All is Not Lost

[Krangodnzr]

Let's pump the brakes here.

1) Football is a team sport. Individual performances can be good and the team can be bad -- even very bad. Happens all the time. CF most of Larry Fitzgerald's career.

2) One thing I'm glad not to see is weird shotgun snaps to nowhere. To me, that's a big improvement over Billy Price and late-vintage Rodney Hudson. I'm honestly not qualified to say he's better or worse than Sendlein or Shipley. I didn't expect Froholdt to be as good as those guys, and so far he's been at least as good.

Froholdt may not be part of the long-term solution, but he's definitely not part of the short-term problem. That's a good start.

Eh I think, so far, he's better than Sendlein and Shipley.

This board complained (for good reason) incessantly about how both of those guys weren't good players their entire Cardinals career. I always felt that both were at best adequate players, and from what I've seen so far, Froholdt actually makes big blocks in the run game.

That slingshot block to spring Rondale against the Cowboys was a big time block, and you're seeing guys who know OL play specifically pointing out how good Froholdt has been.

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[Crimson Warrior]

During his starts, he was probably a top 5 center at the time. You could argue top 10. Although his production dropped off quite a bit the 2nd half of that year.

Sendlein or any other center wasn't anywhere close that to type of production. Pete Kendall? There's no point in even trying to convince you.

I think you're on the right track DCR. Hudson was part of the reason we started so well in 2021. He transformed the offensive line. He was like a wrecking ball.

Then he got hurt, I believe starting with the DET game? And the rest is history.

 

[PACardsFan]

I don’t know, sendlein spent a lot of his playing time in the backfield.

Exactly. He would get driven back into our QB on a regular basis. Froholdt is significantly stronger.

 

[Outerlimits]

And you do not see Frodholdt pushed four yards into the backfield in pass protection like we saw with several of the guys we've had a C over the last several years (save Hudson, who when he played was above average).

OL play is hard to judge, but all the available empirical evidence suggest Frodholt playing at a C+ or B level through five games.

A C+ or B level is certainly far better than the colossal disaster everyone was claiming he would be just weeks ago.

 

[BACH]

Hudson was our best center. Even if he only performed that way for about a year and a half, he was head and shoulders above Sendlein or any other center we have trotted out there.

This shouldn't be a debate.

I’ll certainly also debate it.
Hudson was an all-Pro C and the Best passblocking C in the league. When Healthy.

Of course Froholdt is not at that level in pass-protection and at that level Hudson showed for about Half of his first season with the Cardinals.

Run-blocking however is were Froholdt shines. He is as Good run blocker and Absolutely amazing to reach the 2nd level and finish blocks.

Froholdt is not at same level at All-Pro Hudson Raiders level. But his play so far is at solid to Above average starter level. I’m not sure We Can look at Hudson Any better If We look at his entire period with the Cards.

But again. Small sample size so far.

Froholdt Ranks #19 in the league Per pff.

 

[BACH]

Pretty dumb? First of all I never said that - but anyways - what do you call declaring Froholdt some kind of FroGOAT 5 games into a dismal season? Because 3 penalties in 5 games doesn't speak greatness to me. People keep talking about Froholdt helping others - then why are Wilkinson and Colon still performing so badly? I think it's because the gap in between our Center and LG is our weak spot. I also don't see your boy identifying where the pressure is coming from - resulting in multiple defenders getting to the QB before our own RB does

I'm gonna stop now - but honestly it's hard when some are already hanging this guy's jersey in the ring of honor

You do realize that it’s the center that gets flagged for procedure errors on other players, right?

If my memory serves me correctly there has Been at least one If not Two of those. Not on Froholdt. He just happens to snap the Ball

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I think people just like saying Froholdt

 

[BirdGangThing]

You do realize that it’s the center that gets flagged for procedure errors on other players, right?

If my memory serves me correctly there has Been at least one If not Two of those. Not on Froholdt. He just happens to snap the Ball

I don't think that's how it goes amigo

 

[Card4Life]

We've never had a good Center and we still don't

For us old timers, Tom Banks says hi...

 

[LarryStalling]

For us old timers, Tom Banks says hi...

I was thinking the same time the last half of this thread. One thing I will say is that he had 2 great guards playing beside him.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

I’ll certainly also debate it.
Hudson was an all-Pro C and the Best passblocking C in the league. When Healthy.

Of course Froholdt is not at that level in pass-protection and at that level Hudson showed for about Half of his first season with the Cardinals.

Run-blocking however is were Froholdt shines. He is as Good run blocker and Absolutely amazing to reach the 2nd level and finish blocks.

Froholdt is not at same level at All-Pro Hudson Raiders level. But his play so far is at solid to Above average starter level. I’m not sure We Can look at Hudson Any better If We look at his entire period with the Cards.

But again. Small sample size so far.

Froholdt Ranks #19 in the league Per pff.

So you agree with me, because he was healthy the first year and a half. Thanks.

 

[Cheesebeef]

So you agree with me, because he was healthy the first year and a half. Thanks.

what are you talking about? He missed 5 games in 2021 and then was done after 4 games in 2022.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

On top of that, he was nowhere near a pro-bowler with us, and his snapping into shotgun wasn't just bad, it was disastrous. How many times did he fire it over Kyler's head, or completely off target?

 

[Proximo]

Pretty dumb? First of all I never said that - but anyways - what do you call declaring Froholdt some kind of FroGOAT 5 games into a dismal season? Because 3 penalties in 5 games doesn't speak greatness to me. People keep talking about Froholdt helping others - then why are Wilkinson and Colon still performing so badly? I think it's because the gap in between our Center and LG is our weak spot. I also don't see your boy identifying where the pressure is coming from - resulting in multiple defenders getting to the QB before our own RB does

I'm gonna stop now - but honestly it's hard when some are already hanging this guy's jersey in the ring of honor

I never called Froholdt great. I said he was the best center I have ever seen on the Cards. But I think every center the cards have ever had has been below average. Literally I am calling him an average center - which IMO is still the best the Cards have ever had.

 

[BirdGangThing]

I never called Froholdt great. I said he was the best center I have ever seen on the Cards. But I think every center the cards have ever had has been below average. Literally I am calling him an average center - which IMO is still the best the Cards have ever had.

How is a Center who leads the league in penalties the best the Cardinals have ever had? And I don't know what he has to do to be credited with a sack because I've seen him give up 2 now. He goes to help out our LG with their assignment - the defense waits for it and then comes right up the middle. They run right by him. FroGOAT might be one of the better run blocking Centers we've had in Arizona but that's about it vato

 

[Chopper0080]

I’ll debate it. He started exactly 16 games in AZ. He consistently snapped the ball over Kyler’s head.

Pete Kendall was better. Change my mind.

Loved Pete Kendall. One of the better FA signings IMO> Fun fact, his kid is draft eligible or will be next if I recall correctly.

 

[Chopper0080]

During his starts, he was probably a top 5 center at the time. You could argue top 10. Although his production dropped off quite a bit the 2nd half of that year.

Sendlein or any other center wasn't anywhere close that to type of production. Pete Kendall? There's no point in even trying to convince you.

Hudson was not a top 5 player when he was in AZ. Like watching Emmitt Smith in AZ vs Dallas.

 

[Harry]

How is a Center who leads the league in penalties the best the Cardinals have ever had? And I don't know what he has to do to be credited with a sack because I've seen him give up 2 now. He goes to help out our LG with their assignment - the defense waits for it and then comes right up the middle. They run right by him. FroGOAT might be one of the better run blocking Centers we've had in Arizona but that's about it vato

I not yet sold on Froholdt, but those sacks are at least partially the fault of Wilkinson. How he is still on the field I don’t get? He’s a mountain of a man with the same degree of mobility!

 

[BirdGangThing]

I not yet sold on Froholdt, but those sacks are at least partially the fault of Wilkinson. How he is still on the field I don’t get? He’s a mountain of a man with the same degree of mobility!

In both (pass pro) instances Fro-Yo hikes the ball and immediately goes to his left - attempting to seal the gap in between he and help whoever's playing LG - which is fine if you're running play action with your back taking up that middle space immediately - or setting up a screen to the left - but that's not what happens

FroGOAT unnecessarily goes to his left - Hernandez pretty much stays in his slot - front door is left wide open - defender comes in untouched causing the Dobbs effect to take place

 

[Krangodnzr]

In both (pass pro) instances Fro-Yo hikes the ball and immediately goes to his left - attempting to seal the gap in between he and whoever's playing LG - which is fine if you're running play action with your back taking up that middle space immediately - or setting up a screen to the left - but that's not what happens

FroGOAT unnecessarily goes to his left - Hernandez pretty much stays in his slot - front door is left wide open - defender comes in untouched causing the Dobbs effect to take place

This is what happens when everyone on the OL knows that a certain position is struggling.

 

[BirdGangThing]

This is what happens when everyone on the OL knows that a certain position is struggling.

This is what happens when we make excuses for a Center who's already leading the league in penalties

If our Left Guard is pushing the defender to his left - that's good for pass protection - and Fro-Yo should stay put and occupy the middle

If our Left Guard was just straight up losing ground - that's when Fro-Yo should help - but that's not what's happening

Fro-Yo needs to do better - and disengage on the double team as soon as it becomes counter productive

 

[Stout]

This is what happens when everyone on the OL knows that a certain position is struggling.

It's also what happens when your center clearly fails to read the stunt.

 

[kerouac9]

This is what happens when everyone on the OL knows that a certain position is struggling.

I think this is part of the reason why we're not seeing the best of the Captain, either.

 

[BirdGangThing]

I think this is part of the reason why we're not seeing the best of the Captain, either.

I have a Hump jersey somewhere in my closet but homie has just been getting beat flat out - one on one style - and he's done fine in the past playing next to dog poo

 

[Krangodnzr]

I have a Hump jersey somewhere in my closet but homie has just been getting beat flat out - one on one style - and he's done fine in the past playing next to dog poo

This is a statement from someone who doesn't get that when you know the guy next to you is going to get beat on a lot of plays, you tend to make mistakes.

You clearly outlined a situation in your earlier post that demonstrated this but in your bias to try and take down Froholdt, you clearly aren't seeing the reality of the situation.

As you have been told before (and conveniently ignore) a few of those penalties are procedural penalties that are called on the center when they happen.