49er's PR Director fired after tape leak

conraddobler

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40yearfan said:
Gimme a break CD. You really think we believe that slavery was OK? As for chasing a sec. around the desk, I never did that and I have been in a management position for the past 30 years. We might have had a few bad apples, but the majority of the men in my generation treated women with respect. You protected them rather than harrassed them, held doors open for them, and complimented them for their value in the workplace. Most people don't realize how valuable a girl Friday is until they leave.


My point is that your arguement is a bit like, well everyone else is doing it so it must be fine.

I just don't see the problem here. I agree with other posters, the fact it leaked is what did him in.

The audience it was intended for didn't seem to mind since they are grown men with agents and lawyers the fact no one made a fuss means it didn't harm to many peoples feelings.

That does not make it a wise career move for a PR director. His job is as others just said to make the organization look good. He failed horribly when the tape leaked.

End of story to me.
 

LoyaltyisaCurse

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conraddobler said:
My point is that your arguement is a bit like, well everyone else is doing it so it must be fine.

I just don't see the problem here. I agree with other posters, the fact it leaked is what did him in.

The audience it was intended for didn't seem to mind since they are grown men with agents and lawyers the fact no one made a fuss means it didn't harm to many peoples feelings.

That does not make it a wise career move for a PR director. His job is as others just said to make the organization look good. He failed horribly when the tape leaked.

End of story to me.

Evidenced by PR guys qoute on the video from article:

"You do something controversial, you say something controversial, it will have an impact on this team. So remember, be mindful of your actions," Reynolds says later, wearing only a towel before joining three topless women for a group hug. "What you do is not only a reflection of yourself. It's a reflection of the San Francisco 49ers."
 

conraddobler

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40yearfan said:
Dback, in your instance, I have to agree with you. I just feel that this tape was made with no malice in mind and was an attempt to inject humor into a serious subject. People listen to Chris Rock and are not horrified by his complete lack of PC. I feel this guy should be given leeway also.


No they aren't and they aren't horrified at Dave Chappel either but if you try their routines at a large corporation you will be fired within 15 seconds.

I on the whole agree with you, I think that PC'ness in a lot of cases is totally out of control. This issue I don't see so much as PC as pure stupidity.

True he did not intend the tape to leak or be shown outside the organization but that's hardly much of a defense once it did. His job is to make the team look good, he failed miserably so he got fired, that's what generally happens when you screw up that bad.

His main problem is that he allowed himself to be drug off by the PC mob, his own actions did, the tape might have been funny but it didn't have to be made.

I have myself seen good people ground up by this stuff and it goes way too far in certain instances, I agree on that part. This guy I don't feel really sorry for.
 

40yearfan

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LoyaltyisaCurse said:
40, if some one in your business made a tape like this that represents your company and features employees using racial jokes and topless women don't you think you would have to fire him?

It is not about being PC it is about proper professional conduct of which that is not.

Producing that video was an incredibly stupid proffessional choice and somebody had to be held accountable and since you cannot fire the owner they fired the PR director.


No I wouldn't fire them. If they had made it, it would have been at my request and I guarantee you I would screen it before it was shown (something I'm sure the 49ers management did). Then if it got out and a big brouhaha occured, it would be my problem and my responsibility.

When you have a close knit group like we have in this company, you don't have to be so PC minded. There is nothing unprofessional about comraderie or friendship when it comes to a group of people who have a genuine affection for each other. We had a safety meeting at noon today with 20 of our top people and the jokes/barbs were flying fast and furious.

When you fire someone just to satisfy public sentiment, you have done yourself and the person who was fired a great disservice. Life is filled with choices and when you compromise your values to assuage a preceived wrong doing, it greatly lessens you as a human being.
 

40yearfan

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Camshaft said:
I'm with you 40yearfan. Humor has gone down the tubes with political correctness. Humor in a politcally correct society is like talking to a bureaucrat. Heck, it's like my doctor. First he has me cut out smoking. Next, he has me cut out drinking. Then, he has me cut out sex. Now, he has me cutting out paper dolls.

:biglaugh:
 

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LoyaltyisaCurse said:
I think the organization knew about it, and figured if it never hits the public it would be fine. But, once it hit the public it is a PR disaster, therefore PR person is fired to "ease the public" with a sacrificial lamb.

That is why it makes sense to me, the PR rep is supposed to help keep up a good image with the public and its natural to fire him since that is the main function of his job;to make 49ers look good.

I guess that makes sense I guess my point is in a perfect world what's appropriate and what's inappropriate isn't changed because you "get caught".

But it's not a perfect world so I do see your point.
 

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Excuse me.

Where could one procure said video?

Thank you; please carry on.
 

LoyaltyisaCurse

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40yearfan said:
No I wouldn't fire them. If they had made it, it would have been at my request and I guarantee you I would screen it before it was shown (something I'm sure the 49ers management did). Then if it got out and a big brouhaha occured, it would be my problem and my responsibility.

When you have a close knit group like we have in this company, you don't have to be so PC minded. There is nothing unprofessional about comraderie or friendship when it comes to a group of people who have a genuine affection for each other. We had a safety meeting at noon today with 20 of our top people and the jokes/barbs were flying fast and furious.

When you fire someone just to satisfy public sentiment, you have done yourself and the person who was fired a great disservice. Life is filled with choices and when you compromise your values to assuage a preceived wrong doing, it greatly lessens you as a human being.

What if the tape seroiuslly hurt your business? I would think that at least 90% of companies--in their employee manuals-- have restrictions on using racial comments, sexual imagery and innuendo.

I know here at my work that is surely the case.

I agree with your comment about firing someone just to satisfy the public to a certain extent. Howerver, the biggest asset to any business is its public perception and once something is leaked to undermind that perception heads will roll, and I suspect It would also happen at your job.

49ers should have fired him right away, that is where club went wrong.
 

conraddobler

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40yearfan said:
No I wouldn't fire them. If they had made it, it would have been at my request and I guarantee you I would screen it before it was shown (something I'm sure the 49ers management did). Then if it got out and a big brouhaha occured, it would be my problem and my responsibility.

When you have a close knit group like we have in this company, you don't have to be so PC minded. There is nothing unprofessional about comraderie or friendship when it comes to a group of people who have a genuine affection for each other. We had a safety meeting at noon today with 20 of our top people and the jokes/barbs were flying fast and furious.

When you fire someone just to satisfy public sentiment, you have done yourself and the person who was fired a great disservice. Life is filled with choices and when you compromise your values to assuage a preceived wrong doing, it greatly lessens you as a human being.


Both yourself and Russ are making good points.

You are basically saying they threw him under the bus because he got caught in a bad situation.

Russ is saying some what the same thing in that being ok with it until it was leaked is wrong in of itself.

I agree with both of you however in the real world this happens all the time.

In the real world we live in now no one is going to take the bullet for this guy even his boss or his bosses boss that probably laughed at it and said heck yeah let's show it.

Never going to happen.
 

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conraddobler said:
No they aren't and they aren't horrified at Dave Chappel either but if you try their routines at a large corporation you will be fired within 15 seconds.

I on the whole agree with you, I think that PC'ness in a lot of cases is totally out of control. This issue I don't see so much as PC as pure stupidity.

True he did not intend the tape to leak or be shown outside the organization but that's hardly much of a defense once it did. His job is to make the team look good, he failed miserably so he got fired, that's what generally happens when you screw up that bad.

His main problem is that he allowed himself to be drug off by the PC mob, his own actions did, the tape might have been funny but it didn't have to be made.

I have myself seen good people ground up by this stuff and it goes way too far in certain instances, I agree on that part. This guy I don't feel really sorry for.

My final words on this issue. This company probably has only 300 people working for it. No way it qualifies as a large corporation.

His boss should have stood up for him and not "taken the easy way out".

Lamenting that a way of life from a kinder and gentler age is now gone and has been replaced with cynicism and feigned outrage over the least little thing.
 

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LoyaltyisaCurse said:
What if the tape seroiuslly hurt your business? I would think that at least 90% in their employee manuals have restrictions on using racial comments, sexual imagery and innuendo.

I know here at my work that is surely the case.

I agree with your comment about firing someone just to satisfy the public to a certain extent. Howerver, the biggest asset to any business is its public perception and once something is leaked to undermind that perception heads will roll, and I suspect It would also happen at your job.

49ers should have fired him right away, that is where club went wrong.

wouldn't an apology do?

Like 40 said
Then if it got out and a big brouhaha occured, it would be my problem and my responsibility.

10 months is an awfully long time to let this ride then axe the guy when everyone more than likely got a good chuckle at the PR dudes expense.

PC SUCKS!!!!!!
 

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40yearfan said:
My final words on this issue. This company probably has only 300 people working for it. No way it qualifies as a large corporation.

His boss should have stood up for him and not "taken the easy way out".

Lamenting that a way of life from a kinder and gentler age is now gone and has been replaced with cynicism and feigned outrage over the least little thing.


In terms of revenue and in that it sells to the general public it most certainly qualifies as a large corporation.

The problem here is that it is small in numbers of employees and probably hasn't had the experience that larger companies have had in being besieged by anyone who calls an attourney.

Large corporations today right now would have upchucked at the first showing of this and turned purple and fired the guy on the spot.

What we have here is a mixing of what you are talking about in terms of what goes at small companies and then contrasted by what flies if you get the general public involved. The general public in this case being the entire area of San Fran which is the fan base.

I just can't believe that people are that worried about this guy. Anyone in his position that stupid needs another line of work.

It was creative, maybe even funny, however it wasn't appropriate.
 

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LoyaltyisaCurse said:
What if the tape seroiuslly hurt your business? I would think that at least 90% of companies--in their employee manuals-- have restrictions on using racial comments, sexual imagery and innuendo.

I know here at my work that is surely the case.

I agree with your comment about firing someone just to satisfy the public to a certain extent. Howerver, the biggest asset to any business is its public perception and once something is leaked to undermind that perception heads will roll, and I suspect It would also happen at your job.

49ers should have fired him right away, that is where club went wrong.

My absolute last final word. :D

LIAC, they didn't fire him right away because they had no problem with it until the press decided it was wrong. If it wasn't wrong for the organization when it happened, it shouldn't be wrong today.

As far as it's being a public relations faux pas, how many season ticket holders do you think they'd lose over this issue? I'd be willing to bet the only people they'd lose were the ones who were looking for an excuse to get rid of their tickets. Would you give up your season tickets to the Cards if this happened to them?

This is a situation were the only people who were offended were people who had no direct contact with the club. It should be a non-issue.
 

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40yearfan said:
Lamenting that a way of life from a kinder and gentler age is now gone and has been replaced with cynicism and feigned outrage over the least little thing.

Everyone always wants to go back to the good ol' days, but the reality is there is no such thing.

The good ol' days is something different for each generation and I suspect in about 30-40 years teenagers will be looking at this time as the good ol'days.

The one thing that hasn't changed is that people who own or run business are not going to fire themselves therefore making it far more likely that those of us in management or lower positions are going to be held accountable and/or fired.
 

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40yearfan said:
My absolute last final word. :D

LIAC, they didn't fire him right away because they had no problem with it until the press decided it was wrong. If it wasn't wrong for the organization when it happened, it shouldn't be wrong today.

As far as it's being a public relations faux pas, how many season ticket holders do you think they'd lose over this issue? I'd be willing to bet the only people they'd lose were the ones who were looking for an excuse to get rid of their tickets. Would you give up your season tickets to the Cards if this happened to them?

This is a situation were the only people who were offended were people who had no direct contact with the club. It should be a non-issue.

Oh sure, none of the sponsors had any problem with it. Right. No one in the community except for the press had any problem with it. Oh sure. A 2-14 team should have just issued an apology. That makes sense. No one in the NFL office cared whatsoever. I see what you are saying.
 

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I just realized how funny this whole thing is based on the fact that Dennis Erickson was the coach when the tape was circulated. Fitting for a team he coached.
 

conraddobler

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40yearfan said:
My absolute last final word. :D

LIAC, they didn't fire him right away because they had no problem with it until the press decided it was wrong. If it wasn't wrong for the organization when it happened, it shouldn't be wrong today.

As far as it's being a public relations faux pas, how many season ticket holders do you think they'd lose over this issue? I'd be willing to bet the only people they'd lose were the ones who were looking for an excuse to get rid of their tickets. Would you give up your season tickets to the Cards if this happened to them?

This is a situation were the only people who were offended were people who had no direct contact with the club. It should be a non-issue.


Well football fans aren't generally a PC bunch, good point.

Still his job is public relations and by definition he should be invisible and mostly just make everyone feel good about the team.

He failed.

He failed at the point the tape became public and to me that's when he got the axe. I don't think in this one case where your job just happens to making the public happy happy joy joy about your employer that utterly booching that is a bad reason to can someone.

Maybe it was in poor taste and all but just letting it be leaked to me constitutes plenty of reason to fire him. He could have kept complete control of all copies of the tape and made sure it did not happen and if it was impossible to make sure it did not happen he shouldn't have made the tape.

I am pretty much on the 9ers side on this one.
 

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40yearfan said:
As far as it's being a public relations faux pas, how many season ticket holders do you think they'd lose over this issue? I'd be willing to bet the only people they'd lose were the ones who were looking for an excuse to get rid of their tickets. Would you give up your season tickets to the Cards if this happened to them?

This is a situation were the only people who were offended were people who had no direct contact with the club. It should be a non-issue.

That was the point Radnich(local sports guy channel 4) made, there's a long waiting list for season tix(although allegedly the last 2 bad years has shrunk the list). So let's say 1000 people are outraged and cancel their season tix, and I think that's an absurdly high number, the next 1000 people on the list(yes it's that long) would just buy those tix.

They might lose merchandise sales, but they might not.

Radnich said today that the same media folks outraged over this spent years making mafia jokes about the DeBartolo family, both privately and publicly, and that quite a few of them made comments about how Denise York was unfit to own an NFL team and many of those comments were based in part on the fact that she's a woman. Radnich is "the media" so he said if it's ok for us to say stuff like this, how can we with a straight face complain about this tape?

But I guess I do see the point folks are making that until it became public it wasn't a PR issue, but now that it is, the logical move is to fire the guy.
 

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40yearfan said:
My absolute last final word. :D

LIAC, they didn't fire him right away because they had no problem with it until the press decided it was wrong. If it wasn't wrong for the organization when it happened, it shouldn't be wrong today.

As far as it's being a public relations faux pas, how many season ticket holders do you think they'd lose over this issue? I'd be willing to bet the only people they'd lose were the ones who were looking for an excuse to get rid of their tickets. Would you give up your season tickets to the Cards if this happened to them?

This is a situation were the only people who were offended were people who had no direct contact with the club. It should be a non-issue.

The press did not decide what is wrong or right, the video was leaked to the press and they reported it.

This qualifies as news because it is a public business and is very ironic considering the fact that the video was intended to teach the players ways not to embarrass the organization.

The 49ers were wrong in wating this long, but I am not surprised by the move.
 
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LoyaltyisaCurse

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conraddobler said:
Well football fans aren't generally a PC bunch, good point.

Still his job is public relations and by definition he should be invisible and mostly just make everyone feel good about the team.

He failed.

He failed at the point the tape became public and to me that's when he got the axe. I don't think in this one case where your job just happens to making the public happy happy joy joy about your employer that utterly booching that is a bad reason to can someone.

Maybe it was in poor taste and all but just letting it be leaked to me constitutes plenty of reason to fire him. He could have kept complete control of all copies of the tape and made sure it did not happen and if it was impossible to make sure it did not happen he shouldn't have made the tape.

I am pretty much on the 9ers side on this one.

:thumbup:
 

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So today's news on this. Reynolds has profusely apologized, said he realized he made a mistake, and then threw Terry Donahue under the bus saying Donahue "vowed to get me" after he was run out of town and he said Donahue showed snippets of the video to John York in January which resulted in a reprimand for Reynolds, apparently that wasn't enough for Donahue so he then sent the video to the local media which got Reynolds fired. That's Reynolds theory and Julian Peterson (who appears in the video) backs him. IT's interesting that the 49ers official stance is that anybody who appeared in or worked on the video has been disciplined and will be removed from the organization, does that include Julian Peterson?

Tim Kawakami talked about the stuff regarding Asians, the guy doing the mock Chinese accent last name is Chung, and the guy filming the video is Asian too, but Kawakami notes it doesn't matter how many Asians were involved at least one Asian group was so offended they are collecting 100,000 signatures from angry constituents to send to the 49ers.

A former employee (a trainer) said that Reynolds helped him a couple of years ago when he publicly came out as gay. It was right after Garrison Hearst said he didn't want any gays on his team and got crucified in the local media. The trainer apparently offered to go public on behalf of the team to try and soften the blow and let gay rights organizations know that Hearst's comments did not = the view of the whole organization. York told him he didn't need to do that, and the guy involved said it was Reynolds he discussed it with at length, he says Reynolds isn't homophobic at all. He said Reynolds knew about his sexual orientation long before he went public with it, never told anybody, and went out of his way to make him feel comfortable in an NFL lockerroom which he said was not easy.

The video was supposed to be a training video on what not to say or do, like the sexual harassment videos we've probably all seen at work that act out scenes and ask if it's harassment or not. Reynolds clearly went WAY too far in the video but Peterson is the one who pointed out that there's even a disclaimer at the beginning of the video that says this is a satire, a dramatization, it's not real and it's not meant to be taken as real(not the exact words). He said every 49er member who saw the video understood it was satire but he realizes how it could have offended people when it became public because they've only seen or heard snippets of it, not seen the whole thing so they're getting it out of context.

Gary Radnich who earlier yesterday was ripping the 49ers for being 2 faced was on tv last night saying it's done, it's over, the video was appalling, the guy deserved to be fired, that's it. I can't recall him ever doing a complete 180 like that on anything before, I wonder if someone told him he wouldn't get access to the team if he didn't shut up, or if is his employers, KRON 4, told him enough is enough shut up?
 

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Russ Smith said:
So today's news on this. Reynolds has profusely apologized, said he realized he made a mistake, and then threw Terry Donahue under the bus saying Donahue "vowed to get me" after he was run out of town and he said Donahue showed snippets of the video to John York in January which resulted in a reprimand for Reynolds, apparently that wasn't enough for Donahue so he then sent the video to the local media which got Reynolds fired. That's Reynolds theory and Julian Peterson (who appears in the video) backs him. IT's interesting that the 49ers official stance is that anybody who appeared in or worked on the video has been disciplined and will be removed from the organization, does that include Julian Peterson?

Tim Kawakami talked about the stuff regarding Asians, the guy doing the mock Chinese accent last name is Chung, and the guy filming the video is Asian too, but Kawakami notes it doesn't matter how many Asians were involved at least one Asian group was so offended they are collecting 100,000 signatures from angry constituents to send to the 49ers.

A former employee (a trainer) said that Reynolds helped him a couple of years ago when he publicly came out as gay. It was right after Garrison Hearst said he didn't want any gays on his team and got crucified in the local media. The trainer apparently offered to go public on behalf of the team to try and soften the blow and let gay rights organizations know that Hearst's comments did not = the view of the whole organization. York told him he didn't need to do that, and the guy involved said it was Reynolds he discussed it with at length, he says Reynolds isn't homophobic at all. He said Reynolds knew about his sexual orientation long before he went public with it, never told anybody, and went out of his way to make him feel comfortable in an NFL lockerroom which he said was not easy.

The video was supposed to be a training video on what not to say or do, like the sexual harassment videos we've probably all seen at work that act out scenes and ask if it's harassment or not. Reynolds clearly went WAY too far in the video but Peterson is the one who pointed out that there's even a disclaimer at the beginning of the video that says this is a satire, a dramatization, it's not real and it's not meant to be taken as real(not the exact words). He said every 49er member who saw the video understood it was satire but he realizes how it could have offended people when it became public because they've only seen or heard snippets of it, not seen the whole thing so they're getting it out of context.

Gary Radnich who earlier yesterday was ripping the 49ers for being 2 faced was on tv last night saying it's done, it's over, the video was appalling, the guy deserved to be fired, that's it. I can't recall him ever doing a complete 180 like that on anything before, I wonder if someone told him he wouldn't get access to the team if he didn't shut up, or if is his employers, KRON 4, told him enough is enough shut up?

So the guy who was fired wasn't the one who gave the video to the press. His boss did? Must be a nice atmosphere to work in.
 

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40yearfan said:
So the guy who was fired wasn't the one who gave the video to the press. His boss did? Must be a nice atmosphere to work in.

That's REynolds' theory and the bay area media all agrees that it was almost assuredly Donahue who "leaked" the video to the media. Remember he got an extension, and then was fired 4 months later, he apparently blames Reynolds, said the PR guy had a vendetta against him and went out of his way to make Donahue look bad.

IT's an ugly mess, Nolan has been quite openly happy with Reynolds, thinks he's been instrumental in turning the tide on public opinion(that the team was too cheap to win now) and now he has to take the company line and blast the guy for the video. York has now admitted he reprimanded Reynolds in January for this but didn't fire him then because it wasn't public, so if it was Donahue that leaked it, he did it to get Reynolds fired.

I'm sure the tape will be on Ebay shortly.
 

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One edit to my first post today, I misread Kawakami's piece, he said IF there was a disclaimer and everyone knew about , not that there was one. So when Peterson said everyone knew it was sarcasm, he wasn't saying it was because of a disclaimer, just that they all knew that it was meant to be tongue in cheek.

Sorry, read the story too early in the day and completely missed the IF in Kawami's bit.
 

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