4-team Trade

jbeecham

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YAWN... Well New Orleans better hope Chris Paul doesn't force a trade or get injured now that they've traded away their backup PG. I wonder who starts at SF... Peja or Ariza? Adding Ariza made Julian Wright expendable so I understand why they shipped him off for Bellineli... SG is what they really needed unless Ariza is gonna slide over & play the 2.
 

cly2tw

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Given Collison's performance, NO got robbed in this deal. Pacers are the big winner to turn Murphy into their future starting PG.
 
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Chaplin

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Given Collison's performance, NO got robbed in this deal. Pacers are the big winner to turn Murphy into their future starting PG.

If this trade allows Chris Paul to stay with New Orleans for the long term, I'd say that New Orleans might be indirectly a winner here.
 

Divide Et Impera

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IND has been looking for a PG for who knows how long! Looks like they got one.

I don't know a damned thing about the IND roster (has there even been a more irrelevant team than IND over the last several years?!?!). All I know is that they have Collison-???-Granger-???-??? with Posey on the bench....
 

cly2tw

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If this trade allows Chris Paul to stay with New Orleans for the long term, I'd say that New Orleans might be indirectly a winner here.

By getting the short end of a deal involving of the best PG prospect in Collison? Why would Paul be impressed by that kind of lack of management skill to stay, and believe it would build a contender this way?:bang:
 
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Chaplin

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By getting the short end of a deal involving of the best PG prospect in Collison? Why would Paul be impressed by that kind of lack of management skill to stay, and believe it would build a contender this way?:bang:

Darren Collison will easily start with Indiana, and could start with 75% of the teams in the NBA. The Hornets needed a wing player. Chris Paul was certainly more tradeable with Collison waiting in the wings. Now, the Hornets commit their future to Paul and tell him that as long as he is in New Orleans, he will be the #1 guy, mainly because they have nobody to take over for him. And they got Ariza--not the ideal wing, but it's better than what they had, which was James Posey. And the reports are that Paul was consulted on the trade.

How is that not totally apparent? I can't believe that you cannot see that. Again, this trade was about 2 things and 2 things only: Get a wing player in Ariza and show Chris Paul that the Hornets are willing to commit their entire future to him.
 

SunsTzu

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How is that not totally apparent? I can't believe that you cannot see that. Again, this trade was about 2 things and 2 things only: Get a wing player in Ariza and show Chris Paul that the Hornets are willing to commit their entire future to him.

NOH getting Ariza is along the same lines of the Cavs getting Jamison, only the Cavs gave up less and Jamison is more an impact player.

Paul may be temporarily happy with a move because it appears to be proactive, but the fact of the matter is Ariza is an overpaid role player on a long term deal. The Hornets best bet at fielding a contender with Paul required them getting a good return on Collison(or at least being able to shed Okafor with him).

Once this move fails to significantly improve the Hornets, which I think it will, Paul will want out more than ever.
 

SweetD

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Wow I think NO got killed in this deal. They should have got a 1st rounder out of it.
 
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Chaplin

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NOH getting Ariza is along the same lines of the Cavs getting Jamison, only the Cavs gave up less and Jamison is more an impact player.

Paul may be temporarily happy with a move because it appears to be proactive, but the fact of the matter is Ariza is an overpaid role player on a long term deal. The Hornets best bet at fielding a contender with Paul required them getting a good return on Collison(or at least being able to shed Okafor with him).

Once this move fails to significantly improve the Hornets, which I think it will, Paul will want out more than ever.

You are mistaken about my post. Getting Ariza was a big part for the Hornets, but it wasn't the part of the trade that affects Paul the most. It's getting rid of Collison, who will be a starter in Indiana. Because let's face it, with Collison as his backup, Chris Paul becomes less important. He's a great player, but Collison could easily become the #1 point guard on that team if the Hornets decided to trade Paul.

Now, there is no Collison, so the Hornets are essentially saying it's Paul or bust. As for Ariza--don't discount the fact that a player was needed to complete the trade and Ariza probably was the only one that could fit the parameters of the deal with all the different participants. It may seem like a straight-forward deal, but it was probably pretty complicated. The Hornets needed a wing player badly--they basically had Peja and that's it--that's awful. Ariza isn't great, but he's better than what they had.

Talent for talent, though, I'd say yes, the Hornets got shafted. But this trade was more than just talent for talent.
 

SunsTzu

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All I was trying to say is the Hornets making a move to try to make Paul happy instead of getting the best return on their talent is a mistake and will not convince Paul to stay long term. Just like the Cavs making all the moves LeBron wanted but didn't work.

Collison is a starting caliber PG and Ariza is a fringe starter SF. Paul might like the addition for now but when the Hornets are battling to try and stay in playoff contention his mood will sour.
 

cly2tw

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Darren Collison will easily start with Indiana, and could start with 75% of the teams in the NBA. The Hornets needed a wing player. Chris Paul was certainly more tradeable with Collison waiting in the wings. Now, the Hornets commit their future to Paul and tell him that as long as he is in New Orleans, he will be the #1 guy, mainly because they have nobody to take over for him. And they got Ariza--not the ideal wing, but it's better than what they had, which was James Posey. And the reports are that Paul was consulted on the trade.

How is that not totally apparent? I can't believe that you cannot see that. Again, this trade was about 2 things and 2 things only: Get a wing player in Ariza and show Chris Paul that the Hornets are willing to commit their entire future to him.

I believe Collison would get them Anthony Randolph, Blatche, or some other top talent, while Posey + 2nd rounder would get them Ariza. Collison is that valuable and Ariza is that bad a contract.
How is that not totally apparent? I can't believe that you cannot see that. Again, the critique on this trade was about 1 thing and 1 thing only: NOH could have gotten much better return for their asset.
 
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Chaplin

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I believe Collison would get them Anthony Randolph, Blatche, or some other top talent, while Posey + 2nd rounder would get them Ariza. Collison is that valuable and Ariza is that bad a contract.
How is that not totally apparent? I can't believe that you cannot see that. Again, the critique on this trade was about 1 thing and 1 thing only: NOH could have gotten much better return for their asset.

Really? Maybe you should have applied for their General Manager position. You have no idea if that's true. In your opinion, Collison is worth a lot, but that doesn't mean he in in the reality of the NBA.

I happen to have the same opinion that Collison appears to be worth more than Ariza, but it could be that Collison isn't as highly rated as we think he is OR Ariza isn't as negatively rated as we think he is. The odds that he could have gotten the Hornets someone a lot better than Ariza aren't as good as you think they are.
 

Mainstreet

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Wow I think NO got killed in this deal. They should have got a 1st rounder out of it.

A quality PG is worth more than a quality SF. Quality PGs are harder to find. As you say, I think NO should have gotten more than Ariza out of the deal . I understand NO is trying to make Paul happy but still this is still a weak trade for NO. Actually if I were NO I would have thought long and hard about keeping Collison and trading Paul. Paul would have gotten NO some nice pieces in return... just thinking.
 

Sunburn

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NOH getting Ariza is along the same lines of the Cavs getting Jamison, only the Cavs gave up less and Jamison is more an impact player.

Paul may be temporarily happy with a move because it appears to be proactive, but the fact of the matter is Ariza is an overpaid role player on a long term deal. The Hornets best bet at fielding a contender with Paul required them getting a good return on Collison(or at least being able to shed Okafor with him).

Once this move fails to significantly improve the Hornets, which I think it will, Paul will want out more than ever.

This. We've seen this kind of shtick play out in Cleveland already. Teams that bend over to pander to their unhappy stars get screwed in the end. It's like having a gf who's not that into the relationship. Buying jewelry and pretty things won't keep her there. If anything, she'll sense your desperation and just lose respect for you. She leaves anyway and you're out the extra cash. Then you resent her for "using" you when really it was your own damn fault for trying to buy love and flushing your integrity down the toilet. I'm looking at you Dan Gilbert.

The team that handled this situation correctly imo was the Lakers. When Kobe was unhappy, they didn't make a snap trade just to appease their star. I believe Kobe wanted Andrew Bynum traded for J.Kidd at the time. The Lakers brass didn't want to trade Bynum. They held out for the right deal, and sure enough, Gasol got dropped into their lap. I think it turned out pretty well for LA. Maybe they were just lucky, but at the very least, they didn't crumble to their star's demands and upheld a little FO integrity.
 
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AzStevenCal

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It's like having a gf who's not that into the relationship. Buying jewelry and pretty things won't keep her there. If anything, she'll sense your desperation and just lose respect for you. She leaves anyway and you're out the extra cash. Then you resent her for "using" you when really it was your own damn fault for trying to buy love and flushing your integrity down the toilet.

First hand knowledge? If so, I'm pretty sure there's a support group out there for ya. BTW, it never would happened if you'd have kept a supply of chocolates on hand. And if it did, you could at least enjoy the chocolates.:)

Steve
 

slinslin

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YAWN... Well New Orleans better hope Chris Paul doesn't force a trade or get injured now that they've traded away their backup PG. I wonder who starts at SF... Peja or Ariza? Adding Ariza made Julian Wright expendable so I understand why they shipped him off for Bellineli... SG is what they really needed unless Ariza is gonna slide over & play the 2.

They got Thornton who is a very good shooting guard.
 
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