last night. The Suns simply needed NBA level talent at the center position. Now, the Suns require another 4/5 that has comparable talent... not star level talent as a backup. They simply need to be better than Nurkic and Plumlee.

Btw, this frees Booker, Beal and Durant to do what they get paid for. Defenses will not be able to collapse on them as frequently.
 

Yuma

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The way I look at it, the current Suns have talent, but it is not properly distributed.

James Jones left a gaping whole at center when filling out the roster.

It's their weakness, both offensively and defensively. The entire NBA knows it. The Suns lacked a defensive stopper in the middle and a player they can pass to inside to get easy buckets. It effected the whole team on both ends of the court.

This is why Richards looked like a star last night. The Suns simply needed NBA level talent at the center position. Now, the Suns require another 4/5 that has comparable talent... not star level talent as a backup. They simply need to be better than Nurkic and Plumlee.
I'd argue that's why Dunn looks so good when he's in. He's essentially our 4/5 on the floor when he starts. If you want to say KD, then fine. He's still making that look good from the 3 spot. Because we lacked defensive presence, just competence on the floor made Dunn and Richards look like world beaters compared to what we were doing. No offense to Oneal, he plays good D, but he's just not tall enough.
 

Yuma

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I'm not going to defend Sarver, but the Suns were quite competitive when he sold the team as in the word "Finals."
True. But when we drafted Booker, there was a stretch people have forgotten that makes this team look like a powerhouse!
 

Mainstreet

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I'd argue that's why Dunn looks so good when he's in. He's essentially our 4/5 on the floor when he starts. If you want to say KD, then fine. He's still making that look good from the 3 spot. Because we lacked defensive presence, just competence on the floor made Dunn and Richards look like world beaters compared to what we were doing. No offense to Oneal, he plays good D, but he's just not tall enough.

The Suns need more size in addition to Richards. And I'm not talking about Plumlee, Nurkic and Oso.

If not, we are going to see teams attack Richards to get him in foul trouble.

James Jones needs to realize this team needs more than wings.

Dunn can't play center, except for perhaps in small ball situations.
 

AzStevenCal

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What I am saying is their bank account may be bigger, but we have better assets than them right now. Their bank account is potential. Potential could be good, but shouldn't be assumed that it can't turn out bad either. We can't just look at their bank account and concede, they WILL be a great team in the future. You and I have both seen teams squander their assets and amount to nothing.
I don't think we do. We have a few more stars than they do but if you're really weighing value you need to include cost too.
 

Yuma

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I don't think we do. We have a few more stars than they do but if you're really weighing value you need to include cost too.
True.

But there's and old adage that goes, "Don't count your chickens before they hatch." that applies to their team, too.
 

AzStevenCal

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True.

But there's and old adage that goes, "Don't count your chickens before they hatch." that applies to their team, too.
I'm not sure why you're clinging to this idea? No one is saying that Brooklyn will win it all or compete for a title. Like any team, they have to build their future and even then, they need to get a little lucky. But we're in a huge hole, they aren't.
 

Yuma

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I'm not sure why you're clinging to this idea? No one is saying that Brooklyn will win it all or compete for a title. Like any team, they have to build their future and even then, they need to get a little lucky. But we're in a huge hole, they aren't.
Not true. We are encumbered at the present moment because of the second apron. We do have assets and the biggest is an owner who is willing to spend in free agency. When we get below the second apron, we can rebuild, too. Draft picks aren't the only way to acquire talent. Free agents want to come here because they know our owner is willing to spend.
 

Hoop Head

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Not true. We are encumbered at the present moment because of the second apron. We do have assets and the biggest is an owner who is willing to spend in free agency. When we get below the second apron, we can rebuild, too. Draft picks aren't the only way to acquire talent. Free agents want to come here because they know our owner is willing to spend.

It's more than the second apron, which we'll be over for the next 2 years. Any apron teams can't acquire players by sign and trade. We also can't offer more than the league minimum to free agents. We have no draft picks. We're stuck looking for minimum signings and good players rarely sign for minimum money. The story is out, we aren't good and even the chances of finding a Tyus Jones type fringe starter who wants to compete for a title is over.

The last time the Nets had the salary space they do now they signed KD and Kyrie. The Suns are in position to sign Damien Lee and Mason Plumlee. That's a huge difference. It doesn't matter who wants to come here if we can't make it happen. Jimmy Butler wants come here but he can't. He isn't signing a minimum deal and foregoing close to $50 million.

By the time the shackles are removed from the tax aprons we'll be nearing an extension for Dunn and Oso, possibly Richards. We're spending money left and right without improving the team in a meaningful way. We did that already with Grayson and Royce. We won't be capable of adding any max salaries stars because we won't have assets to do so. We won't have cap space to offer anyone sizeable money.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I'm sorry, I just can't agree with your logic. Brooklyn has 1,000 bucks, we have 74 cents. Yes, they could very well waste their 1,000 bucks but I'd still much rather have their bank account than ours.
But if they buy trash that $1,000 was meaningless. I get his point. They have assets. But you can’t watch assets on a basketball court. And these assets aren’t guaranteed ROI. Bender, chriss, Jackson, stix and on and on. Also if you hoard that treasure and never effectively convert it to talent it’s also meaningless.

Don’t get me wrong, as I’m a championship or bust guy I’d rather reset and have what they have because I don’t believe our current squad has that potential. But what they have are a lot of lottery tickets at best. No guarantees.
 

Ouchie-Z-Clown

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I'm sorry, I just can't agree with your logic. Brooklyn has 1,000 bucks, we have 74 cents. Yes, they could very well waste their 1,000 bucks but I'd still much rather have their bank account than ours.
Also, this analogy is faulty because it focuses solely on one type of asset, money. It fails to consider property.

The nets property (players) don’t carry as much value as the suns. If you traded all the nets players and the suns traded all their players I’m confident the suns get a greater haul. Do they end up with the equivalent value? Probably not because one of the pieces of suns property has devalued (KD), but it’s a lot closer than $1,000 to 74 cents.
 

AzStevenCal

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Also, this analogy is faulty because it focuses solely on one type of asset, money. It fails to consider property.

The nets property (players) don’t carry as much value as the suns. If you traded all the nets players and the suns traded all their players I’m confident the suns get a greater haul. Do they end up with the equivalent value? Probably not because one of the pieces of suns property has devalued (KD), but it’s a lot closer than $1,000 to 74 cents.
No, I was including rosters. I just think if you're examining value you also have to factor in upside-down contracts, of which we have several. And thanks to the new CBA rules, I'm not sure we can trade our way out of those upside down contracts without including picks (that we don't have).

We're supposedly trying to win a title and we have 21 wins. Brooklyn is actively tanking and they have 14 wins. YMMV but all told, I would much rather have Brooklyn's roster and salary commitments than ours.
 

Yuma

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It's more than the second apron, which we'll be over for the next 2 years. Any apron teams can't acquire players by sign and trade. We also can't offer more than the league minimum to free agents. We have no draft picks. We're stuck looking for minimum signings and good players rarely sign for minimum money. The story is out, we aren't good and even the chances of finding a Tyus Jones type fringe starter who wants to compete for a title is over.

The last time the Nets had the salary space they do now they signed KD and Kyrie. The Suns are in position to sign Damien Lee and Mason Plumlee. That's a huge difference. It doesn't matter who wants to come here if we can't make it happen. Jimmy Butler wants come here but he can't. He isn't signing a minimum deal and foregoing close to $50 million.

By the time the shackles are removed from the tax aprons we'll be nearing an extension for Dunn and Oso, possibly Richards. We're spending money left and right without improving the team in a meaningful way. We did that already with Grayson and Royce. We won't be capable of adding any max salaries stars because we won't have assets to do so. We won't have cap space to offer anyone sizeable money.
Sign and trade is becoming a very minor way trades are getting done in today's NBA. Already teams are trying to avoid both aprons at all. Why would you trade for a guy the other team just salaried up? It's not really an option that is used much anymore.

I am saying we have to just wait out the situation we are in now. We will get relief next season either in an expiring trade for Nurkic, or a buy out, etc. Unfortunately we have Beal a couple more seasons. So I don't care if we extend KD as long as it's NOT passed when Beal's contract expires. After Beal's contract expires, and Assuming KD at the same time, then we are WAY below BOTH the aprons. that's just in two more seasons.

We just traded for a younger guy in Richards who we will have the option of extending, or non guarantee, just waive him next season.

Once we get below the apron, we are not screwed by not having draft picks. We will currently pick a second this off season, assuming we don't trade it, and we have a first the season after that. That's before possibly jettisoning Beal and KD.
 

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I would argue he would still have one of the biggest pieces of luggage. I just hope the Suns can find something...anything for Nurk without giving up assets. Although, my feeling is we are going to have to ride Nurk out.
Is it flu season still?
 

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Evan Sidery

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The Pacers are very unlikely to make a significant move before the trade deadline.Indiana is currently on a 14-4 stretch, and they’re now healthy for the first time in two months.Indiana has been unwilling to include any of their key young core pieces in previous trade talks.
 

Mainstreet

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It's clear, the Suns are going for it.

Give me another center as good or better than Richards, then get out of the way.

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