Adulais Thomas

[BigDavis75]

The other fella's right, they run a 4-3 base and the 4-6 as a followup more than the 3-4.

The 3-4 was more of a thing with the previous coaching staff.

No, they stand Suggs and Thomas up almost every play and have moved Scott to MLB. They play way more 3-4 than anything else. Ngata and Pryce are the ends. Remember when Lewis was out, they tried to play a DL (maybe Johnson?) at ILB to pair with Scott.

 

[Boyd Cardinal]

No, they stand Suggs and Thomas up almost every play and have moved Scott to MLB. They play way more 3-4 than anything else. Ngata and Pryce are the ends. Remember when Lewis was out, they tried to play a DL (maybe Johnson?) at ILB to pair with Scott.

In a 3-4 there aren't any ends. There is a Nose and two defensive tackles that align head up on the Offensive Tackle every play. Baltimore's staring lineup is Gregg, Ngata, Pryce and Suggs.

In the "46" Suggs stands up as a weak end and Thomas is on the LOS too. In a 4-3 suggs is an end and Thomas occasionaly aligns outside the TE if one is on the LOS. If a TE is on the LOS in Baltimore's 4-3 they commit 5 defenders to the LOS. Baltimore was in the "46" when Cincy ran the flea flicker for a TD Thursday night. I did not get to see the first half of game, but in the second half Baltimore was in a 4-3 "46" look seventy percent of the second half. They do occasionaly play a 3-4 and a three man line with 4 and 5 DB's on passing downs.

When Mike Nolan was DC at Baltimore they ran a true base 3-4, but when Ryan assumed DC Ray Lewis was extremely vocal about how he hated the 3-4 because he was constantly taking on offensive guards. Ryan immediately switched the scheme to a 4-3 as did his brother Rob in Oakland. I would find it extremely odd for them to play a 3-4 way more than anything else when as a DC at U of Cincy, Oklahoma, and briefly at K.State he always ran a 4-3. His dad always ran a 4-3 and his brother runs a 4-3.

I am not trying to be argumentative, but the Ryan family style of defnse is very unique. It is very multiple, complex, and confusing to the opposition. In no way does Rex sit in any form of a base defense too often. I have listened to him speak at several coaching conventions in the past ten years and his number one priority is stuffing the run.(Buddy actually had a stretch of 62 consecutive games without allowing any member of the opposition to gain 100 yds. against him.) They put eight in the box, and try to put pressure on the QB. I find it odd that he has suddenly abandoned all those principles he held dear for twenty years as a coach. Baltimore may run some 3-4, but I would be willing to wager they haven't aligned in a true base 3-4 for twenty percent of all defensive snaps the entire year.

 

[Pariah]

In a 3-4 there aren't any ends. There is a Nose and two defensive tackles that align head up on the Offensive Tackle every play. Baltimore's staring lineup is Gregg, Ngata, Pryce and Suggs.

That's not true. They're a more stout type of DE, but at least one of them is an end. Pryce is a DE.

 

[Boyd Cardinal]

That's not true. They're a more stout type of DE, but at least one of them is an end. Pryce is a DE.

I guess it is one's choice of lingo. Some 3-4 schemes refer to them as ends, others refer to them as tackles. In the 94' Arizona Cardinals playbook I have the Ryans' refer to them as tackles in the 3-4 set, but that may be because they were a 4-3 team. I agree Pryce is an end, he plays head up on the TE or outside the offensive tackle. In a 3-4 the ends/tackles align headup on the offensive tackles with the nose in a zero technique.

 

[SuperSpck]

I guess it is one's choice of lingo. Some 3-4 schemes refer to them as ends, others refer to them as tackles. In the 94' Arizona Cardinals playbook I have the Ryans' refer to them as tackles in the 3-4 set, but that may be because they were a 4-3 team. I agree Pryce is an end, he plays head up on the TE or outside the offensive tackle. In a 3-4 the ends/tackles align headup on the offensive tackles with the nose in a zero technique.

Sounds like knowledge.

 

[BigDavis75]

I guess it is one's choice of lingo. Some 3-4 schemes refer to them as ends, others refer to them as tackles. In the 94' Arizona Cardinals playbook I have the Ryans' refer to them as tackles in the 3-4 set, but that may be because they were a 4-3 team. I agree Pryce is an end, he plays head up on the TE or outside the offensive tackle. In a 3-4 the ends/tackles align headup on the offensive tackles with the nose in a zero technique.

This is a one-technique, I've never heard of a zero-technique. We can disagree on this, but when they stand two guys up on the outside of three D-Lineman and play two LBs over the 3-man down line, that reeks of 3-4. You consistently use the term "8-man front" in relation to the 46, who is the 8th man?

 

[Boyd Cardinal]

This is a one-technique, I've never heard of a zero-technique. We can disagree on this, but when they stand two guys up on the outside of three D-Lineman and play two LBs over the 3-man down line, that reeks of 3-4. You consistently use the term "8-man front" in relation to the 46, who is the 8th man?

A zero technique is when the defensive tackle is aligned nose to nose with the offensive center, basically right down the middle of the center, not shaded to a shoulder. In the 46' defensive tape I have, Rex devotes 5 minutes of instruction called "playing the zero technique." I have always referred to a 1 technique as playing on the shoulder of the offensive center.

I agree, this has went on long enough. This is a Cardinal board, but I will offer one final explanation. The key characteristic of the "46" defense is that the center and both guards are covered by defensive lineman. A zero technique on the center and two defensive lineman aligned on the outside shoulder of both guards. This creates one-on-one blocking for the center,therefore in most "46" defenses they align their best lineman on the center. Swann in 94 and 95, White with the Eagles, and Hampton in Chicago. Against many formations the "46" will have 5 men on the LOS and two LB"s ,therefore appearing to be a 3-4, but in most 3-4's (Dallas, New England, and Pittsburgh) their tackles almost always align on the offensive tackles. In the "46" they cover up the guards. If there is a TE , Reed drops out of the sky to become the eigth man. In 3 and 4 wideout looks the "46" will have 7 in the box and appear to be a 3-4, but both guards and center are covered. Against a Pro Set, it is an 8 man front, against double tights they stack 7 on the LOS. It is an extremely complex defense and changes looks according to offensive formation. The one signature is the three DL covering the center and both guards. Against tight or run formations REED becomes the eighth man.

I will watch Baltimore closely the rest of the season to see what they are doing defensively. Rex Ryan is a brilliant coordinator, that is extremely unconventinal. He plays some 3-4, 4-3, "46", and some things I am not sure of. I would love to hear their defensive huddle because they present some unique fronts and coverages.

If, as you say, they are playing a majority of 3-4 I haven't seen it, and am somewhat shocked considering the NFL network did an hour long show with Sam Huff and Ray Lewis where Lewis spent the majority of the time bashing the 3-4. They later interviewed Buddy and Huff and they both said the 4-3 was the best defense to run.Rex has been a base 4-3 coach his entire career, but maybe he is beginning to branch off. Enjoyed the discussion.

 

[BigDavis75]

A zero technique is when the defensive tackle is aligned nose to nose with the offensive center, basically right down the middle of the center, not shaded to a shoulder. In the 46' defensive tape I have, Rex devotes 5 minutes of instruction called "playing the zero technique." I have always referred to a 1 technique as playing on the shoulder of the offensive center.

I agree, this has went on long enough. This is a Cardinal board, but I will offer one final explanation. The key characteristic of the "46" defense is that the center and both guards are covered by defensive lineman. A zero technique on the center and two defensive lineman aligned on the outside shoulder of both guards. This creates one-on-one blocking for the center,therefore in most "46" defenses they align their best lineman on the center. Swann in 94 and 95, White with the Eagles, and Hampton in Chicago. Against many formations the "46" will have 5 men on the LOS and two LB"s ,therefore appearing to be a 3-4, but in most 3-4's (Dallas, New England, and Pittsburgh) their tackles almost always align on the offensive tackles. In the "46" they cover up the guards. If there is a TE , Reed drops out of the sky to become the eigth man. In 3 and 4 wideout looks the "46" will have 7 in the box and appear to be a 3-4, but both guards and center are covered. Against a Pro Set, it is an 8 man front, against double tights they stack 7 on the LOS. It is an extremely complex defense and changes looks according to offensive formation. The one signature is the three DL covering the center and both guards. Against tight or run formations REED becomes the eighth man.

I will watch Baltimore closely the rest of the season to see what they are doing defensively. Rex Ryan is a brilliant coordinator, that is extremely unconventinal. He plays some 3-4, 4-3, "46", and some things I am not sure of. I would love to hear their defensive huddle because they present some unique fronts and coverages.

If, as you say, they are playing a majority of 3-4 I haven't seen it, and am somewhat shocked considering the NFL network did an hour long show with Sam Huff and Ray Lewis where Lewis spent the majority of the time bashing the 3-4. They later interviewed Buddy and Huff and they both said the 4-3 was the best defense to run.Rex has been a base 4-3 coach his entire career, but maybe he is beginning to branch off. Enjoyed the discussion.

I will definately look for the stuff you mentioned, especially the zero technique, which I had always thought was a 1-technique. I think Ryan has realized that he has some very good personnel for the 3-4 and has started implementing it more. I think, like you mentioned, that the success of his defenses is due in some degree to their unpredictability.

 

[CardLogic]

Boyd, welcome to the best Cardinals board on the net!!! If you haven't been lurking awhile prior to posting you may not realize...

's buy!!!

I'll take a Double Bypass Burger and Flatliner Fries, from the Heart Attack Grill, and couple Four Peak's Kiltlifters to wash it down!!

http://www.heartattackgrill.com/home.htm

Sounds as though you know a little bit about football! I look forward to your further contributions to the board.

 

[Boyd Cardinal]

Boyd, welcome to the best Cardinals board on the net!!! If you haven't been lurking awhile prior to posting you may not realize...

's buy!!!

I'll take a Double Bypass Burger and Flatliner Fries, from the Heart Attack Grill, and couple Four Peak's Kiltlifters to wash it down!!

http://www.heartattackgrill.com/home.htm

Sounds as though you know a little bit about football! I look forward to your further contributions to the board.

Thanks for the welcome. I have been a Card fan since 1980 and can still remember those soft pretzels at Busch stadium. Don't know that much, but am a DC at a small 2A high school in southern Indiana. In 2000 I had the opportunity to match wits with Jay Cutler, who was then a senior at Heritage Hills High School. It doesn't take much of an imagination to figure out who came out on top in that contest.

I have prowled this board for years. Glad to finally contribute.

 

[Boyd Cardinal]

I will definately look for the stuff you mentioned, especially the zero technique, which I had always thought was a 1-technique. I think Ryan has realized that he has some very good personnel for the 3-4 and has started implementing it more. I think, like you mentioned, that the success of his defenses is due in some degree to their unpredictability.

Agree, they are extremely athletic. Thomas can play 4 different positions. I will be watching them closely.


I know you prefer a Tampa 2, but I think our Cards have some athletes to possibly run a 3-4 depending on the new coach. Dansby. Okeafor, Hayes, and Wilson are very athletic and versatile. Dansby and Wilson are beasts when applying pressure to the QB.

 

[BigDavis75]

Agree, they are extremely athletic. Thomas can play 4 different positions. I will be watching them closely.


I know you prefer a Tampa 2, but I think our Cards have some athletes to possibly run a 3-4 depending on the new coach. Dansby. Okeafor, Hayes, and Wilson are very athletic and versatile. Dansby and Wilson are beasts when applying pressure to the QB.

I agree on the 3-4, I would like to see a lineup as such:

LE: Dockett
DT: Watson/Clancy
RE: Berry/Smith
LOLB: Okeafor (Bryan Thomas and Ellis, he's injured now, have done an excellent job with this move, why not Okeafor? Also, Okeafor had good sucess standing up last game.)
MLBs: Dansby and Hayes, I think Dansby would flourish in the middle here, Dansby reminds me a lot of a better version of Larry Foote.
ROLB: ?, this is a tough call. How about Gaines Adams? Recent draft picks have had great success with this move (see Merriman and Ware).

Traditionally in the 3-4, the ROLB is a better all around player while the LOLB is more of a pass rusher. You see this with Phillips in SD (he is a great player BTW), Ellis, and Haggans in Pitt. I would keep the secondary pretty much the same though with Wilson as a SS, instead of an OLB (as I thought you were suggesting, I may have misread) and maybe add in a FA or a draft pick.