After Monday Night Game ..... Real Refs Will Be Back Next Week .... Guaranteed!

[CtCardinals78]

Best call they made all night

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[Ronin]

Again, everyone is comparing the last ten years or so of regular refs mistakes to three weeks of replacement refs....and I think the replacement refs already have more medium to big ones made in those three games. Not to mention a dozen or so smaller ones each game, every game. Not to mention the conferences, the hand holding official on the sideline, etc.

These refs have been absolutely abysmal from day one. It was clearly an INT. he had it against his facemask and chest the whole time. the other guy had anywhere from one hand slightly wedged to barely touching it most of the time. In the end Jennings was laying on top (back first) to Tate. It really wasn't even close. Wasn't close to a tie. A botched call.

Just think, if the Cards wouldn't of held, they would have won TWO games by the scabs. This could cost us a playoff spot at the end of the season (or the niners, or someone else in the NFC).

Of course PC said he thought the refs were doing a fine job. Yeah, a 4th timeout (that PC knew he didn't have but called it anyway by working the scabs), numerous bogus calls going your way above the number going against you, and now a gift win.

And of course again, the refs are right there, miss it all. Watch the replay, miss the call. Mess up the whole procedure of it.

This week even before this call was the worst, and the coaches and players are learning to take advantage of the refs just like I said. It'll only get worse from here too.

They're losing control of the games due to the refs (and the NFL pushing this crap) and their response is to tighten down on the coaches and issue memos and crap to them instead. Unreal.

These first couple were png so the link if you want to see them, the rest are smaller jpeg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a114/jmc8888/packers1.png
http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a114/jmc8888/packers2.png

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Those pics don't show the offensive pass interference on Golden Tate.

 

[Southpaw]

Just imagine if a review reversed the call. Those refs may not have made it to the locker room.

If ten fans were pulled out of the stands and handed ref unis, they probably would not have done a poorer job than these clowns.

 

[joeshmo]

thats rubbish. was it the Tennesse game (?) that was lost because the DB tried to knock the hail mary down and hit it into an opponents arms for the TD
DBs should always try to intercept the pass in that situation. never bat a live ball around a endzone

Without a shadow of a doubt not rubbish. You bring up one lucky play only, when there are far more plays that show knocking the ball down as working. Every coach at every level teaches this. Sharper isn't the only one to bring it up. Chris Carter brought it up, Mike Golic brought it up, and Steve Young brought it up. That is four players who have played the game and know what is coached, all saying you have to knock the ball away.

Anyways, whether the NFL believes they are in the right or not, this just gave the Union the PR trump card. Even though they think they are right in many aspects of the negotiations it doesn't matter anymore, for the sake of their own good they just have to let it go. Anyone who has ever been married knows what I am talking about.

 

[Dr. Jones]

Without a shadow of a doubt not rubbish. You bring up one lucky play only, when there are far more plays that show knocking the ball down as working. Every coach at every level teaches this. Sharper isn't the only one to bring it up. Chris Carter brought it up, Mike Golic brought it up, and Steve Young brought it up. That is four players who have played the game and know what is coached, all saying you have to knock the ball away.

Anyways, whether the NFL believes they are in the right or not, this just gave the Union the PR trump card. Even though they think they are right in many aspects of the negotiations it doesn't matter anymore, for the sake of their own good they just have to let it go. Anyone who has ever been married knows what I am talking about.

Agreed on bolded #1!

Agree on bolded #2!

 

[MadCardDisease]

Even though they think they are right in many aspects of the negotiations it doesn't matter anymore, for the sake of their own good they just have to let it go. Anyone who has ever been married knows what I am talking about.

Wiser words have never been spoken. Well put my friend.

 

[kerouac9]

The NFL is inflicting these officials on us over $9000 per game, including playoffs and regular season.

Thanks, NFL. We know you're working on SUPER-narrow margins and totally got hosed by the players union a year ago, and have no price stability when it comes to labor.

 

[Mulli]

The NFL is inflicting these officials on us over $9000 per game, including playoffs and regular season.

Thanks, NFL. We know you're working on SUPER-narrow margins and totally got hosed by the players union a year ago, and have no price stability when it comes to labor.

Look for the Cardinals to lock the gatorade cooler again soon...

 

[Southpaw]

The NFL is inflicting these officials on us over $9000 per game, including playoffs and regular season.

Thanks, NFL. We know you're working on SUPER-narrow margins and totally got hosed by the players union a year ago, and have no price stability when it comes to labor.

That must be $9k to be split up among the entire crew. Right. No way these clowns get $ 180k for entire season.

 

[jbeecham]

That must be $9k to be split up among the entire crew. Right. No way these clowns get $ 180k for entire season.

Actually they do make over 6 figures to work part-time...

 

[kerouac9]

That must be $9k to be split up among the entire crew. Right. No way these clowns get $ 180k for entire season.

Well, it's some $3 million total in difference between defined-benefit and defined-contribution plans pro-rated over all the games in the season.

I know that people like to throw out that $150K number, but I'm guessing that's the payment for a lead official like Hoculi. I haven't been able to find anything online besides an occasional tweet from apologist Andrew Brandt saying that all officials get that kind of money.

What I'm seeing from other sources is that the average official gets between $50K and $70K a year. Those are your side judge, back judge, etc.

 

[kerouac9]

Actually they do make over 6 figures to work part-time...

Hogwash. Go ahead and swallow what the NFL is selling.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/nfl-referee-officiating-impasse-threatens-integrity-072412

Gene Steratore, an official we hired in 2003 who is generally regarded as one of the better referees in the NFL, is the official in charge of protecting Brees and his $2.5 million per game.

Steratore made $5,606 per game during the 2011 season and would like a raise to about $6,000 per game this season. The NFL is offering him $5,746.

To sum this up, the NFL is offering its crew of well-trained officials a compensation increase of 2.5 percent. The officials are asking for 8 percent.

That totals up to about $89K per year. The NFL is including pension liabilities, health insurance coverage, and all other benefits under weekly salary. Is that how you talk about your salary?

 

[Mulli]

Hogwash. Go ahead and swallow what the NFL is selling.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/nfl-referee-officiating-impasse-threatens-integrity-072412



That totals up to about $89K per year. The NFL is including pension liabilities, health insurance coverage, and all other benefits under weekly salary. Is that how you talk about your salary?

 

[Southpaw]

Well, it's some $3 million total in difference between defined-benefit and defined-contribution plans pro-rated over all the games in the season.

I know that people like to throw out that $150K number, but I'm guessing that's the payment for a lead official like Hoculi. I haven't been able to find anything online besides an occasional tweet from apologist Andrew Brandt saying that all officials get that kind of money.

What I'm seeing from other sources is that the average official gets between $50K and $70K a year. Those are your side judge, back judge, etc.

So the replacement refs are working under the same pay plan/per game as "real" refs?

 

[kerouac9]

So the replacement refs are working under the same pay plan/per game as "real" refs?

An article that I found on ESPN.com said that the replacement head judges are getting $3500 a game, and the line judges are getting some $3000.

 

[Southpaw]

NFL Referees: A Week In The Life

Not exactly a per time job. I had no idea.



http://onlyagame.wbur.org/2012/09/08/nfl-refs-workload

NFL Referees: A Week In The Life
By Doug Tribou



Yellow flags get a lot of attention, but they’re a small part of the job description for NFL officials. (AP)

Before we go under the hood to review an NFL official’s day planner, here are some basics:

How much do NFL officials work during the season?

A conservative estimate is 20-25 hours week – not including travel. For head referees 30-35 hours. But there’s always another game to watch or another page in the rule book worth re-reading.

How much do NFL refs earn?

Contract Dispute
In June, the NFL announced that it would use replacement referees during negotiations with its officials. Key issues include the current pension system and whether referees should be considered full-time or part-time employees.
Last season rookies made more than $75,000. The most senior refs just under $200,000.

Bill Carollo retired in 2009 after 20 years as an NFL official, most of them as a head referee. Today the 60-year-old Wisconsin resident manages the officials in four Division-I college football conferences. I asked Carollo to walk me through a referee’s week, starting at the end of a Sunday afternoon game.....

The whole work week is broken down in the rest of the article @

http://onlyagame.wbur.org/2012/09/08/nfl-refs-workload

 

[jbeecham]

Hogwash. Go ahead and swallow what the NFL is selling.

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/nfl-referee-officiating-impasse-threatens-integrity-072412



That totals up to about $89K per year. The NFL is including pension liabilities, health insurance coverage, and all other benefits under weekly salary. Is that how you talk about your salary?

The do also officiate playoff games & pre-season games so really it's more like 21 games X $5606 = $117726.00 = 6 figures

Besides, that $5606 is the salary for 1 official... probably one of the lowest paid ones (to make his point in the article).

 

[kerouac9]

The do also officiate playoff games & pre-season games so really it's more like 21 games X $5606 = $117726.00 = 6 figures

Besides, that $5606 is the salary for 1 official... probably one of the lowest paid ones (to make his point in the article).

Not all of them. Only the best officiating crews get to work the postseason, and many of them work multiple games. No crew works all four rounds of the playoffs and the Super Bowl--for example, you'd never have a crew work the NFC Championship game and then the Super Bowl the next week.

There's no reason to believe that officials get the same pay for preseason games as they do for regular-season games, either. Players don't get the same pay for them, and officials don't travel for those games (Hoculi frequently will officiate a Cards preseason game in Glendale, for example).

If you have anything more to offer in the face of actual evidence than your own assumptions and biases, I'd love to hear it.

 

[CardsFan88]

So at 8 percent raise, even what the refs are asking for doesn't add up to inflation (real inflation, not BLS fake doctored hedonics inflation), so even then they're still losing.

RG is an idiot. The sanctity of the game for peanuts. The health of the players (which is all a lie by RG, otherwise you wouldn't have these refs)

Those pics don't show the offensive pass interference on Golden Tate.

Yeah, I almost got a picture of that too, but I felt 7 pics was enough. It was blatant.

Maybe if he hadn't chucked him to the ground he could of caught the ball, but he chucked him, and didn't have the time to catch it, Jennings did.

Oh and again in I think it was the third pic on that you can see the two refs standing right there.

I said it before and I'll say it again. Some people just can't run the 40 yard dash in 4.3 seconds no matter how hard they try. Some people just can't ref the NFL at NFL speed no matter how much time they have.

These scabs just can't ref the NFL at NFL speed.

After all seeing how they didn't vet any of these scabs for things like getting paid by teams, fans of teams, or them having fantasy teams, what makes anyone think they actually had a legitimate and accurate process to put these scabs through to see if they could be an NFL ref. They didn't. It's obvious. The commissioner has no clothes.

Not all of them. Only the best officiating crews get to work the postseason, and many of them work multiple games. No crew works all four rounds of the playoffs and the Super Bowl--for example, you'd never have a crew work the NFC Championship game and then the Super Bowl the next week.

There's no reason to believe that officials get the same pay for preseason games as they do for regular-season games, either. Players don't get the same pay for them, and officials don't travel for those games (Hoculi frequently will officiate a Cards preseason game in Glendale, for example).

If you have anything more to offer in the face of actual evidence than your own assumptions and biases, I'd love to hear it.

I'm pretty sure they rotate and have an off week or two during the season (like a team has a bye week) as well. That's a guess, but I could have sworn they said they rotate and have an off week after like four weeks or something.

Also to a more general audience, lots of people make millions for part time work, that don't even involve sports. Most people deserve far more pay then they're getting, but that's THEIR cases. If one group of people don't get screwed, it doesn't mean that it's unfair because they got unscrewed, but you still get screwed. The 25 cent minimum wage would now be 30 dollars an hour. So regardless of anything else, that's what real inflation dictates. People that negotiate their wages (basically everyone, singularly or collectively) have a right to want to have their wages keep up or surpass inflation. Sadly, no one really has. Except movie stars, sports stars, and wall street. Go figure.

 

[Black Jesus]

They work 1, maybe 2 days a week.. I am sure they have material to review going into the games, but lets get real, Work 2/5 of the calendar year, only a couple days a week.

Yes they probably deserve a slight raise, but these guys should not be millionaires.

 

[kerouac9]

They work 1, maybe 2 days a week.. I am sure they have material to review going into the games, but lets get real, Work 2/5 of the calendar year, only a couple days a week.

Yes they probably deserve a slight raise, but these guys should not be millionaires.

Well, good. Because they're not. They do have an incredibly specialized set of skills and experience that (clearly) make them valuable in the marketplace. When you have a unique skill set, you get to charge what you want for the utilization of those skills.

But this is the point. Lots of Americans like football. Football trumps ideology. And the NFL referee lockout is turning into a gigantic advertisement for organized labor. Conservatives have spent decades successfully associating labor unions with laziness and shoddy work. Here we have, broadcast into tens of millions of living rooms all autumn long, a high-profile example of an almost perfectly chosen case for unions. Management consists of multimillionaires commanding a wildly profitable and often publicly subsidized business, trying to squeeze its workforce in a way that’s utterly debilitating to the product.

"Scott Walker, Parker Fan, Now a Union Man"

 

[Mulli]

They work 1, maybe 2 days a week.. I am sure they have material to review going into the games, but lets get real, Work 2/5 of the calendar year, only a couple days a week.

Yes they probably deserve a slight raise, but these guys should not be millionaires.

Relative to what kind of money is being made by their employers, their salaries are drops in the bucket.

 

[Mulli]

Well, good. Because they're not. They do have an incredibly specialized set of skills and experience that (clearly) make them valuable in the marketplace. When you have a unique skill set, you get to charge what you want for the utilization of those skills.



"Scott Walker, Parker Fan, Now a Union Man"

From the above article:

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[CardsFan88]

They work 1, maybe 2 days a week.. I am sure they have material to review going into the games, but lets get real, Work 2/5 of the calendar year, only a couple days a week.

Yes they probably deserve a slight raise, but these guys should not be millionaires.

Well these guys have a skill that is hard to replace, that has value.

Actually lots of people are worth being millionaires, because a million dollars is squat now. People do realize that being a millionaire now is like being 1/10th as rich as it was 15-20 years ago? But in terms of purchasing power, more like 8 years ago.

People are valued for the skill (see scabs), the money involved in the operation (see billion dollar NFL), and what it take to pull these talented players in from their other jobs (like Roger G, many are professionals...laywers, doctors, etc).

So you have a mold of people with sharp minds AND quick minds. They know the rules, and can see the game at NFL speed. Plus they have to compete with their regular jobs for their time. These jobs are basically overtime, so you have to think of it like that too.

Besides 100-200k isn't a million.

Well, good. Because they're not. They do have an incredibly specialized set of skills and experience that (clearly) make them valuable in the marketplace. When you have a unique skill set, you get to charge what you want for the utilization of those skills.



"Scott Walker, Parker Fan, Now a Union Man"

Exactly.

 

[Buckybird]

Well, good. Because they're not. They do have an incredibly specialized set of skills and experience that (clearly) make them valuable in the marketplace. When you have a unique skill set, you get to charge what you want for the utilization of those skills.



"Scott Walker, Parker Fan, Now a Union Man"

Problem is the owners have the refs by the balls, even if the scab refs suck because there is football. I understand the real refs are making their case each game by watching this crap, but listening to comments like Jerry Jones backing these pricks, shows me how dug in the owners really are on this situation.