3 months ago-Leftwich was the guy and Suggs was a reach at #6. What happened?

[Lomax to Green 84]

We all are afraid to admit it, but we are influenced by guys like Mel Kiper , Peter King, and John Clayton and all the other so called "experts". 3 months ago I would venture that 80 percent of the posters on this boards would have soiled themselves if they thought Bryon Leftwich was still going to be available with the 6th pick, and most thought Terrell Suggs was a bit of a reach because he was looked at as one dimensional. I find it rather humorous (and I am laughing at myself as well) that so much could change in the last 3 months and not one of these guys (Leftwich or Suggs) has done one thing on the field in the last 3 months to change anybody's opinion.

I can remember the day that Kiper listed Terrell Suggs as his #3 guy overall. Suddenly Terrell Suggs went from a Dwight Freeney/Jevon Kearse type (mid first round) to a possible #1 overall selection and all of us were taken in. I would venture that not many of us had Carson Palmer as the #1 guy, but now most accept that he will be the top pick even though our eyes and our memories of what we saw on Saturday's showed us that he wasn't warrenting the top spot.

Think back 3 to 5 months ago. Try to erase all the Sporting News insider stuff, KFFL, Mel Kiper, Pro Football Weekly and every other piece of garbage and give me your honest assessment of the top 6 players in this draft and in what order. This draft stuff really is amazing. The one example that absolutely proves my point is with LeMarcus McDonald OLB from TCU. If anyone had a chance to see this kid play, you would have immediately fallen in love with him. His on the field speed is tremendous, his instincts, his impact on the field is amazing. However, because he ran a so-so 40 yard dash time and didn't impress with the "shuttle" drill he suddenly went from a sure fire 1-2 round pick to a lower round selection. I have always loved Mike Ditka opinion of the scouting combine. He grumbled that he didn't give a rats a%% what a kid could run with his shorts on. He wanted guys who could make plays on the field.

Trying to purge myself of the draft guru mind washing, here are my top 6 players (college performance and NFL potential) based purely on what I saw on the field last fall:

1. Terrell Suggs-DE Arizona State-Hands down the best player in the country this past season.

2. Byron Leftwich-Quarterback Marshall-He threw some mindboggling 80 touchdowns to 16 interceptions in the last 2 seasons. I don't care if Kyle Boller can throw a ball on his knees through the goal post while kneeling at the 50 yard line. He can't hold Leftwich's jock and neither can Carson Palmer.

3. Charles Rodgers-WR Michigan State-This guy is a ton better than Andre Johnson, I don't care that he is 20 pounds lighter and runs .2 seconds slower in the 40 yard dash.

4. Terrence Newman-CB Kansas State-Many may argue with me on this one, but I caught quite a few K-State games this past season and he has that Deion type speed that can't be taught. Sure Dennis Wethersby supposedly ran a 4.31 compared to Newman's 4.38, but I guarantee you that Newman would run circles around Wethersby on the field.

5. Dewayne Robertson-DT Kentucky-I am picking him because he was dominant on a crappy team and played at a high level despite getting double teamed. Jimmy Kennedy has at least 2 other guys (Haynes and the other defensive tackle) who will also be playing in the pros. Robertson had no one else. I am starting to wonder if Roberston was the reason Dennis Johnson had so many sacks 2 years ago.

6. Marcus Trufant-CB Washington State-Hard to say if Newman or Trufant will be the better cornerback. Only saw this guy with my own eyes at the Senior Bowl, but he was the type of player that makes even a novice like myself take notice. I mentioned to my brother when we were watching the Senior Bowl that Trufant (didn't have a clue who he was at the time) was hands down the most athletically gifted guy on that field.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Dude Lamarcus McDonald didn't run a so-so 40 time, he ran an absolutely horrid time. He ran a 5.0 at 220....not good.....would be a decent time if he weighed 320.

I actually agree with your top six.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Originally posted by Holian
We all are afraid to admit it, but we are influenced by guys like Mel Kiper , Peter King, and John Clayton and all the other so called "experts". 3 months ago I would venture that 80 percent of the posters on this boards would have soiled themselves if they thought Bryon Leftwich was still going to be available with the 6th pick, and most thought Terrell Suggs was a bit of a reach because he was looked at as one dimensional. I find it rather humorous (and I am laughing at myself as well) that so much could change in the last 3 months and not one of these guys (Leftwich or Suggs) has done one thing on the field in the last 3 months to change anybody's opinion.

I can remember the day that Kiper listed Terrell Suggs as his #3 guy overall. Suddenly Terrell Suggs went from a Dwight Freeney/Jevon Kearse type (mid first round) to a possible #1 overall selection and all of us were taken in. I would venture that not many of us had Carson Palmer as the #1 guy, but now most accept that he will be the top pick even though our eyes and our memories of what we saw on Saturday's showed us that he wasn't warrenting the top spot.

Think back 3 to 5 months ago. Try to erase all the Sporting News insider stuff, KFFL, Mel Kiper, Pro Football Weekly and every other piece of garbage and give me your honest assessment of the top 6 players in this draft and in what order. This draft stuff really is amazing. The one example that absolutely proves my point is with LeMarcus McDonald OLB from TCU. If anyone had a chance to see this kid play, you would have immediately fallen in love with him. His on the field speed is tremendous, his instincts, his impact on the field is amazing. However, because he ran a so-so 40 yard dash time and didn't impress with the "shuttle" drill he suddenly went from a sure fire 1-2 round pick to a lower round selection. I have always loved Mike Ditka opinion of the scouting combine. He grumbled that he didn't give a rats a%% what a kid could run with his shorts on. He wanted guys who could make plays on the field.

Trying to purge myself of the draft guru mind washing, here are my top 6 players (college performance and NFL potential) based purely on what I saw on the field last fall:

1. Terrell Suggs-DE Arizona State-Hands down the best player in the country this past season.

2. Byron Leftwich-Quarterback Marshall-He threw some mindboggling 80 touchdowns to 16 interceptions in the last 2 seasons. I don't care if Kyle Boller can throw a ball on his knees through the goal post while kneeling at the 50 yard line. He can't hold Leftwich's jock and neither can Carson Palmer.

3. Charles Rodgers-WR Michigan State-This guy is a ton better than Andre Johnson, I don't care that he is 20 pounds lighter and runs .2 seconds slower in the 40 yard dash.

4. Terrence Newman-CB Kansas State-Many may argue with me on this one, but I caught quite a few K-State games this past season and he has that Deion type speed that can't be taught. Sure Dennis Wethersby supposedly ran a 4.31 compared to Newman's 4.38, but I guarantee you that Newman would run circles around Wethersby on the field.

5. Dewayne Robertson-DT Kentucky-I am picking him because he was dominant on a crappy team and played at a high level despite getting double teamed. Jimmy Kennedy has at least 2 other guys (Haynes and the other defensive tackle) who will also be playing in the pros. Robertson had no one else. I am starting to wonder if Roberston was the reason Dennis Johnson had so many sacks 2 years ago.

6. Marcus Trufant-CB Washington State-Hard to say if Newman or Trufant will be the better cornerback. Only saw this guy with my own eyes at the Senior Bowl, but he was the type of player that makes even a novice like myself take notice. I mentioned to my brother when we were watching the Senior Bowl that Trufant (didn't have a clue who he was at the time) was hands down the most athletically gifted guy on that field.

Five months ago half of the guys you listed were juniors and for all we knew they might not come out early. A lot has happened over the last couple of months. As soon as the Juniors declared for the draft it reshuffled things right away.

Then other things happened, like when Trufant shot up the board after he had an awesome senior bowl. Leftwich came out and said he was injured the last part of the season, couple that with his lack of athleticism and some wondered if he would be able to survive the entire season. Of course workouts like the Combine and individual workouts also changed the mock drafts a little.

Just because someone had a great college career doesn't mean that it will translate to the NFL. The same can be said for those who had a great workout at the Combine. What you need to do is look at is a little of everything and that is why you are seeing changes in the draft boards.

 

[arthurracoon]

I agree with your top 6.

The combine means nothing in reality, only perception.
In the end, perception will mean nothing.
Only reality (and a little perception) will matter.

Reality is their college career.

The combine shows one part of a player.

It's like touching the elephant's tail and thinking an elephant is like a rope.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Can you say H-Y-P-E ???
I think Suggs was a good college player, and MAY be a decent Pro. But I also think he is the most overhyped player in the draft right now.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Can you say H-Y-P-E ???
I think Suggs was a good college player, and MAY be a decent Pro. But I also think he is the most overhyped player in the draft right now.

I've watched him for 3 years now, and frankly, he wasn't hyped enough. The guy had 24 sacks this past season, which is damn good reason to hype him.

I will personally guarantee that he will be a Pro Bowler more than once, and I wouldn't be surprised if he went to 8-10 Pro Bowls.

 

[BW52]

Remember a certain Wisconsin DE had 20 sacks his senior year and has failed in the NFL, ( Thomas Burke)

 

[football karma]

Do any ASU fans remember Eric Flowers? A good but not great player at ASU – after the season, put on twenty pounds, ran a hot forty time and suddenly, he was taken in the FIRST round by Buffalo. I remember hearing the hype close to draft time and thinking –“what am I missing?”.

I mention this as a classic example of how pre-draft hype can lead to some interesting draft decisions.

Suggs is a different player – he has incredible on field production to go with his work out numbers.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by en fuego
Do any ASU fans remember Eric Flowers? A good but not great player at ASU – after the season, put on twenty pounds, ran a hot forty time and suddenly, he was taken in the FIRST round by Buffalo. I remember hearing the hype close to draft time and thinking –“what am I missing?”.

I mention this as a classic example of how pre-draft hype can lead to some interesting draft decisions.

Suggs is a different player – he has incredible on field production to go with his work out numbers.

I actually really liked Eric Flowers, but I think he was and is an underachiever....

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by BW52
Remember a certain Wisconsin DE had 20 sacks his senior year and has failed in the NFL, ( Thomas Burke)

Thomas Burke was picked in the 3rd round....and he wasn't as productive over his career, or nearly the athlete.

 

[ajcardfan]

Originally posted by BW52
Remember a certain Wisconsin DE had 20 sacks his senior year and has failed in the NFL, ( Thomas Burke)

Not even the same as Suggs. Burke was never rated higher than a second rounder. What he did that season with his limited physical ability was truly amazing.

As for why Leftwich is sliding, and Suggs is rising, I just think people are getting smart because that's how I saw it months ago! Not that I can't be wrong. I thought Leaf was going to be better than Manning!

 

[BW52]

Hey guys don`t get fired up.I like Suggs.I was a doubter in the beginning and the more info is available on the guy the more he goes up.If he is available i say take him.Just don`t think he will be available at 6.On the Burke post i was just sayiong No player is a sure thing.Burke had ton`s of heart.He just wasn`t as talented as Suggs and couldn`t stay healthy.

 

[Skkorpion]

Reality is their college career.

arthurracoon is the voice of wisdom. Look at what a player has done, not his workouts.

 

[Skkorpion]

I'll take Leftwich. Suggs is truly great and has dominated his whole career but a franchise QB is worth any 5 starters.

 

[JeffGollin]

1. Lefwich's leg.
2. Free agent moves which change team needs
3. Assumptions made about what various top 6 teams will/won't do were made before the teams themselves even did much thinking about their draft plans.
4. Incomplete info on prospects -including Combine and Pro Day numbers.
5. And don't discount changes in the ratings of lower ranked players. A team thinking it had to draft for need at a certain position might now be willing to wait til the 2nd (& even the 3rd) round to address that need.
6. The late season and post season eyeball tests always trump what the gurus think in September.

This is why earlier I kept harping on why it was way too early to do mock drafts - because the landscape would change dramatically in Feb. and March.

 

[arthurracoon]

The worst part of the combine for lineman is the 40.

HOW OFTEN DO LINEMEN RUN 40 YARDS AT A STRETCH?????????????????????

The combine is stupid (mostly).

 

[arthurracoon]

Only reason Suggs and Leftwich should move is because of injury (leg-BL) or off field problems, or something non-combine related.

Unfortunately the combine is overhyped.

I hope Suggs has a sub-par day and falls to #6.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

A guy who has risen into the 1st round because of his workouts is Kenny Peterson from Ohio State.I don't see it.He was hyped coming out of high school but has really done nothing spectacular on the field that would merit a number 1 choice.He never was a full time starter until this year.But a good Fiesta Bowl,Senior Bowl week,and combine and he has shot up to as high as the mid first round..I think he benefitted from having Wil Smith and Darrion SCott on the DL with him.There must be something the scouts like but i don't see it.I originally thought he'd be a good second day pickup.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by arthurracoon
Only reason Suggs and Leftwich should move is because of injury (leg-BL) or off field problems, or something non-combine related.

Unfortunately the combine is overhyped.

I hope Suggs has a sub-par day and falls to #6.

Uhmm....the combine happened at least a month ago, and Suggs will be working out today or tommorrow. He postponed his section of ASU's pro day until the owners were in town.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by Cbus cardsfan
A guy who has risen into the 1st round because of his workouts is Kenny Peterson from Ohio State.I don't see it.He was hyped coming out of high school but has really done nothing spectacular on the field that would merit a number 1 choice.He never was a full time starter until this year.But a good Fiesta Bowl,Senior Bowl week,and combine and he has shot up to as high as the mid first round..I think he benefitted from having Wil Smith and Darrion SCott on the DL with him.There must be something the scouts like but i don't see it.I originally thought he'd be a good second day pickup.

You might have a very good observation here Cbus.

Be wary of guys who are all-star game studs, or combine studs that showed very little in their college careers.

 

[arthurracoon]

Uhmm....the combine happened at least a month ago, and Suggs will be working out today or tommorrow. He postponed his section of ASU's pro day until the owners were in town.

Yeah, that's what I meant

I hope he has a mediocre day tommorow.

Thanks for clarifying

 

[Krangodnzr]

Originally posted by arthurracoon
Yeah, that's what I meant

I hope he has a mediocre day tommorow.

Thanks for clarifying

sorry to sound like a jerk....I read what I wrote a few hours earlier and I realize how much of a jerk I sounded like!

 

[arthurracoon]