7/12/2005 Insider - Dalembert, Chandler, Curry sitting and waiting.

sunsfn

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Updated: July 12, 2005, 4:46 PM ET
Dalembert, Chandler, Curry sitting and waiting
By Chad Ford

So far during this free agency season, the guards are getting most of the love, while the big men sit and watch.

There are at least five reasons for this reversal of the usual state of affairs:

First, the quality of the guards available has exceeded that of the frontcourt players. All-Stars Ray Allen and Michael Redd along with Larry Hughes, Joe Johnson and reigning Most Improved Player Bobby Simmons have drawn great interest and have big offers lined up.

Second, some of the teams in the market for big men are not in a financial position, thanks to the salary cap, to make moves at this point, especially Dallas, New York and Los Angeles.

Third, the best bigs this year are restricted free agents, which means the urgency to make a deal is lower, thanks to the moratorium on signing free agents (which is scheduled to end July 22) and the fact that teams have to wait seven days to see if the player is theirs.

Fourth, most of the top big men available will be retained by their current teams, if we believe those teams when they say they will match any offer their free agents receive.

Fifth, the Hawks. Instead of making reasonable attempts to sign free agents who would want to play in Atlanta, Billy Knight, the Hawks' GM, wasted his time and energy on Ray Allen, Zydrunas Ilgauskas and others who would never consider going to the bottom-feeding Hawks.

Now, however, as most of the big-time guards have been taken off the board, the market is heating up, thanks to Knight and other GMs. We have our first major deal for a big man, as the Cleveland Cavaliers have retained Ilgauskas for five years at an estimated $55-60 million.

Next up: younger, more athletic but less proven restricted free agents such as Samuel Dalembert of the Philadelphia 76ers, and Tyson Chandler and Eddy Curry of the Chicago Bulls.

These teams have been slow to re-sign these guys, but as the Hawks get active -- and perhaps the Seattle SuperSonics and New Orleans Hornets do too -- with their available dollars under the salary cap, the Sixers and Bulls may also jump into the ring.

Insider made some calls around the league during the past few days and offers this status report.



Samuel Dalembert: Of the three top big men on the market, Dalembert has the most upside. He has great range and is athletic, with great shot blocking instincts. He's shown he can be a volume rebounder and his offensive game is emerging. He was very inconsistent at times this season, but in the playoffs against the Pistons, he played the part of a franchise center. Will he get paid like one?

The Sixers made a power move this offseason, firing head coach Jim O'Brien (who wasn't a Dalembert fan) and replacing him with Mo Cheeks (who is). Philly let it be known that O'Brien was fired, in part, because the Sixers are committed to Dalembert. That's been enough to discourage other teams from pursuing Dalembert. Almost every GM in the league that Insider talked to believes Philadelphia would match even a max offer.

Don't be so sure. The Sixers have been meeting with Dalembert's agent but have been unable to strike a deal. Philly apparently has drawn a line in the sand millions away from a max-type offer. Dalembert, who's had a rocky four years, with four different coaches in just the last two years, isn't impressed.

The Hawks and Sonics are both big fans of Dalembert and have the money to offer big dollars. Other teams, like the Knicks, are willing to do sign-and-trades.

Tyson Chandler: Chandler is younger than Dalembert and has produced at about the same rate or better, especially when he's been healthy. He's a better rebounder than Dalembert and a superior overall defender. The fact that he's a legit 7-foot-2 and has a tremendous work ethic also helps his cause. But questions about his back and his lack of an offensive game have raised questions about Chander's value in free agency.

It's also widely believed that the Bulls will match any offer for Chandler. He's a favorite of Chicago GM John Paxson and the Bulls know they can't afford to lose both Chandler and Curry this summer. If Paxson has to choose, Chandler is the guy.

The problem for Chandler is getting a team such as Atlanta or Seattle to make a move for him. While those teams have shown polite interest, none has been willing to offer the big deal it would take for Chicago to think twice.

Meanwhile, Chandler continues to wait for the Bulls to make a big offer. He is hoping that Dalembert will cut a lucrative deal, setting the market. As it stands right now, both remain in limbo.

If the Bulls' offer does not rise significantly this summer, look for Chandler to sign his one-year tender offer and become an unrestricted free agent next summer.

Eddy Curry: Curry is the hardest free agent of the three to project. Offensively, he's light-years ahead of both Dalembert and Chandler. But he's also the shortest of the group, a listless defender and, at best, an ordinary rebounder. That he's struggled with his weight over the years and a mysterious heart ailment recently hasn't helped his cause.

Curry is still waiting for an offer from the Bulls. He's spent the past few weeks in Chicago, working out with Michael Jordan's former trainer, Tim Grover, to get back into playing shape.

Of the other teams, the Hawks have shown the most interest in Curry and invited him to visit this week. However, Curry balked until he could get in better shape.

While Paxson maintains that the team wants to re-sign Curry, the GMs Insider spoke with all believe the Bulls are posturing. The Bulls don't want him back if he's going to command a big salary and are hoping that they can work out a sign-and-trade that gets them something back in return. The rumor has been that a Curry-for-Al Harrington swap might be the final resolution of the Eddy Curry era in Chicago.




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JPlay

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Yeah I know he's athletic, can run, shot blocks and rebounds. Perfect center for us, but the Suns don't see the need to get a true center.

I think Chandler's back problems scare teams.
 

F-Dog

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JPlay said:
I want Chandler

We should really get Chandler and Dalembert, though.

They could fight it out for the last big-man spot in the Suns' rotation.
 

JCSunsfan

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Oh what the heck, this is just coming off the top of my head right now. Since people are now talking of JJ's abilities in the same class with Kobe and T-Mac (not there but has the potential to get there).

JJ and Voshkul

for

Chandler and Deng

Then sign Finley.

Nash, Barbosa
Finley, Jim J, Bell
Marion, Deng
KT, Chandler
Amare, Chandler

That team right there is interesting, but not nearly the fast-breaking team we had last year.

Flame away
 

ASUCHRIS

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No way they give up Chandler and Deng, although I would do it in a second. (As long as Chandler isn't making more than 6 a year...)
 

Treesquid PhD

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seems pretty simple to me why don't we just get Dalembert, Chandler, Curry, Garnett, Duncan and Shaq. This would be really easy to do but I guess the Suns don't want a center.
 

George O'Brien

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Treesquid said:
seems pretty simple to me why don't we just get Dalembert, Chandler, Curry, Garnett, Duncan and Shaq. This would be really easy to do but I guess the Suns don't want a center.

The Suns don't want to add a center with minimal offensive skills and/or unwilling to work hard on the boards.
 

asudevil83

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JCSunsfan said:
Oh what the heck, this is just coming off the top of my head right now. Since people are now talking of JJ's abilities in the same class with Kobe and T-Mac (not there but has the potential to get there).

JJ and Voshkul

for

Chandler and Deng

Then sign Finley.

Nash, Barbosa
Finley, Jim J, Bell
Marion, Deng
KT, Chandler
Amare, Chandler

That team right there is interesting, but not nearly the fast-breaking team we had last year.

Flame away

How about JJ/Barbs for Chandler/Deng?

Send Voskuhl to Atlanta for a second rounder.

Then, Marion for Igoudala/Mashburn (solely for cap purposes).

Then, nab Hunter for that LLE.

Finally, sign Finley to vet min.

Chandler/Hunter
Amare/Thomas
Deng/JJax
Igoudala/Finley
Nash/Bell

granted, that hurt our chances at a championship next season but we'd be extremely competative. the possibilities in the future are ENDLESS. we would definately be the funnest team in the league to watch. we'd have 4 GREAT guys....Amare (22), Chandler (22), Deng (20), Iggy (21). if that's not a core, then i dont know what the hell is. each of them excel at something different. Amare (scoring), Chandler (rebounding and defense), Deng (all-around), Iggy (defense). the great thing is that they'd be locked up for the next 3 years at least.

the BEST thing is that the payroll stays in check, and we dont have to worry about dumping contracts like we have been for a LONG TIME.

2005/2006 payroll hits $54.7mil.....definately within the limites of Sarver. but it gets better.
2006/2007 we drop to $48.5mil (that's with Amare's MAX, $13mil or so). Both Mashburn and Eisley are gone.....and we'd still have 9 players under contract. we'd definately be willing to drop the MLE on a quality FA.
2007/2008 everything is fine. as it looks now, we'd have 8 players and sitting at $53.5mil. we'd have to think about re-locking up Deng and Iggy because they'd be in the last year of their rookie contracts, but that shouldnt be a problem. Kurt would be in the final year of his contract, so that's $8mil gone.
2008/2009 Nash is expiring. the new contracts of Deng and Iggy would be kicking in. we would be in a great position, because we'd only have one year of semi-bad contracts with Nash/Amare/Chandler/Iggy/Deng. Both Deng's and Iggy's would be rather small.

granted, i calculated the probability of those first trades happening and found that it was somewhere around 1-827. not bad....but certainly not good.
 
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sunsfn

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asudevil83 said:
How about JJ/Barbs for Chandler/Deng?

Send Voskuhl to Atlanta for a second rounder.

Then, Marion for Igoudala/Mashburn (solely for cap purposes).

Then, nab Hunter for that LLE.

Finally, sign Finley to vet min.

Chandler/Hunter
Amare/Thomas
Deng/JJax
Igoudala/Finley
Nash/Bell

granted, that hurt our chances at a championship next season but we'd be extremely competative. the possibilities in the future are ENDLESS. we would definately be the funnest team in the league to watch. we'd have 4 GREAT guys....Amare (22), Chandler (22), Deng (20), Iggy (21). if that's not a core, then i dont know what the hell is. each of them excel at something different. Amare (scoring), Chandler (rebounding and defense), Deng (all-around), Iggy (defense). the great thing is that they'd be locked up for the next 3 years at least.

the BEST thing is that the payroll stays in check, and we dont have to worry about dumping contracts like we have been for a LONG TIME.

2005/2006 payroll hits $54.7mil.....definately within the limites of Sarver. but it gets better.
2006/2007 we drop to $48.5mil (that's with Amare's MAX, $13mil or so). Both Mashburn and Eisley are gone.....and we'd still have 9 players under contract. we'd definately be willing to drop the MLE on a quality FA.
2007/2008 everything is fine. as it looks now, we'd have 8 players and sitting at $53.5mil. we'd have to think about re-locking up Deng and Iggy because they'd be in the last year of their rookie contracts, but that shouldnt be a problem. Kurt would be in the final year of his contract, so that's $8mil gone.
2008/2009 Nash is expiring. the new contracts of Deng and Iggy would be kicking in. we would be in a great position, because we'd only have one year of semi-bad contracts with Nash/Amare/Chandler/Iggy/Deng. Both Deng's and Iggy's would be rather small.

granted, i calculated the probability of those first trades happening and found that it was somewhere around 1-827. not bad....but certainly not good.

My G.... how much time did you waste doing this? :)


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asudevil83

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sunsfn said:
My G.... how much time did you waste doing this? :)


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actually about 5min. calculating this stuff is REALLY easy with Excel. i've got a spreadsheet with the Hoopshype salaries in it, so it takes a matter of seconds to replace salaries and stuff.

You must be registered for see images
 
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bankybruce

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JCSunsfan said:
Oh what the heck, this is just coming off the top of my head right now. Since people are now talking of JJ's abilities in the same class with Kobe and T-Mac (not there but has the potential to get there).

JJ and Voshkul

for

Chandler and Deng

Voshkul was already in Chicago, and they did not like him and why would Chicago want JJ, there is a guy names Ben Gordon that Chicago loves, and there is not way Deng will ever be given up, sorry. Being a Bulls fan, Chandler, Deng, Hinrich, Gordon, Duhon, and Nocioni(maybe) are untouchable at this time, Paxson will not mess with that core. Curry is a question, I can see a sign and trade for him, but I do not see him in Chicago next year.
 

Gaddabout

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bankybruce said:
Voshkul was already in Chicago, and they did not like him and why would Chicago want JJ, there is a guy names Ben Gordon that Chicago loves, and there is not way Deng will ever be given up, sorry. Being a Bulls fan, Chandler, Deng, Hinrich, Gordon, Duhon, and Nocioni(maybe) are untouchable at this time, Paxson will not mess with that core. Curry is a question, I can see a sign and trade for him, but I do not see him in Chicago next year.

I think the Bulls would give up Deng and Chandler for a player like JJ in a heartbeat, I just don't think the Suns would be crazy enough to do that. Voshkuhl would be a contract for more tradebait or something to let expire for more play money next season. JJ would become an instant impact at the 3 for the Bulls and probably make them a plausible challenger for Detroit, considering the other talent on that team.
 

JCSunsfan

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bankybruce said:
Being a Bulls fan, Chandler, Deng, Hinrich, Gordon, Duhon, and Nocioni(maybe) are untouchable at this time, Paxson will not mess with that core.

Six untouchable players on one team--and none of them all-stars? Quite remarkable.
 

bankybruce

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JCSunsfan said:
Six untouchable players on one team--and none of them all-stars? Quite remarkable.

Considering they made the payoffs for the first time in 7 years with that core of very young players, yes untouchable at this point until he finds out what hes got with them. Plus Paxon said they were untouchable and he will do what ever he needs to to keep them, so yes, they are untouchable at this point, unless a true superstar came up for a trade, and Sam Smith asked Paxson if there was truth the a KG for Hindrich, Gordon and Curry trade, and he said if there was he was not listening. That is waying a lot. Who says that need to be a allstar to be untouchable anyway, I prefer those core of guys over 1 or 2 of them and a allstar.
 

Joe Mama

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I'm with BankyBruce. There's no way the Chicago Bulls would trade Chandler and Deng for JJ. I just don't think they would give up Chandler (even if he is going to be overpaid) and Deng (in only the second year of his rookie contract) for the opportunity to overpay a good swingman like JJ.

I doubt all those players are really untouchable. Chicago just isn't going to give up Chandler and Deng, so they can pay JJ $14 million per season.

BTW I think the Chicago Bulls are going to be feeling the same way the Phoenix Suns do right now pretty soon. Same goes for the Philadelphia 76ers. I think Atlanta is going to make some big-time offers to Dalembert, Chandler, and possibly Curry until they land at least one of them.

Joe
 

bankybruce

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Joe Mama said:
I doubt all those players are really untouchable. Chicago just isn't going to give up Chandler and Deng, so they can pay JJ $14 million per season.

All I am syaing is if you take in account how much they make and their age and production, and since he does not now how good they are going to be and unless it is a very, very good deal, they will not be moved and IMO JJ is a nice player, but he would not warrent a trade. So to me unless the Heat is going to offer up Shaq and Wade, Paxson will hold off and see where these young guys will take him and after takeing the team over and there only being 2 players from before he took over, Curry and Chandler, he will wait before considering any trades for those guys, of course that IMO
 

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The Hawks should offer big contracts to Chandler AND Curry... they could land one of em... not that I think highly of them, but making the Bulls match on both with high contracts, they have a better shot.


I do feel bad for that teams fans, Marvin Williams is pretty good but I just don't think he has a high a ceiling that many believe, but maybe they wanted to make a Trade... because I would've got a PG with Pick.


Deron Williams
ton of wings
Josh Smith
Al Harrington
With capspace go after the premiere bigs


I'd rather Deron Williams than Marbury, and I never had a problem with Marbury (you start to notice things, like how he dominated ball after, but I liked em while here)... D Williams could be a stud, if not Chris Paul/Raymond Felton. All 3 are that good, those 3 are probably my choices for best Picks. Although Danny Granger could be a steal where he landed...
 

SweetD

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:thud: OMG lets just trade Amare for Duncan and Manu
 

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