Alando Tucker + 2nd traded for Jason Hart

[Mainstreet]

Absolutely the bench play has been great. Where did we get them?
Dudley came in a trade,Lou was a street FA, Dragic and Barbosa 2nd round pick's.
I'm just concerned with where we're going to replenish the cupboard with the age of our core, the state of our scouting department and the manner in which we treat our draft picks. I realize i do tend to be negativeD) but....Just sayin.

I don't care about Tucker.

Barbosa was a first round pick obtained in a trade with SA.

 

[PhxGametime]

I was hoping the Suns Traded their three 2nd Rounders (not sure where i read that the Suns had 3) for a late 1st Rounder because this Draft is deep with PF's...


but oh well. lol

 

[mojorizen7]

Barbosa was a first round pick obtained in a trade with SA.

You're right,28th overall. Not sure why i thought different.

 

[Mainstreet]

I was hoping the Suns Traded their three 2nd Rounders (not sure where i read that the Suns had 3) for a late 1st Rounder because this Draft is deep with PF's...

Maybe the Suns did have three second round picks at one time (I read the same) but that is obviously not the case anymore especially with the trade of Tucker.

I'm inclined to believe the Suns could buy themselves back in the late first round of the draft if they were so inclined.

But what are the chances of that.

 

[dodie53]

the Minister of Health is gone

 

[Divide Et Impera]

:championship:

 

[elindholm]

Why do people keep bringing up Dragic? He was taken with a pick the Suns didn't have! That's how the second round works: Most teams don't really want anyone, so if any team sees a player they do want, they just move up to get him. The Suns didn't need to be holding a second-round pick to take Dragic; when the time came, they just made whatever minor move was necessary.

 

[Chaplin]

Absolutely the bench play has been great. Where did we get them?
Dudley came in a trade,Lou was a street FA, Dragic and Barbosa 2nd round pick's.
I'm just concerned with where we're going to replenish the cupboard with the age of our core, the state of our scouting department and the manner in which we treat our draft picks. I realize i do tend to be negativeD) but....Just sayin.

I don't care about Tucker.

I'm sorry, but Dragic is such a weak argument. Here are other 2nd rounders we've drafted:

2008: Malik Hairston
2007: D.j. Strawberry
2001: Alton Ford
1996: Russ Millard
1996: Ben Davis
1995: Chris Carr
1994: Charles Claxton
1994: Anthony Goldwire
1994: Antonio Lang
1993: Mark Buford
1993: Byron Wilson
1992: Ron Ellis
1992: Brian Davis
1991: Chad Gallagher

Sure, we drafted Stephen Jackson, Goran Dragic and Marcin Gortat in that period, but come on. That is 3, count them THREE, somewhat successful 2nd rounders in 18 years!! And Jackson and Gortat never even played for us (SJax was waived and Gortat was traded to Orlando). And this was back when our scouting department was pretty good.

 

[krazyasiankid]

I feel sorry for Tucker. The two seasons he's been here seems like a waste of his basketball talents. He would'vew getten way more PT in Europe or even China.

I dont see why the Suns just KEEP their draft picks, draft a player, and if the player turns out to be like DeJuan Blair or Chase Budinger, sign him. If not, dont sign him. Taking a risk here Suns. I bet you the pick will be used to draft a player that will turn out to be the next Rashard Lewis

 

[JCSunsfan]

I feel sorry for Tucker. The two seasons he's been here seems like a waste of his basketball talents. He would'vew getten way more PT in Europe or even China.

I dont see why the Suns just KEEP their draft picks, draft a player, and if the player turns out to be like DeJuan Blair or Chase Budinger, sign him. If not, dont sign him. Taking a risk here Suns. I bet you the pick will be used to draft a player that will turn out to be the next Rashard Lewis

The Suns save a little money and give Tucker a chance. He was not going to get minutes ahead of Dudley or even Clark. He will get a new chance in MN to break a line up. They were thinking of Tucker as much as they were the cap.

What are they saving, a million or so? At one time, I thought Hart was a pretty decent little player.

 

[JCSunsfan]

According to to the Suns press release, this move was made to clear a little space to pick up Collins for the rest of the season.

Yeah. That is probably worth it. Collins adds some quality depth and has given them good production when he has gotten minutes.

http://www.azcentral.com/sports/suns...ker-trade.html

Phoenix Suns trade Alando Tucker to Minnesota

by Paul Coro - Dec. 29, 2009 04:18 PM
The Arizona Republic

The Suns traded third-year guard Alando Tucker this afternoon to Minnesota in a move that will save nearly $1 million and allow them to keep Jarron Collins on the roster.

Phoenix traded Tucker and a conditional second-round pick to Minnesota for Jason Hart, a point guard with a non-guaranteed deal that the Suns will waive. Minnesota gets the Suns' second-round pick in the June draft unless it falls in the top 40. In that case, Minnesota would receive the Cleveland second-round pick that is owed to the Suns.

The Suns will pay the remainder of Tucker's $1.07 million salary and give the Timberwolves an additional $100,000. The Suns' savings come from how much less they will be taxed for being over the luxury tax threshold.

Collins' contract becomes fully guaranteed for the season Jan. 10 but he would have to have been waived by Jan. 6. Until the Tucker trade, the Suns were carrying an extra player over the 13-man roster minimum so waiving Collins was being considered to save money.

"We felt like Jarron was a valuable player for us to keep so we'd been talking to teams," Suns General Manager Steve Kerr said. "He's a great insurance policy, as he proved early in the season. He helped win a couple games when we had foul trouble or when Robin (Lopez) was injured. He's a great teammate and mentor for Robin. It's always important to have an experienced big in the playoffs who knows what he's doing. Whether he gets in a game or not, he's valuable because of his intangibles. He's a future coach if he wants to be."

Collins has not appeared in a game since Dec. 11 and only played 15 minutes this month.

The Suns made Tucker the 29th overall pick in the 2007 draft but he had never cracked the rotation in Phoenix. This season, he fell further out of the depth chart. He already was behind Jason Richardson and Leandro Barbosa at shooting guard but the Suns also have begun to use Goran Dragic and Jared Dudley at the off-guard position too. Tucker appeared in 47 games with the Suns over 2 1/2 seasons, averaging 4.3 points on 42.2 percent shooting. He was 1 for 7 on 3-pointers in 11 games this season.
"As much as we like Alando, he's just not going to crack the rotation," Kerr said. "This gives him a fresh start."

Once the Suns waive Hart, Phoenix will be at the 13-man roster minimum with Collins and rookie Taylor Griffin, the only players whose contracts were not guaranteed for the entire season.

 

[Griffin]

Why do people keep bringing up Dragic? He was taken with a pick the Suns didn't have! That's how the second round works: Most teams don't really want anyone, so if any team sees a player they do want, they just move up to get him. The Suns didn't need to be holding a second-round pick to take Dragic; when the time came, they just made whatever minor move was necessary.

Well, that minor move involved the Suns trading two second-round picks to get the pick that they used to draft Dragic, including one that was around four picks later in the same draft. One could argue that even without those picks the Suns could have simply bought a draft pick, but we all know that is very unlikely. That's why, imo, it is wise to hold onto your assets, because you never know when you can turn them into something that benefits the team on the basketball court.

According to to the Suns press release, this move was made to clear a little space to pick up Collins for the rest of the season.

Which is true, although of course the Suns could have kept Collins regardless of this trade, but it would have cost them $1M more.

Again, in the big picture, this trade doesn't really matter that much. We were already paying two players to play for other teams, why not make it three. I just disagree with the overall philosophy of using your basketball assets like draft picks in order to cover operating expenses. And something tells me we haven't seen the end of it yet.

 

[mojorizen7]

I'm sorry, but Dragic is such a weak argument. Here are other 2nd rounders we've drafted:

2008: Malik Hairston
2007: D.j. Strawberry
2001: Alton Ford
1996: Russ Millard
1996: Ben Davis
1995: Chris Carr
1994: Charles Claxton
1994: Anthony Goldwire
1994: Antonio Lang
1993: Mark Buford
1993: Byron Wilson
1992: Ron Ellis
1992: Brian Davis
1991: Chad Gallagher

Sure, we drafted Stephen Jackson, Goran Dragic and Marcin Gortat in that period, but come on. That is 3, count them THREE, somewhat successful 2nd rounders in 18 years!! And Jackson and Gortat never even played for us (SJax was waived and Gortat was traded to Orlando). And this was back when our scouting department was pretty good.

My argument was concerning 2nd rd picks in general,not just the SUNS picks. Dragic may have been a borderline example but who's the backup here if we don't have Dragic?

Also concerning your SUNS list, yeah there are some very insignificant names there.....go back a couple more years and you'll find a few 2nd rd SUNS gems though. You know of whom i'm speaking of....i wonder if you stopped at '91 on purpose .

Again, my original concern is how the SUNS plan on replenishing this team in the future. Not sure why that simple concern gets put thru the ringer and spun into "we don't need our 2nd rd picks." 2nd rd picks are a smaller part of the equation but IMO they cannot be treated like pocket change.

I'd like to see us improve our scouting and become more disciplined in the way with which we trade,ignore,aquire,re-aquire and use our draft picks.

 

[elindholm]

One could argue that even without those picks the Suns could have simply bought a draft pick, but we all know that is very unlikely.

We do? Do you mean it's unlikely that it would be possible, or unlikely that the Suns would shell out the cash? I disagree either way, since the Suns knew they would be committing extra cash to Dragic's buyout.

That's why, imo, it is wise to hold onto your assets

But cash is an asset too.

I just disagree with the overall philosophy of using your basketball assets like draft picks in order to cover operating expenses.

It depends a lot on the likely value of the pick. Late second-round picks are as close to worthless as it gets, in spite of the fact that once every five years someone finds a good player there. It's basically like using scratch lottery tickets in order to pay off a real debt -- sure, the tickets might be worth something, but over the long run you'll make money recognizing their limited value.

 

[JCSunsfan]

We do? Do you mean it's unlikely that it would be possible, or unlikely that the Suns would shell out the cash? I disagree either way, since the Suns knew they would be committing extra cash to Dragic's buyout.



But cash is an asset too.



It depends a lot on the likely value of the pick. Late second-round picks are as close to worthless as it gets, in spite of the fact that once every five years someone finds a good player there. It's basically like using scratch lottery tickets in order to pay off a real debt -- sure, the tickets might be worth something, but over the long run you'll make money recognizing their limited value.

And its a PROTECTED second rounder. So its even worth less than a typical second rounder. What is a team going to do with 3 second round rookies anyway?

Now, if the FO could learn to protect 1st round picks.

 

[slinslin]

Next year we will give up a 2011 unconditional first round pick to trade Taylor Griffin.

 

[Chaplin]

My argument was concerning 2nd rd picks in general,not just the SUNS picks. Dragic may have been a borderline example but who's the backup here if we don't have Dragic?

EVERY other team has a list exactly like this!

Also concerning your SUNS list, yeah there are some very insignificant names there.....go back a couple more years and you'll find a few 2nd rd SUNS gems though. You know of whom i'm speaking of....i wonder if you stopped at '91 on purpose .

Yeah, and look what happened to THAT pick. Again, a tiny handful in 20 years.

Again, my original concern is how the SUNS plan on replenishing this team in the future. Not sure why that simple concern gets put thru the ringer and spun into "we don't need our 2nd rd picks." 2nd rd picks are a smaller part of the equation but IMO they cannot be treated like pocket change.

I'd like to see us improve our scouting and become more disciplined in the way with which we trade,ignore,aquire,re-aquire and use our draft picks.

In my opinion, trading and free agency are the best way to improve the team, A LOT more than some distant late 2nd rounder.

 

[Chaplin]

Next year we will give up a 2011 unconditional first round pick to trade Taylor Griffin.

Can't. I think you have to figure in the past--the rule is that you can't have 2 straight years without a 1st round pick. We don't have one in 2010, so we have to have one in 2011.

I know you're being sarcastic, but your above scenario makes no sense anyway. You don't trade a guy with an non-guaranteed rookie contract just to get the money off the books.

 

[slinslin]

No, you only can't trade two straight future picks. You can trade the 2011 one in 2010/2011 even if you didnt have yours in the 2010 draft.

 

[Errntknght]

Can't. I think you have to figure in the past--the rule is that you can't have 2 straight years without a 1st round pick. We don't have one in 2010, so we have to have one in 2011.

I know you're being sarcastic, but your above scenario makes no sense anyway. You don't trade a guy with an non-guaranteed rookie contract just to get the money off the books.

That isn't quite the rule Chap. You are allowed to trade away your first round pick every year if you want. What the rule prohibits is trading away future 1st round draft picks in two consecutive years. Lacking a 2010 pick we cannot trade away our 2011 pick now, but as soon as the 2010 draft is history we can trade away our 2011 pick. IIRC, we are even allowed to make a deal with a team now in which we agree to trading the player we draft in 2011 for current considerations, like a player. The agreement can state that they can dictate the player we choose in 2011.

 

[Chaplin]

No, you only can't trade two straight future picks. You can trade the 2011 one in 2010/2011 even if you didnt have yours in the 2010 draft.

I stand corrected.

My 2nd point still stands though.

 

[krazyasiankid]

He's a great teammate and mentor for Robin. .

How bad a basketball player do you have to be to have Jaron Collins as your mentor?

 

[AfroSuns]

How bad a basketball player do you have to be to have Jaron Collins as your mentor?

FAIL!!!!!!
If we go by your reasoning then only very good basketball players make good coaches

 

[Chaplin]

FAIL!!!!!!
If we go by your reasoning then only very good basketball players make good coaches

Yep, must be. I don't know, if Lebron James was my coach, I'd probably kill myself.

 

[JCSunsfan]

EVERY other team has a list exactly like this!



Yeah, and look what happened to THAT pick. Again, a tiny handful in 20 years.



In my opinion, trading and free agency are the best way to improve the team, A LOT more than some distant late 2nd rounder.

Interesting. Free agency is often expensive for top players. But then a #6 pick like Channing Frye ends up floating around. It seems you could do well picking up big men that other teams give up on too soon.