A new Brandon Knight?

[Mainstreet]

I agree with those who want to get some positive production from Knight for the next two seasons. As noted, his salary is not going anywhere. So let's roll the dice.

He might surprise as a depth player if he is accepts the role.

The Suns can always sit him, seek a buyout (unlikely) or write-off his salary over for a number of years if things do not workout.

If things go wrong the latter is the most likely.

IMO, the worst thing the Suns can do with Knight is start him where he might gain a sense of entitlement.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

That's debatable.

As a member of the Suns, he has shot .334 from three and only .404 overall. (About a third of his shots have been threes.) He has averaged a mere 3.8 assists per game (granted, his minutes were cut in 16-17) and has an assist/turnover ratio of only 1.5. And it's not like he makes up for it with good defense. He's a ball-stopping chucker who torpedos his team's offensive efficiency.



I think that's very unlikely. He hasn't even been able to demonstrate where he is physically yet.

It's debatable that he will return to his pre-injury form. If he does though he will absolutely be one of the better players on the roster (until he is either gone or a couple more good players get brought in).

Despite every stat you just listed he is still one of the 5 best players currently on the team. I don't particularly see how that is debatable with the current state of the roster.

 

[devilalum]

The thing that holds Knight back the most is his shot selection. He'd have to shoot far far less than he's accustomed to for the Suns to be successful imo.

No, the thing that holds him back is that he sucks. Dude is a black hole. He had the worst +/- in the entire league for a long stretch.

To think that sitting around doing nothing for 2 years is going to magically make him better is fantasy.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Again, I don't think that the problem with Knight is "psychology." The problem is that he sucks. He is a poor shooter with atrocious shot selection, the prototypical "combo guard" who lacks the skills to play either guard position effectively.

This business about him once being an "All-Star snub" is fake news. People talk about All-Star snubs because it's a way to get attention, but then you ask them "Who should have been left off the team instead" and they never have an answer. So it's not a snub. Knight had one good half season where his strengths gave the illusion of offsetting his flaws, and that got him into the fringes of the All-Star conversation. He wasn't snubbed.

Those hoping to get something positive out of Knight next season aren't asking him to become the player he once was, but instead fantasizing that he'll be able to re-invent himself, for the better, from scratch. When has a player coming off of a major injury, at this point in his career, ever done that?

Knight has the skills to be successful. His shot selection was poor and he tended to play one against 5 on offense (which is a very bad trait indeed). But I remember watching him and mostly frustrated at what I could see he could do but was not doing it. Now maybe there is more to it. Some players just cannot see the court the way others can.

The chances of BK changing are slim in my mind. Very similar to Len changing, maybe less. But he still would be better than Payton at the point.

 

[elindholm]

Despite every stat you just listed he is still one of the 5 best players currently on the team. I don't particularly see how that is debatable with the current state of the roster.

Booker
Jackson
Warren

are better than Knight.

Then you have either Chandler (current roster) or the #4 pick (next year's roster), if not both, who are better than Knight.

Of the players who are left, let's consider Daniels, whose game is the most similar to Knight's. Is Knight really better than Daniels?

And I don't think Chriss has to get much better to pass Knight. He's not there yet because of his inconsistency and questionable attitude, but it wouldn't surprise me if we see a much more reliable version of him next season.

As for Payton, his three-point shooting is horrific and his low FT% is inexplicable, but his A/TO ratio blows Knight's away, he rebounds well for his position, he's at least as good defensively, and his overall shooting is better. That's not to say that he doesn't have evident flaws, because he does, but I wouldn't automatically rank Knight above him.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Payton plays like he doesn’t want to be here. So, there is no way he is better than Knight. He won’t be here next year anyway.

 

[JS22]

The thing that holds Knight back the most is his shot selection. He'd have to shoot far far less than he's accustomed to for the Suns to be successful imo.

I think he never got comfortable in his role as a hybrid PG / SG. When the options are what they are this offseason, I'm willing to roll with Knight as the primary PG next season to see what he can do.

Edit: This is assuming the Suns don't hang onto Payton.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I think he never got comfortable in his role as a hybrid PG / SG. When the options are what they are this offseason, I'm willing to roll with Knight as the primary PG next season to see what he can do.

Edit: This is assuming the Suns don't hang onto Payton.

But Knight's presence should in no way hinder the Suns in their pursuit of a starting caliber pg in the draft, free agency, or through trade. I do not think any of us would disagree with that.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I think he never got comfortable in his role as a hybrid PG / SG. When the options are what they are this offseason, I'm willing to roll with Knight as the primary PG next season to see what he can do.

Edit: This is assuming the Suns don't hang onto Payton.

If Knight or Payton is our starting point guard next year, you can +1 me on every Cheesebeef anti-McDonough post.

 

[BC867]

It's debatable that he will return to his pre-injury form. If he does though he will absolutely be one of the better players on the roster (until he is either gone or a couple more good players get brought in).

Despite every stat you just listed he is still one of the 5 best players currently on the team. I don't particularly see how that is debatable with the current state of the roster.

My point in wanting to see Knight as no more than 'instant offense' and not in the rotation (because we're stuck with him) has nothing to do with whom he is better than.

He needs to be judged as a Point Guard and facilitator on a young team. Using that criteria, he is a ball stopper and hurts the rest of this young team if he is in the rotation. And as a Shooting Guard, he is nothing better than mediocre.

His place on the team, and many of the comments about him, seem to reek of mediocrity. Guys, isn't it time for the Suns and their fans to lose this inferiority complex?

Knight, Len, Chriss, Bender -- how long are we going to rationalize their inconsistency and shortcomings?

We are not going to start moving in a winning direction . . . until we start moving in a winning direction. Being satisfied with losers is not going to do it.

Making a decision about McDonough and hiring a Head Coach who will last and relegate Sarver to what he is -- an accountant -- will never happen if we, the fans (and Press) support the same old-same old. Brandon Knight is just that.

 

[JCSunsfan]

My point in wanting to see Knight as no more than 'instant offense' and not in the rotation (because we're stuck with him) has nothing to do with whom he is better than.

He needs to be judged as a Point Guard and facilitator on a young team. Using that criteria, he is a ball stopper and hurts the rest of this young team if he is in the rotation. And as a Shooting Guard, he is nothing better than mediocre.

His place on the team, and many of the comments about him, seem to reek of mediocrity. Guys, isn't it time for the Suns and their fans to lose this inferiority complex?

Knight, Len, Chriss, Bender -- how long are we going to rationalize their inconsistency and shortcomings?

We are not going to start moving in a winning direction . . . until we start moving in a winning direction. Being satisfied with losers is not going to do it.

Making a decision about McDonough and hiring a Head Coach who will last and relegate Sarver to what he is -- an accountant -- will never happen if we, the fans (and Press) support the same old-same old. Brandon Knight is just that.

So many errors in this post.

Looking at what Knight can offer and whether he might be like next season has nothing to do with having an inferiority complex.
Knight and Len are not in the same category as Chriss and Bender, and I know of no one on this board that is rationalizing Len's inconsistency or Knight's.
No one is being satisfied with losers, you have to develop the talent you have while looking for better talent.
There is no decision to make about McDonough. He is the GM for the present.
There is a process going on right now about hiring a head coach, or hadn't you heard?
Sarver is not an accountant.
Fan pressure seldom results in anything, and even then not usually something good.

 

[JS22]

If Knight or Payton is our starting point guard next year, you can +1 me on every Cheesebeef anti-McDonough post.

I mean, I don't love Knight but the alternatives are pretty terrible for the most part. So as a last resort I wouldn't absolutely hate it.

 

[ColdPickleNachos]

I mean, I don't love Knight but the alternatives are pretty terrible for the most part. So as a last resort I wouldn't absolutely hate it.

I just think we need to get past "last resort" status, particularly at point guard. I couldn't stand watching Knight play basketball. I like that he seems to have changed his mindset and I'm open to him finding a place on the team even. But if he's our first option at point guard...it's just not good enough.

 

[JCSunsfan]

I just think we need to get past "last resort" status, particularly at point guard. I couldn't stand watching Knight play basketball. I like that he seems to have changed his mindset and I'm open to him finding a place on the team even. But if he's our first option at point guard...it's just not good enough.

First things first.

1. Get a coach. Hopefully its Bud.
2. Draft a player or two. This is really going to determine the rest of the process.
3. Let Bud decide about Payton. He's seen him enough. Bud's specialty is developing talent. He would know if there is anything worth salvaging with Payton.
4. Let Bud decide what he wants to do with BK. He will come off the bench as depth most likely. If he surprises and is a help, all the better.
5. Fill the gap if it needs to be filled in free agency or through trade.

Its a long time before opening day next October. Things will be VERY different by then. This summer will not be a repeat of last.

 

[BC867]

So many errors in this post.

Looking at what Knight can offer and whether he might be like next season has nothing to do with having an inferiority complex.
Knight and Len are not in the same category as Chriss and Bender, and I know of no one on this board that is rationalizing Len's inconsistency or Knight's.
No one is being satisfied with losers, you have to develop the talent you have while looking for better talent.
There is no decision to make about McDonough. He is the GM for the present.
There is a process going on right now about hiring a head coach, or hadn't you heard?
Sarver is not an accountant.
Fan pressure seldom results in anything, and even then not usually something good.

Yes, JC, I have heard that the Suns are looking for still another Head Coach. I am curious why you are using sarcasm to stick up for a management team that has failed, over and over.

And, yes, I know that Sarver is a banker, not an accountant. One thing he is not is a General Manager, but that hasn't stopped him putting his ego before the well being of the team.

My reference to inferiority complex was about what Suns fans have developed by supporting the status quo and alibiing it. I guess I should have added a smiley.

So many of the posts, especially regarding Knight, Len, etc., basically say something along the lines of, "Maybe he'll do better than he's done." That's the plan (other than a top draft pick)?

After eight years of futility, I just can't accept the status quo as a plan to turn the Suns around and start winning. Is the "error" this fan's or that of management?

Of course, neither you nor I have any control over the destiny of our Suns. But we have a right to expect the "pro's" to do their job in a professional manner and plan ahead.

There are three concrete things that we'll be watching.

(1) Will McDonough make smart moves, in the draft, free agent signing and/or trades?
(2) Will the Suns hire an experienced Head Coach with the knowledge to demand a balanced roster?
(3) Will both of them tell the egotistical part-owner, who admitted that he's been making mistakes from the beginning, to let them do their jobs?

As it plays out, all we can do is react. Because we are dedicated posters on a sports board. And this is the forum for posting our opinions.

Edit: I see that you have posted some of the same things while I was writing. Good!

 

[leclerc]

Knight wants to be considered part of the core,

I'm gonna stop you right there. The answer is no. No. Cut him.

 

[Hoop Head]

I'm gonna stop you right there. The answer is no. No. Cut him.

The only role in our "core" for Knight would be similar to the role that Barbosa played while D'Antoni was here. An instant offense guard off the bench who can fill it up when he's called upon and doesn't gripe about his playing time. If we could build a team with Knight as our first guard off the bench and Warren as our first forward, we'd have a formidable 2nd unit that could score in bunches. I can't think of another team that had that but I guess it would be somewhat similar to Barbosa and Diaw back in the day. Warren isn't a playmaker like Diaw was but Knight is a better playmaker than Barbosa.

 

[Mainstreet]

The only role in our "core" for Knight would be similar to the role that Barbosa played while D'Antoni was here. An instant offense guard off the bench who can fill it up when he's called upon and doesn't gripe about his playing time. If we could build a team with Knight as our first guard off the bench and Warren as our first forward, we'd have a formidable 2nd unit that could score in bunches. I can't think of another team that had that but I guess it would be somewhat similar to Barbosa and Diaw back in the day. Warren isn't a playmaker like Diaw was but Knight is a better playmaker than Barbosa.

I like the Barbosa comparison. If Knight is accepting of this type role, I think he can be a contributor.

 

[BC867]

Yup, that is the comparison. Instant offense off the bench rather than a regular spot in the rotation either at PG or SG.