9/9/2004 Insider

sunsfn

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Thursday, September 9, 2004

By Chad Ford
ESPN Insider

The summer of 2004 will forever be remembered for a number of things. More than 100 players changed teams this offseason. In the process, NBA free agents garnered an unprecedented billion-plus dollars in contracts from owners who claim they have no money. Our U.S. Olympic team failed to get the gold for the first time since Team USA began using NBA players. Kobe Bryant's long legal saga finally came to end.
But for my money nothing will have a bigger impact on the 2004-05 season than the trade demands of two NBA superstars. When Tracy McGrady told the Magic in June that he would opt out of his contract at the end of the season if the Magic didn't trade him and when Shaquille O'Neal threatened after the Finals to bolt the Lakers at the end of the season if he wasn't moved . . . the wheels of change began turning.
This was the summer of the trade demand. NBA superstars fed up with losing, constant personnel changes, team chemistry problems or just looking for some more cash began screaming that they wouldn't take it anymore. NBA owners and GMs, frightened by the prospect of a growing P.R. disaster, capitulated.
Neither the Magic nor the Lakers got full value for their superstars. Teams rarely do when a superstar demands a trade.
The Magic traded away arguably the best wing in the NBA for a point guard coming off the worst season in his career, an undersized two guard who shot 42 percent from the field and an overpaid big guy who averaged a whopping six points and six rebounds a game.
The Lakers got back more, but was it enough? GM Mitch Kupchak shipped out the most dominant big man in the game by a mile and got back an aging center with bad knees, a budding, versatile wing and a second year small forward coming off a disastrous injury filled season. Lamar Odom and Caron Butler might both prove to be All-Stars down the road, but will they ever equal Shaq?
T-Mac and Shaq's trade demands, coupled with their teams' willingness to accommodate them, opened the floodgates. Several other players including Kenyon Martin (in a sign-and-trade), Al Harrington, Jason Terry and Dikembe Mutombo have been granted their trade wishes.


Stojakovic, right, wants to barge out of Sacramento unless "changes" are made.
A number of other top players throughout the league including Peja Stojakovic, Jason Kidd, Baron Davis, Vince Carter, Shareef Abdur-Rahim and Gary Payton have also threatened, in one form or another, to walk this summer if their various demands were not met.
What gives? Agents are asking their players if they are happy where they're at for the next six or seven years. With a new collective bargaining agreement being negotiated, there's a good chance that the rules regarding unrestricted free agency and trades will become more restrictive. If player wants out of a situation, now is the time to make it happen. It might be much harder to change teams after next summer.
T-Mac and Shaq both understood this, which is partly why they wanted out now -- before their respective teams had a chance to prove to them that they could turn it around. The reasons vary for the rest of the group. Some want more playing time. Others don't like their teammates. A few more are concerned about the direction their team is heading.
With less than a month to go before training camps, will any of the players with outstanding trade demands get their wish? Insider breaks it down.

Peja Stojakovic, SF, Kings

What's the beef? Stojakovic is still fuming over Chris Webber's tirade after the Kings lost in the playoffs. For most of the season, Stojakovic was a legit MVP candidate as Webber sat on the bench nursing a sore knee. When CWebb returned, the Kings free-flowing offense ground to a halt, the chemistry the team had enjoyed all season disappeared and Stojakovic's numbers, especially in the playoffs, plummeted. Webber insinuated afterward that Stojakovic and Vlade Divac weren't hard workers (a ludicrous claim coming from a guy who's constantly hurt). Within weeks the Kings decided not to re-sign Divac, Stojakovic's mentor, instead giving more money to Greg Ostertag. From there, Stojakovic had enough and asked the Maloof brothers to trade him.
Will he be traded? It doesn't look like it. Stojakovic talked with the Maloof brothers by phone two weeks ago and they told him they had no intention of trading him. Stojakovic's agent, SFX's David Bauman, told Insider on Wednesday that Peja isn't going to force the matter. "He has two more years left on his contract and he's going to honor them," Bauman told Insider. "He still hopes that the Kings will listen to him and grant his wish, but he understands this is a business. Sometimes players and teams just need a change. Peja loves the Kings and wouldn't mind finishing his career there if other changes were made." While Bauman wouldn't get into it, it's clear that those "other changes" mean the Kings dumping CWebb -- something that's almost impossible given the four years, $78 million still left on Webber's contract. A number of teams, including the Pacers and Suns, have made pitches for Stojakovic but the Kings aren't budging. Stojakovic is one of the great bargains in the NBA and the team's best shooter. If team chemistry continues to disintegrate during the season, then the Kings might look more seriously at a trade, but right now they feel like this issue can be worked out.

Jason Kidd, PG, Nets

What's the beef? When Kidd signed a six year contract with the Nets last summer, the team was on the verge of an NBA championship. Alonzo Mourning, who signed alongside Kidd, was supposed to be the missing piece of the puzzle. Since then it's all gone downhill for Kidd and the Nets. Mourning's kidney disease got worse, forcing him to undergo a transplant. Kidd's knee broke down, causing him to have micro fracture surgery this summer and the Nets, under new ownership, decided they could no longer afford their second-best player, Kenyon Martin. They traded him for three future first-round picks. Once the team also dumped starting two guard Kerry Kittles, a furious Kidd flew to New Jersey and told the team that if things didn't change, he'd like a new home.
Will he be traded? Not right away. Kidd's agent, Jeff Schwartz, told Insider that Kidd hasn't formally demanded a trade. Instead he's registered his concern with the direction of the team. However, GM Rod Thorn's hands are tied and it actually makes sense for the Nets to accommodate Kidd's request. The two teams on the top of Kidd's list, the Lakers and the Mavericks, are interested if Kidd can prove that he's completely healed from his knee surgery. Kidd is rehabbing right now, but the general consensus is that he'll miss training camp and possibly the month of November. If he stays healthy and looks like the old Kidd, look for the Nets to cut a deal closer to the February trade deadline.

Baron Davis, PG, Hornets

What's the beef? Who knows? Davis stunned the Hornets last week with his trade demand. His agent, Todd Ramasar, claims that Davis is upset with the direction of the team, and wants to play in a place where he has a chance to win a title. With the Hornets moving West, the chances of the team doing it for the next several years is slim. Davis and Ramasar are also upset about the huge number of minutes Davis has to play there. He played the eighth-most minutes of anyone in the league last season. Given a history of knee and acl problems, that doesn't bode well for a nice, long career. Davis was also upset that the two players he was closest to on the team, Stacey Augmon and Courtney Alexander, were let go.
Will he be traded? Probably not. The team has been building around Davis and Jamaal Magloire and know that they can't get equal value in return. Hornets officials have been adamant both publicly and privately that they aren't trading him. They believe that this year's draft pick, J.R. Smith, has the potential to be a superstar and will be a nice partner to Davis in the backcourt. Davis' concerns are petty compared to most of the players on the list. He can complain about his minutes, but he didn't complain when he signed that max extension two years ago. Max players are expected to produce the type of numbers and minutes that Davis does. Neither Augmon or Alexander were key players on the team and as far as moving to the West goes, he's in the same boat with half the teams in the league. If the Hornets do trade him, it's because he has been unable to lead this team anywhere the past few years -- not because he demanded a trade.

Vince Carter, SG, Raptors

What's the beef? While Carter has never publicly demanded a trade, privately he's told everyone that will listen that he wants out if serious changes to the roster (which failed to happen this summer) weren't made. When Carter signed his extension with the Raptors, the team appeared to be on the verge of competing for an Eastern Conference championship. The team has been a disaster the past few years and a big shake-up at the top this summer didn't produce the management team or free agents the Carter was hoping for. This has been a long time coming. Carter has been eyeing a bigger stage to show his stuff off for years. His public flirting with the Knicks this summer should come as no surprise.
Will he be traded? The Raptors have tried. They've been in a number of discussions with teams, but despite a number of hot rumors this summer (Carter to the Knicks? Mavs? Hornets?) nothing has been close. The Raptors have their own questions about his durability and leadership, but the bottom line is that Carter puts fans in the seats. There are few NBA stars left who can do that and none of them are currently on the trading block. If the Raptors season is another disaster (it's shaping up that way) Carter will try to tighten the screws. But unless someone agrees to a fair offer for Carter, it looks like he's stuck in Canada for a little while longer.

Shareef Abdur-Rahim, PF, Blazers

What's the beef? Abdur-Rahim has been a starter his entire career. However last season, after a mid-season trade to the Blazers, head coach Maurice Cheeks decided to bring him off the bench. The Blazers believe that Zach Randolph is better at the four and last year Cheeks preferred Darius Miles to Reef at the three. At the end of the season, GM John Nash told Reef they'd try to trade him, but they've been underwhelmed with the offers for him. Cheeks, trying to mend fences, promised Reef the starting small forward job, but Reef claims he's a four and doesn't want to take Miles' job. In July his frustration spilled over and he not only demanded a trade, but threatened not to show up to training camp if he was still on the roster.
Will he be traded? Things don't look too good for Reef. The Blazers were very close to pulling the trigger on a deal a few weeks ago that would have sent Reef to the Timberwolves for Wally Szczerbiak. However, Randolph's little brush with the law caused them to pull back and reassess, essentially killing the deal. Abdur Rahim's agent, Aaron Goodwin claims that Abdur-Rahim may have no choice but to play for the Blazers next season. The team prefers to clear his $14.6 million dollar salary off the cap next summer when he becomes a free agent. "We've made a number of attempts to work out a trades that worked for Shareef and the Blazers," Goodwin told Insider. "They turned down two very good deals which says to me that they aren't trading him. I think the writing is on the wall. I don't think they're willing to trade him." Does that mean that Reef will change his position and report to camp. "I don't know that," Goodwin said. "He's always been a consummate professional during his career in the NBA and doesn't want to jeopardize that. At the same time, I think it's clear that it would be better for both Shareef and the Blazers to work out a trade. We're still hoping, but things don't look good right now."

Gary Payton, PG, Celtics

What's the beef? Payton signed with the Lakers for below market value last season in an effort to win an elusive championship. After a disappointing season of turmoil with the Lakers, Payton agreed not to opt out of his contract after his agent, Goodwin, had a talk with GM Mitch Kupchak. According to Goodwin, Kupchak told Goodwin that the Lakers still wanted Payton around and that things would be better this season with coach Rudy Tomjanovich on board. Shortly after Payton decided not to opt out, the Lakers traded him to the Celtics -- a team with virtually no shot at winning a championship. Payton was furious. "I'll quit. I can go on and do something else. . .I ain't going to move my family no more. I can't take my family to Boston. It ain't no disrespect to Boston. . . Boston is going to lose out on this. They ain't going to get nothing.''
Will he be traded? The Celtics are waiting patiently. Payton still hasn't informed the Celtics what he's going to do. He hasn't demanded a trade, nor has he told him that he'll report to camp. "I don't know," Goodwin told Insider. "He's still upset and if you know Gary, you know there's no point in trying to convince him of something when he's hot. We're all just waiting for him to cool down. This has nothing to do with the Celtics. It has to do with the fact that Gary gave up an opportunity to play in his hometown (with the Warriors) to honor a commitment to the Lakers. He feels betrayed." Payton is due $5.4 million this year and can then become an unrestricted free agent again next summer. The Celtics want him and feel he could put up great numbers this season. But if he really doesn't want to come, look for the Celtics to talk to the Heat, Rockets and possibly the Clippers about a swap for Payton.

Around the League

Speaking of trade demands, another couple of them may be forthcoming soon. The Sonics and Ray Allen are reportedly pretty far apart on their negotiations for Allen. Allen is looking for a contract that pays him around $100 million for six years. The Sonics are looking for something in the $70 million range. That's a pretty big gap. Both sides are still talking, but given Allen's uneasy relationship with coach Nate McMillan and the fiscal situation of the Sonics -- is a trade inevitable?

Allen may not be the only Sonic looking for a new home soon. Insider has learned that Vladimir Radmanovic's agent sent a contract extension proposal to the Sonics two weeks ago asking for "near max" dollars. If the Sonics are reluctant to pay Allen that kind of money, you can imagine their reaction to that. The Sonics have rebuffed a number of trade offers for Radmanovic this summer and have told him that they want him back. But at those numbers?


It looks like Karl Malone has decided to play another season. Several NBA sources claim that he's been actively talking to teams about a return. The question is where. The Lakers, Spurs, Heat and Timberwolves appear to be the front runners for Malone's services, but so far he hasn't indicated to any of the four teams which way he is leaning. Of the four, the Spurs have made the biggest push for Malone as of late and he's intrigued.


The Sixers bought out the final four years of Greg Buckner's disastrous contract on Wednesday. Bucker was due $13 million over the course of those four years. According to reports, Buckner got around $8 million of the $13 million he had left on his contract. He averaged 13.3 mpg and 3.1 ppg for the Sixers last season. Look for him to land with the Nuggets, who have been actively combing the market for a back-up two guard to put behind Voshon Lenard.
 
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devilalum

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sunsfn said:
A number of teams, including the Pacers and Suns, have made pitches for Stojakovic but the Kings aren't budging. Stojakovic is one of the great bargains in the NBA and the team's best shooter. If team chemistry continues to disintegrate during the season, then the Kings might look more seriously at a trade, but right now they feel like this issue can be worked out.

If true who do you think the Suns offered?
 

elindholm

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He asked who the Suns were offering - not slinslin.

Well, we do know that the offer was turned down... :p
 

Joe Mama

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devilalum said:
If true who do you think the Suns offered?

The obvious answer would be Shawn Marion. I'm just not sure what else they could offer without getting absolutely laughed at. There isn't anyone else they could send to Sacramento with a contract large enough. And please don't come back to that statement with the idea that they would trade Howard Eiseley. That's ridiculous.

Joe Mama
 

DevonCardsFan

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Wait never mind Marion's contract is to big to be involved with a Peja trade I'll look at Real GM and see what would work
 

ASUCHRIS

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elindholm said:
Eisley and Vujanic?


Dude, you forgot about the Chicago pick, and Casey as well, worth their weight in gold.... :D
 

George O'Brien

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Chad Ford's original deal was Marion and Jacobsen for Peja and Christi. I can't see either team doing that deal.

Christi is valuable to the Suns only if he could be traded to someone else. He's 34 and would overload an already overloaded SG position. For the Kings, Jacobson is not really a replacement for Christi and they have little depth on the outside anyway.
 

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Considering how much the Suns suddenly value outside shooting, I would not be surprised if JJ was mentioned.
 

thegrahamcrackr

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George O'Brien said:
Chad Ford's original deal was Marion and Jacobsen for Peja and Christi. I can't see either team doing that deal.

I was pretty sure it was Marion and Johnson for Peja and Christie. Thats why so many people were against it. I would have to think hard about the deal the way you mentioned it.
 

George O'Brien

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thegrahamcrackr said:
I was pretty sure it was Marion and Johnson for Peja and Christie. Thats why so many people were against it. I would have to think hard about the deal the way you mentioned it.

You're right.

My guess was that it the Suns proposed the Marion and Jacobsen deal and the Kings wanted Johnson. If it happened at all, I don't think it was ever serious either way.
 

scotsman13

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thegrahamcrackr said:
I was pretty sure it was Marion and Johnson for Peja and Christie. Thats why so many people were against it. I would have to think hard about the deal the way you mentioned it.


personally i am pretty sure that chad ford is making things up again. while peja is a very nice player there is no way that the suns would part with marion and jj. personally i dont think that the suns would part with marion for anything short of a superstar and no baggage.
 

George O'Brien

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scotsman13 said:
personally i am pretty sure that chad ford is making things up again. while peja is a very nice player there is no way that the suns would part with marion and jj. personally i dont think that the suns would part with marion for anything short of a superstar and no baggage.

In that every GM talks to every other GM on a regular basis, speculation that some kind of deal was discussed is not far fetched. However, 99% of this is simply low ball stuff that is not really serious.

On what the Suns would need for Marion, I think they would trade him for a top 10 center if they did not have to take back really ugly contracts. The problem is that there aren't any quality centers available even if the Suns include the Chicago pick.
 

DevonCardsFan

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I would love to see a starting 5 of

C-Hunter/Voshkuhl/Lampe
PF-Stoudamire
SF-Stojacavic
SG-Richardson/Christie
PG-Nash

That team would so be a contender, I would love that trade. Peje was a MVP candidate
 

tobiazz

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DevonCardsFan said:
I would love to see a starting 5 of

C-Hunter/Voshkuhl/Lampe
PF-Stoudamire
SF-Stojacavic
SG-Richardson/Christie
PG-Nash

That team would so be a contender, I would love that trade. Peje was a MVP candidate

That's a bad defensive team, even for the suns. But I would love to see Stouds be able to pass out to Nash and Peja--that would be sick.
 

PhxGametime

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Suns management must not like me? I've mentioned Peja as 1 of the most overrated players in league on this board, I wanted Suns to Draft Iguodala and Diaw previous year (2 players the scouts were high on)... :D
 

thegrahamcrackr

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BbaLL_31 said:
Suns management must not like me? I've mentioned Peja as 1 of the most overrated players in league on this board, I wanted Suns to Draft Iguodala and Diaw previous year (2 players the scouts were high on)... :D


Agree on the Peja point, although one of the most is a little extreme. He is definitely overrated though. People think he is one of the best SFs in the game, where he is a great shooter. Nothing more.


Iggy would have been nice this year. I honestly think the suns thought he would have been gone by the time they picked, which is why they shipped out the pick early.
 

George O'Brien

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thegrahamcrackr said:
Iggy would have been nice this year. I honestly think the suns thought he would have been gone by the time they picked, which is why they shipped out the pick early.

I think the Suns had Q on their radar from the start and could not afford him if they had drafted anybody.
 

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George O'Brien said:
I think the Suns had Q on their radar from the start and could not afford him if they had drafted anybody.

And they got the Chicago most likely lottery pick for it. This draft class was weak this year as well, that was a great move. :thumbup:
 

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George O'Brien said:
I think the Suns had Q on their radar from the start and could not afford him if they had drafted anybody.

I disagree. Even the Suns' brass have mentioned on several occasions that they had their eyes on a few of the big men free agents until those players started getting outrageous contract offers. Quentin Richardson was clearly option B. Several of them also sounded surprised and a bit disappointed that Iguodala had been available and they missed him with the draft pick.

Joe Mama
 

fordronken

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Joe Mama said:
I disagree. Even the Suns' brass have mentioned on several occasions that they had their eyes on a few of the big men free agents until those players started getting outrageous contract offers. Quentin Richardson was clearly option B. Several of them also sounded surprised and a bit disappointed that Iguodala had been available and they missed him with the draft pick.

Joe Mama

Yes, but regardless, the Suns would not have been able to afford Q if they'd kept their pick in the draft. This way, we still have that draft pick for next year. Since we got a good player, the trade looks good. If we'd have struck out, I'd be upset.
 

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IMO Suns might be happier that Q is here and I might even be (1.8 3PTers at .35 pct) an area Iguodala isn't quite there yet - both talented players (Iguodala my favorite UofA player, Jefferson before him) but with Nash, passing wasn't as important (at the time, Iguodala would've improved team in that area). I'm not sure that it was planned though, Q was restricted (well actually planned as Plan A I mean) - there was so much talk about Nash and Okur. Both players are talented (Q and Iggy) though.

I am Suns fan first regardless, however - I'm not high on Peja and IF there were a trade... example Marbury is a better player than Nash but I liked the trade for Marbury and I liked trade to ship him off (Penny's contract and we did get capspace and a few young talented players) anyways Nash is a better fit for this team and Suns made out on Marbury trade. Suns might feel Peja is better fit for Suns team but I sure do hope they make out on trade, I feel Marion and JJ are better than Christie and Peja and I'm hoping for a better trade, if one at all... Peja and Nash are the 2-3 top shooters (not as strong defensively) but I would hope for a 3-way (say a decent Center) or a better package.

Draft Picks, cash, capspace, young players (at least that can contribute - Suns are young as is), Center, something - Insider mentioned that Suns were interested in Peja and then before that a trade that could work out for Kings... I'd like to see a trade, that worked out for Suns. I do feel Peja is overrated but other than Malone, Kidd, and Fortson - and a trade could work out - although every single trade proposed on this board (not more than 2-3 members agree with) giving away 2 significant pieces though, would be disappointing.

This is a long message for me, I'm waiting on my friend - I MIGHT look into a trade proposal later on though :wave:
 

Joe Mama

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fordronken said:
Yes, but regardless, the Suns would not have been able to afford Q if they'd kept their pick in the draft. This way, we still have that draft pick for next year. Since we got a good player, the trade looks good. If we'd have struck out, I'd be upset.

That may be true, but George was inferring that the Suns actually planned it that way. I think it is pretty clear that they did not.

Joe Mama
 

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