According to Jurecki...

[Skkorpion]

1. The Cards offered Dexter Jackson the most money but Dexter prefers Pittsburgh.

2. The Cards offered Kordell Stewart the most money but Kordell prefers Chicago.

3. The Cards have offered Roosevelt Colvin the most money but Colvin prefers New England.

If all this is true, and it likely is, how can you blame Rod Graves? He's doing what we all want him to do, but it's not working.

Rod's planning and good intentions may not be able to overcome the Bidwill stigma. At some point in time, this team may have to accept it cannot compete in free agency and just make the decision to get out of the FA market completely.

If Rod Graves signs nobdy this week, a message will have been sent by the entire body of NFL players to the Cardinals. Will the Bidwills be listening?

 

[Ed B]

It's what I've been saying all along. Who the hell wants to play here? We have no passing game at all and free agents look at our team and say "wow, they're going 3-13" which everyone on earth except Tango can plainly see right now.

The only way we will ever get these guys here is to overpay them so much that they won't be able to resist.....like Starks. We offered starks almost $5 million more than the nearest competitor.

 

[RedStorm]

All things being equal, FAs will not sign here. However, the last few years were not the case. So what has changed?

We lost Fergie. Like it or not he did bring some respect.
We had a QB. Granted, I wanted and felt like we needed a change so no loss here.
We had one of the best WR in the league. But Graves under estimated his worth in the market and we lost him.
We have Graves himself. Who has been Bidwill's chief negotiator. Is Graves guilty by his close association with Bidwill? Is he Bidwill's puppet? I think so....But that is just me...(how mean..)

If Graves really had the power to change things then he would start with the team's business practices. However, he has not done that. We still have an FA come in then take at least 48 hrs before we offer a contract. That has to change now. Not later.

No, Graves is just Bidwill's man. He has gained Bidwill's trust by never going it alone. Always checking with Bill on every contract. Bidwill trusts him so he put him in charge. So. Really. Nothing has changed where it needs to change.

Just my .02 cents. Conspiracy and all....

 

[JD Robertson]

Has Rod Graves ever said he has made an offer to Vonnie Holliday or Chike Okeafor? I would hope he can get someone to sign this week or next.

 

[ajcardfan]

Well, the only bright side is that they haven't signed with those teams yet. That might change very soon, but if they really didn't care about the money they'd already be "agreed to terms." I would not say it's hopeless for these three. Someone has to break the logjam for us. Once (if) that happens, things will move quickly.

 

[X-29Fan]

Trickle down effect...

from losing (for one reason or another) key players

Jamir Miller
Aeneus Williams
Simeon Rice
David Boston

Surely players can see that the Cards are in a never-ending rebuilding program. And, for similar (maybe less) money, those players would rather go to a team that they believe wants to win.

Just an opinion.

 

[RedStorm]

One more thing...

I blame Graves for sticking to the same business practices that have produced failure. Also, for not signing Boston or getting compensation for him.

I'd say, that in the mind of at least this fan, Graves has dug himself a very deep hole.

 

[Jttsaz]

I hate to say it but I think the Cards need....

to overpay theses guys...atleast Colvin and Jackson...to get these guys to Arizona...what ever the other teams are offering...pay a million more! This will atleast get the ball rolling and we might change the perception of this org. to some of the other FA's out there. Something has got to give!

 

[Skkorpion]

Originally posted by RedStorm
One more thing...

I blame Graves for sticking to the same business practices that have produced failure. Also, for not signing Boston or getting compensation for him.

I'd say, that in the mind of at least this fan, Graves has dug himself a very deep hole.

If you see no change in behavior from Ferguson to Graves, then you are choosing not to look.

And, by the way, it was your beloved Ferguson who tagged Simeon Rice, got nothing for him, and lost him anyway.

Ah, what the hell, you're going to see and believe what you want, regardless. I give up.

 

[Red Air Force]

Graves has to start somewhere, is he really supposed to throw his hands up a say "Oh well we quit"?
It will not be physically possible to spend 34 million through the draft, and out side of Colvin Holiday, Okefor, and Jackson who is left in the league that would command a big ticket salary? We would littleraly have to sign 34 guys at a millions bucks a pop, and then who would we cut to get the roster down to 53? I'm rambling, but I'm getting nervous.

 

[john h]

Originally posted by Skkorpion
1. The Cards offered Dexter Jackson the most money but Dexter prefers Pittsburgh.

2. The Cards offered Kordell Stewart the most money but Kordell prefers Chicago.

3. The Cards have offered Roosevelt Colvin the most money but Colvin prefers New England.

If all this is true, and it likely is, how can you blame Rod Graves? He's doing what we all want him to do, but it's not working.

Rod's planning and good intentions may not be able to overcome the Bidwill stigma. At some point in time, this team may have to accept it cannot compete in free agency and just make the decision to get out of the FA market completely.

If Rod Graves signs nobdy this week, a message will have been sent by the entire body of NFL players to the Cardinals. Will the Bidwills be listening?

I agree with this totally. Graves is between a rock and the hard place and not only that has to not look like a fool by grossly overpaying for a FA when in fact that is the only way we will be able to attact a quality player. If a guy is already a millionaire he wants no part of us.

 

[JeffGollin]

Skkorp - What this tells me is that (a) it's not the tightness of Bidwill's wallet (he's bellying up to the bar). (b) it's not likely because they hate Coach Mac (all you hear are nice things about him).

The only conclusion I can logically arrive at is our players don't like the way they are treated by management once they get here And they must be communicating this to guys thinking about coming to the Valley. Either that or that FA prospects simply feel this team "is cursed" and will never win.

It could be (a) the picayune stuff like chintzing on free shoes, travel arrangements or per diem allowances, (b) mediocre medical care, (c) dumb policies regarding working hours, days off etc., (d) inadequate strength/conditioning procedures, (e) poor position coaching/development of young talent or (f) the curse of losing.

Here's the paradox. (a) We aren't going to win until we bring good players here and keep them here. (b) but we're not going to attract good players unless we win.

The only way to break this cycle is to pay obscene amounts of money to good players to get them here, and then TREAT THEM WELL TO KEEP 'EM HERE.

It's going to take: (1) straightening out the day-to-day operations of the club and (b) overpaying these dudes to a level where only a drooling imbecile would turn down the offer.

We may all hate it, but if we want to bring winning football to the Valley, that's what it will take.

 

[ChiCard]

I blame Graves because if he's doing nthe right "salesman" job on these guys he'd convince them we're serious about re-building and want to sign on. He must not come accross as very sincere.

 

[Cats]

Jurecki has said that the Cards are having a hard time signing free agents because of Coach Mac. He only has 2 years left, maybe less and players want to play for Mac but don't like the fact he might not be there. He also said that Graves and Bidwill are not McGinnis fans.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

uh, ajcardfan, wanna let us all know what rules of nature govern that some poor player will have to "break the logjam" and that once that's done "things will move quickly." i could see neither or those happening, unless you consider signing some third-rate talent "breaking the logjam" after which i hardly see "things moving quickly." this offseason is playing out as terribly as it possibly could.

 

[Ed B]

I think it's a matter of players around the league seeing the cardinals constantly letting their veteran free agents walk. We've been in permanent "rebuilding" for 15 years. The perception is probably that the team just isn't ever going to be any good.


I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing with that......just a perception.

 

[RedStorm]

Ah, what the hell, you're going to see and believe what you want, regardless. I give up.

True. Like all of us. But, with all honesty....I want to believe. I really do. However, I will not have blind faith. What you see has given you faith. However, I have put a high standard in my mind for Graves to hurdle. Maybe that is unrealistic. I don't know. But I feel like I have been burned. So, I am just responding with a show me attitude.

Graves says to judge him on the team that goes to camp. We will see. However, it looks pretty bleak right now. I want the sunshine but there are just too many clouds in the sky...

I wish to believe but I have no reason so far. Signing Colvin, Holliday/Okerfer, and Blake would be a start. Drafting well. Being the first to sign our #1 draft pick will do it.

That is what is going to prove to me that Graves is not just parading out the same dog and pony show that has happend for years.

 

[RedStorm]

Originally posted by Ed B
I think it's a matter of players around the league seeing the cardinals constantly letting their veteran free agents walk. We've been in permanent "rebuilding" for 15 years. The perception is probably that the team just isn't ever going to be any good.


I'm neither agreeing nor disagreeing with that......just a perception.

We have a lifetime 3 year plan...LOL :lol

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Cats
Jurecki has said that the Cards are having a hard time signing free agents because of Coach Mac. He only has 2 years left, maybe less and players want to play for Mac but don't like the fact he might not be there. He also said that Graves and Bidwill are not McGinnis fans.

Now i'm totally confused. Who the hell hired mac if Graves AND Bidwill are not fans of his? Did Fergie hire him everyone says he was basically a scout the last 2 years? My take is Bidwill hired Mac, has he changed his mind?

If he has, make a move don't wait.

To use a comparison it's quite evident UCLA knew long before now that Steve Lavin wasn't their choice to be the coach. Because of AD's changing and internal issues even after contacting Rick Pitino, they chose to keep Lavin. Pitino went to Louisville and resurrected the program, UCLA stuck with Lavin and just got the EIGHTH spot in the Pac 10 tourney so they can lose to Arizona by 30 and go home.

UCLA should have made the decision 2 years ago fire Lavin and hire your next coach while the team was still good if not underachieving.

If Mac is not the choice of ownership or GM, find someone who is and fire Mac. if he IS your choice, make that clear so FA players won't be concerned about Mac being here or not.

 

[Ed B]

Originally posted by RedStorm
True. Like all of us. But, with all honesty....I want to believe. I really do. However, I will not have blind faith.

Exactly.

Those asking us for patience and faith are asking quite a lot, given this team's history.

And frankly, losing David Boston, not signing any FAs yet, and having the FAs we bring in basically say they'd rather play elsewhere for less money isn't giving me all that much hope. Neither is the eternal "prospects" bullspit. Forgive me for laughing when the team loses Boston with no compensation and their talk the next day in the paper is all about how excited they are about Bryan Gilmore and his one NFL catch.

 

[Sandan]

I think the biggest problem for years has been that there was nobody definativly in charge. This is what has lead to the current situation.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Ed B
Exactly.

Those asking us for patience and faith are asking quite a lot, given this team's history.

And frankly, losing David Boston, not signing any FAs yet, and having the FAs we bring in basically say they'd rather play elsewhere for less money isn't giving me all that much hope. Neither is the eternal "prospects" bullspit. Forgive me for laughing when the team loses Boston with no compensation and their talk the next day in the paper is all about how excited they are about Bryan Gilmore and his one NFL catch.

Yep, Gilmore couldn't make this team until what his 3rd try and suddenly I'm supposed to be excited? Kasper couldn't make 2 other NFL teams but I'm supposed to be excited? Boston was the one legitimate proven NFL WR we had and with him gone it's hard to persuade a QB to sign here.

Even if we bring in Blake and offer huge money and promise to draft Andre Johnson, that's not going to convince him, Johnson is a raw player.

I think the talk about how excited we are about Gilmore and McCown etc is hard to believe given how little they actually played last season on a 5-11 team. Even before getting hurt Gilmore was basically a gunner on special teams.

 

[Tangodnzr]

Having a bad hair day Russ?
Sitting on a pimple?

 

[Stout]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Having a bad hair day Russ?
Sitting on a pimple?

The intelligence of this post simply amazes me. It must be a logic so far above my comprehension that I miss it altogether. I don't see how it furthers anything and does anything but insult, but I must be missing something.

 

[Russ Smith]

Originally posted by Tangodnzr
Having a bad hair day Russ?
Sitting on a pimple?

I've been having a bad hair day since my mid 20's Tango!

I think I'm just starting to realize losing Boston was a lot more significant than I originally thought. If there was a logical reason to act the way we did fine, but we should have known in that scenario we may very well lose him and have contingency plans in place, it doesn't appear we did, and all of a sudden we have a string of players coming in and apparently using us to negotiate contracts with other teams.

I don't think it's coincidence our offers are higher but they prefer other teams, they come to us, get an offer, then go somewhere else and use our offer to drive up the price on the other team, even if still winds up lower.

I said it yesterday I'm starting to panic I don't seen any clear cut case where we can say "we're going to get this player."

We'll get a QB I have no doubt, but right now it looks like we'll get the one that's left, not necessarily the one WE want. Same with DE we'll probably end up with Holliday who's not the guy we want.

It's frustrating, I want to see SOME evidence we're going to turn the corner.