6/16/2005 Insider - Graham stands out as the camp's best athlete

[elindholm]

That word is thrown around far too often. It's not untrue that the bodies of every race vary genetically, and pointing that out is not racist.

You need to review the precise context of what I was responding to. Of course I am aware that there are physical differences between races. Furthermore, I said in an earlier post (in a different thread) that, for whatever reason, black players tend to develop their athleticism more while white players tend to work on "skills."

Read carefully what real question cheesebeef was asking, and my response will make more sense.

 

[myrondizzo]

Moses Malone (granted, a center who won a championship in '82, but close enough).

then mchale was a white PF that contributed to a championship team.

 

[Cheesebeef]

then mchale was a white PF that contributed to a championship team.

different era of b-ball. That was 20 years ago.

 

[Kolo]

Read carefully what real question cheesebeef was asking, and my response will make more sense.

I got it.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

so you think it's really just racism versus past performance of similar type players?

It's actually past performance of the player in question why he's a borderline 1st round pick, not said player's race.

 

[elindholm]

In case any other Angelenos are curious, I also felt the earthquake. Pretty heavy rumbling for about 10 seconds, but nothing more dramatic than that. I tried to report on that site, but once I got everything entered in the page crashed, so F that.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It's actually past performance of the player in question why he's a borderline 1st round pick, not said player's race.

come on though - Antonio McDyess was considered an "underachiever" in college... never dominated... who people thought would flourish in the pro game - similar build, skills - yet he was taken with the 2nd pick.

 

[Cheesebeef]

In case any other Angelenos are curious, I also felt the earthquake. Pretty heavy rumbling for about 10 seconds, but nothing more dramatic than that. I tried to report on that site, but once I got everything entered in the page crashed, so F that.

I've only lived here 10 years or so, but I can't remember there ever being a time when there were two feelable (I know that's not a word) quakes within 5 days of each other, as well as another big one up in the Northern Cali - has that happened before? 3 around the state within a week's time?

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

come on though - Antonio McDyess was considered an "underachiever" in college... never dominated... who people thought would flourish in the pro game - similar build, skills - yet he was taken with the 2nd pick.

Dice averaged a double-double in a tougher SEC as a sophomore then declared for the NBA. Lee couldn't do that in four years at Florida in a much weaker SEC.

 

[PhxGametime]

Cheese, do you expect with the starting line-up intact to find any type of Prospect to lead team to Finals... the team is looking for role players and I'm sure if I wanted to I could find role players on those Championship teams or contenders.

I believe there's a few people here, that were saying the team ain't gonna get jack at #21 but now the team needs someone to lead them to Title?



Keith Van Horn was the PF for the Nets teams in Finals all those years and he might not be great but he had a big role on those teams...

 

[elindholm]

I've only lived here 10 years or so, but I can't remember there ever being a time when there were two feelable (I know that's not a word) quakes within 5 days of each other, as well as another big one up in the Northern Cali - has that happened before? 3 around the state within a week's time?

I don't remember any previous case either, but I'm not sure I would, if it were several years ago. I'll bet the earthquake scientists are in sharp disagreement about whether this means a "big one" is coming or not -- sometimes they say that smaller quakes relieve fault tension and make big events less likely.

 

[myrondizzo]

yeah - and what does "contender" mean - it sure doens't mean Champion as you have changed the subject - were the Suns not title contenders this year? Were the T-Wolves not contenders last year with the best record in the West - or the Pacers with the best record in the league? I think that's pretty consistent with "contributing to title contenders in the last 15 years" don't you?

if we are already a title contending team(which i think we are) then what does it matter if we add 5 white stiffs? and there are plenty of examples of white guys coming off the bench on those teams and helping out then.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Dice averaged a double-double in a tougher SEC as a sophomore then declared for the NBA. Lee couldn't do that in four years at Florida in a much weaker SEC.

touche - did he really average a double-double? That's pretty impressiv efor a college player.

But I ask this - if the guy was a dissapointment at the collegiate level where the caliber of athlete is much less than at the NBA, why do people think he'd fare better against much better competition?(note - I'm not trying to defelct on the race issue - it's pretty much beat to a bloody pulp - so let's talk about the player). Workout warriors have never impressed me - you gotta be able to produce and show the type of skills this kid has in order to hope for him to be a contributor IMO.

 

[Cheesebeef]

if we are already a title contending team(which i think we are) then what does it matter if we add 5 white stiffs? and there are plenty of examples of white guys coming off the bench on those teams and helping out then.

white PFs - like who? I asked that question in the other thread and never got an answer. If you could show some to me, I'd probably change my mind but since I can't remember any, that is why I have the opinion I do.

 

[elindholm]

white PFs - like who?

If you're just talking role players, you'd have to count Mark Madsen. Among teams that made the Finals (but didn't win), there's Aaron Williams and, uh, probably some other ones, give me a little while. Go down to the conference finals and you have Pollard as a prominent example.

Those players might have been playing center, but they were "really" PFs, and PFs get pressed into backup C duty all the time, no matter what their skin color.

 

[MaoTosiFanClub]

touche - did he really average a double-double? That's pretty impressiv efor a college player.

But I ask this - if the guy was a dissapointment at the collegiate level where the caliber of athlete is much less than at the NBA, why do people think he'd fare better against much better competition?(note - I'm not trying to defelct on the race issue - it's pretty much beat to a bloody pulp - so let's talk about the player). Workout warriors have never impressed me - you gotta be able to produce and show the type of skills this kid has in order to hope for him to be a contributor IMO.

I've just as against drafting this guy as you are except I'm not bringing his whiteness into it. Lee is obviously an athletic freak, that's probably why he was a Mickey D's AA and so highly sought after coming out of HS. The problem is, he never distinguished himself at Florida. To me that's a problem because if he's this hugely impressive athlete, then how come he wasn't that great of a college player?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Cheese, do you expect with the starting line-up intact to find any type of Prospect to lead team to Finals... the team is looking for role players and I'm sure if I wanted to I could find role players on those Championship teams or contenders.

I believe there's a few people here, that were saying the team ain't gonna get jack at #21 but now the team needs someone to lead them to Title?



Keith Van Horn was the PF for the Nets teams in Finals all those years and he might not be great but he had a big role on those teams...

ugh - where did I say ANYWHERE about getting a guy at 21 to LEAD this team? You try and change the subject, but it's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about merrely being a contributor - there is a HUGE difference between "leading" and merely contributing.

As far as those Nets teams - come on Bball - playing in the weakest conference we've ever seen does not mean a team is a title contender - A 50 win team at that. Hell - everyone on this forum and in the world continually said that team was no more than a 4 or 5 seed if put in the West - then got completely destroyed by the Lakers, shipped KVH stiff ass off the team and then, once he was gone - actually put up a fight against SA the next year - again proving my point.

 

[Chaplin]

ugh - where did I say ANYWHERE about getting a guy at 21 to LEAD this team? You try and change the subject, but it's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about merrely being a contributor - there is a HUGE difference between "leading" and merely contributing.

As far as those Nets teams - come on Bball - playing in the weakest conference we've ever seen does not mean a team is a title contender - A 50 win team at that. Hell - everyone on this forum and in the world continually said that team was no more than a 4 or 5 seed if put in the West - then got completely destroyed by the Lakers, shipped KVH stiff ass off the team and then, once he was gone - actually put up a fight against SA the next year - again proving my point.

What point? That KVH is a bad player because he can't play basketball very well, or KVH is a bad player because he's white?

Would you rather have KVH or Walter McCarty?

 

[Cheesebeef]

white PFs - like who?

If you're just talking role players, you'd have to count Mark Madsen. Among teams that made the Finals (but didn't win), there's Aaron Williams and, uh, probably some other ones, give me a little while. Go down to the conference finals and you have Pollard as a prominent example.

Those players might have been playing center, but they were "really" PFs, and PFs get pressed into backup C duty all the time, no matter what their skin color.

Mark Madsen? When? The only time he got playing time with the Lakers was the year SA dumped their asses on the ground in the 2nd round. The year the Lakers sucked - barley won 50 games.

Aaron Williams - again you bring up a guy on a Nets team that was anything but a title contender. Are you really telling me that team had a chance against the Lakers/Nets - besides - I thought Aaron William was African-American - I could be wrong.

As far as Pollard - the guy was 6'11 - two inches taller than Lee and WAS a C - not a good one - but that is what he played. Although Pollard is probably the best example you gave.

 

[Cheesebeef]

What point? That KVH is a bad player because he can't play basketball very well, or KVH is a bad player because he's white?

Would you rather have KVH or Walter McCarty?

my point is that KVH is a soft white stiff, fitting the profile.

As far as the comparison - I'd rather have KVH - but it wouldn't make us one bit better than we are now - but then again - I'd rather have nothing than Walter - he sucked ass.

 

[Cheesebeef]

What point? That KVH is a bad player because he can't play basketball very well, or KVH is a bad player because he's white?

The POINT Chap was that he brought up an example to refute my premise that didn't have any merit because the Nets weren't title contenders (and if you argue differently, you know you're doing so in jest). That was the point.

 

[myrondizzo]

Mark Madsen? When? The only time he got playing time with the Lakers was the year SA dumped their asses on the ground in the 2nd round. The year the Lakers sucked - barley won 50 games.

Aaron Williams - again you bring up a guy on a Nets team that was anything but a title contender. Are you really telling me that team had a chance against the Lakers/Nets - besides - I thought Aaron William was African-American - I could be wrong.

As far as Pollard - the guy was 6'11 - two inches taller than Lee and WAS a C - not a good one - but that is what he played. Although Pollard is probably the best example you gave.

jeff foster not greatbut could have help off the bech.

 

[Cheesebeef]

jeff foster not greatbut could have help off the bech.

okay - that's a somewhat decent example. This team could probably use a Jeff Foster type. I was trying to remember, thinking the Jazz HAD to have someone fitting the mold but couldn't remember. Was he a 7 footer though? 6'11/ I know two inches may not sound like a lot, but it is. Decent example.

Oh wait - you were talking about Jeff Foster on the Pacers - doh! He's 6'11 - there's abig difference there. I wouldn't mind him on this club.

Who was the annoying Foster on the Jazz with the goatie? I think he was more 6'11 as well though.

 

[Cheesebeef]

And this is just out of curiosity - was Aaron Williams white?

 

[myrondizzo]

And this is just out of curiosity - was Aaron Williams white?

we could start a thread white or black
jason kidd?
tony parker?
aaron williams?