Am I the only one thinking it??? The SK in "Bask" should go as well

[SoCal Cardfan]

I think Keim is vastly overrated.... He gets props among a lot of us...because face it, We had the human-snail before him, A fairly easy act to follow... I like that he seems to stay busy, and doesn't sleep during business hours, But his draft picks have quite honestly SUCKED.

Could we do worse? Yes, and we did for years... But quite frankly I think we could do a LOT better.... I'm not a draft expert, but I do follow this team pretty damn closely, But without looking it up, I can't tell you a SK first round draft pick that means jack or shiat.

Was there one??

 

[DevonCardsFan]

When board members are drafting better that's a bad sign

 

[vince56]

While he's had some stinkers, the 2015 draft would like to have a word with you. Simply AWESOME draft that year.

Also, he was the first GM we had to do the 1 year deals for FAs, that has proved to get us a TON of production from guys like Karlos Dansby and Antonio Cromartie over the past few years, guys that have seriously helped our team.

He got us the premier pass rusher in the NFL for a 2nd round pick. He traded a bag of peanuts for Carson Palmer, and then signed Veldheer and Iupati, who before this year were actually very solid for us.

He's an NFL exec of the year. I just don't think you're looking past the draft enough.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

2015:

David Johnson and???? That falls into "Even a blind squirrel finds a nut" territory IMO.

Veldheer was mostly a solid signing, Iupati seemed to be hurt more than healthy (IIRC)

Given what we fielded for QB's... Palmer could be seen as a God-send, but again... injuries and playoff performance muddies up even that move for me.
I'm well aware we could have done much worse... But Palmer didn't do anything that we'll remember a few years from now... And worse yet, he was probably the one guy who could have mentored a younger QB.... But Bask never drafted that guy.

 

[Jetstream Green]

What is clear to me is that this front office and coach act as one. Keim drafted in unison with Arians, which means some of those draft fails had to do with the coach having a large say so. This unity also makes for positives as well which seemed to revolve more around free agents acquired than Arians' opinion of the draft, but known players in the league. The Front Office meshes with the coach here more than some places and why they are probably taking their time deciding on the new head coach... btw, you will always be able to say board members draft better because the board seems to have different opinions and at least one group will get something right to prove your point lol

 

[oaken1]

BA was SK's first run. we dont know how much or what input BA had in those draft picks...I feel fairly certain BA had a lot of input into the Logan Thomas selection for example.

not to mention... we have suffered from some coaching issues. Guys like Watford, Cooper, and Boehm looked like solid players in the making during their limited play in the rookie years... but then proceeded to get progressively worse every year we had them on the team...
then there is the player position carousel... a fricking fiasco... we draft a safety then play him at LBer, then we draft a DE, convert him to ILB, right when he looks like he might be getting it...we swap him over to OLB...... having versatile players is a great asset and all but at some frickin point you have to let a rookie learn a damned position... they did the same with the oline bouncing guys around from RG to RT then LG.... its a pretty sure recipe for ruining a young player...
SK's drafting may be better than it has looked...

yeah,... I realize it sounds crazy... but in my limited coaching time I have taken kids other coaches said were worthless and made all stars out of them... not every coaching approach works for every player and some coaches refuse to change their style, they just insist if a player cant cut it then the player is weak and will never learn.

Lets let SK work with another coaching staff and see what happens

 

[az jam]

I like Keim. His trades and moves in free agency have been excellent. He has drafted some good players and missed on some. I think that is typical of most GMs. He and BA teamed very well. This year will be critical with the hiring of a new HC and the need for a QB.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Arians is gone and some are happy. Some want Peterson gone. Palmer is gone and some are looking forward to a year(s) of the likes of Case Keenum/Sam Bradford. Now Keim should be replaced too???? Why don't we get rid of Fitz and we'll have wiped away all that's been good about the Cards lately.

 

[BillsCarnage]

Should he go? Nope.
Is he overrated? That debatable, but the Cards are coming off their most successful 5yr stretch ever. Ever. For a franchise that is pushing 120, that's pretty sad.

Most GMs that are remotely competent usually get two or three coaches during their regime.

To me it's less about the on field product and more about the franchise culture as a whole. Look at the state of the franchise in 2012 and pretty much pre-UoP; it was sad.

The BASK combo built their teams with vets and to win now. It wasn't a coaching staff really built to develop youngsters. Let's wait and see how the new staff is built.

I think as fans we get a little paranoid that the Cards will revert back to the 90's Cards. But, I just don't see that happening anytime soon. This franchise is now a choice destination, has great facilities and a solid front office.

Is Keim perfect? Nope, but I'll take him over any previous GM and as a great compliment to Micheal.

 

[Finito]

Aren't we coming off the most successful run in the history of this franchise????

We've won double digit games in 3 of the last 5 years and finished 8-8 this year with Palmer, DJ and your entire offensive line not there that's a damn miracle. People just lose sight of how hard it is to win in the NFL.

The more this team has won the more jaded some fans get and they think it's there birth right to win 10+ games a year.

Dude were rebuilding and in a damn good position to rebuild.

Draft hindsight is 20/20. Take a guy like Cooper. Look at that draft

1 Eric Fischer
2 Luke Joekl
3 Dion Jordan
4 Lane Johnson
5 Ziggy Ansah
6 Barkivous Mingo
7 Jonathon Cooper
8 Tavon Austin
9 Dee Milliner
10 Chance Warmack

That draft was F'ing horrible. Cooper had the highest rating for a guard in like the last 20 years he was considered the safest pick in the draft. It was the right pick to make but now it's cool to be like oh I wanted (instert random player who was selected in the 20s that panned out) we should of taken him.

Don't give me the you don't draft a guard that high BS if you get a player that grades out at all time great status and considered blue chip you draft that guy.

I blame BA for Bucannon. He was a monster SS at Washington State. Finished his career with 384 tackles and 15 INTs he was a killer then Dansby leaves and Washington goes off the deep end and it's like hey can you gain 25lbs and play middle linebacker for us? K thanks.

IF you compare our drafts to pretty much the rest of the NFL it's actually pretty good

The question is who you gonna get better? The good franchises don't have a lot of turnover in the front office that's what bad teams do

 

[JeffGollin]

I've been following the NFL for 70 years and have seen my share of sucky moves by the Cardinals and other front offices.

Any arm chair QB can pull out one or two isolated examples of good or bad personnel moves and then use those examples to "prove" that a front office is (a) amazing or (b) dumb.

Rather than cherrypick dumb or cagey draft picks (because luck plays so big a part), I think we'd be well-advised to focus on process - i.e. how is the FO organized? How do they make key decisions? In what ways has the organization, roster etc grown, regressed or stayed the same etc.

In this regard, I think SK has improved the Card organization both in football and non-football ways and has been more proactive in attempting to fix what's broke.

Has he been 100% effective in achieving franchise goals. Well...we haven't won a Super Bowl or consistently led our division. But, overall, SK has been a solid GM who's generally made the right moves, learns from his mistakes and hasn't done many dumb things.

We have as good or better shot at success with SK than we do with anyone else. Keep him.

 

[cardpa]

In my opinion he was too close to Arians and didn't have the testicular fortitude to tell Arians no when he should have done so. I am hoping he will exert his influence better now that Arians is gone. Also Arians should be a complete break from the team not acting as an adviser or in any other capacity.

 

[Mitch]

In my opinion he was too close to Arians and didn't have the testicular fortitude to tell Arians no when he should have done so. I am hoping he will exert his influence better now that Arians is gone. Also Arians should be a complete break from the team not acting as an adviser or in any other capacity.

100% agree. It's time for Keim to wear his big boy's pants. No more "little brother."

 

[Solar7]

It's easy to myopically say that his first round picks have been bad, but let's be honest: he hasn't had a top ten pick since his first year at GM. Kinda hard to hit on a star player in that case.

I say be careful what you wish for.

 

[football karma]

I have been critical of Keim, but this is too early.

I think its a giant step to go from the guy advising on who should be drafted to the guy making the call. it sounds small but it isnt. It doesnt help that his role model during his career wasnt Ron Wolf or Bill Polian. Keim made that step, and hopefully, has learned his lessons.

Fewer athletic projections that swing for the fences -- sometimes high floor players like Marcus Golden have more ceiling than it appears

 

[Arz101]

Jeebus

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[AZ Native]

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[Stout]

Keim has had positives, and has run the ship for the best stretch in Cards history. That ain't saying much, but it's true. Great trade for Chandler Jones, and some good FA pick ups--not as much lately, though. Too much reliance on aging, overpriced players. That can be forgiven, to a certain extent; I think Arians had FAR too much of an influence, and that Keim should have absolutely put his foot down this season and put the team first, instead of tilting at windmills for an ill-fated 'go for it' season.

That leads to the draft. He HAS to do better in the draft. He has to stop taking stupid reaches for project players rounds too early, and has to stop drafting redshirt and/or not-ready-to-play first rounders. Bluntly put, if his drafting doesn't improve, this team is going to nosedive. If he doesn't learn that lesson and has another stinker draft leading to another down year, he MUST be fired.

I originally wanted a clean sweep when Arians left, but I'm willing to give Keim the benefit of the doubt now. Perhaps his recent shortcomings as a GM are because he was swayed too much by Arians. Perhaps. We'll see, and we'll see a lot this season under a new HC.

 

[oaken1]

Keim has had positives, and has run the ship for the best stretch in Cards history. That ain't saying much, but it's true. Great trade for Chandler Jones, and some good FA pick ups--not as much lately, though. Too much reliance on aging, overpriced players. That can be forgiven, to a certain extent; I think Arians had FAR too much of an influence, and that Keim should have absolutely put his foot down this season and put the team first, instead of tilting at windmills for an ill-fated 'go for it' season.

That leads to the draft. He HAS to do better in the draft. He has to stop taking stupid reaches for project players rounds too early, and has to stop drafting redshirt and/or not-ready-to-play first rounders. Bluntly put, if his drafting doesn't improve, this team is going to nosedive. If he doesn't learn that lesson and has another stinker draft leading to another down year, he MUST be fired.

I originally wanted a clean sweep when Arians left, but I'm willing to give Keim the benefit of the doubt now. Perhaps his recent shortcomings as a GM are because he was swayed too much by Arians. Perhaps. We'll see, and we'll see a lot this season under a new HC.

true.
my philosophy on the draft has always been that players picked in the first three rounds will see significant roles in their rookie season...first rounders should be starting,...at least by the middle of the season.
after the third round I dont give too many ***** about whether or not they draft a project


and in the first round "attitude" is huge...has to be there... the kid has to love playing football

 

[Stout]

true.
my philosophy on the draft has always been that players picked in the first three rounds will see significant roles in their rookie season...first rounders should be starting,...at least by the middle of the season.
after the third round I dont give too many ***** about whether or not they draft a project


and in the first round "attitude" is huge...has to be there... the kid has to love playing football

Well, that never used to be my philosophy; I used to blast the idea of counting on 1st rounders to start from the get go. But the league changed a lot with parity and modern FA, and you're 100 percent spot on. Huge risks in the first round, and huge risks in the top 3 rounds, have absolutely KILLED us. Keim MUST stop trying to be the smartest guy in the league that thinks he sees things all the other GMs have missed; he MUST draft smarter in the top rounds.

You're also right about rounds 4 and on. While I reserve my right to bitch as a fan, you're right

 

[oaken1]

Well, that never used to be my philosophy; I used to blast the idea of counting on 1st rounders to start from the get go. But the league changed a lot with parity and modern FA, and you're 100 percent spot on. Huge risks in the first round, and huge risks in the top 3 rounds, have absolutely KILLED us. Keim MUST stop trying to be the smartest guy in the league that thinks he sees things all the other GMs have missed; he MUST draft smarter in the top rounds.

You're also right about rounds 4 and on. While I reserve my right to bitch as a fan, you're right

expecting rookies to start gets into the "need Vs BPA" discussion... I have always been about drafting BPA... but if BPA is a OG, and you have two pro bowl guards you draft elsewhere as long as there isnt a huge drop in talent...if there is, then you trade back...


wow... I just thought about that..

Imagine what it would be like to have multiple pro bowlers on the oline..so many we could afford to pass on a stud lineman in the first round...

damn.... kinda gave me a chubby...uh,..almost

and of course bitching rights are always reserved... there are just times your GM is an idiot for no other reason than "somebody" is a damned idiot and he is the easiest target.

 

[gimpy]

Keep him. Why should you even bring the subject up?

 

[Cheesebeef]

Arians is gone and some are happy. Some want Peterson gone. Palmer is gone and some are looking forward to a year(s) of the likes of Case Keenum/Sam Bradford. Now Keim should be replaced too???? Why don't we get rid of Fitz and we'll have wiped away all that's been good about the Cards lately.

ONE wants Peterson gone.

I think overall, Keim gets a B. major points for hiring BA, Palmer, some good free agent deals and a great trade for Jones. He was prob at an A through three seasons but his last two have been C and our drafts are pretty awful outside a couple stars and I worry about him drafting in a really big beginning of a rebuild but he gets another regime to try and raise before I can legit call for his head.

 

[Mitch]

ZERO. I never said I wanted PP gone. I suggested that if we wanted to get into the top 3 to draft the QBOF that it may take including Peterson. That's a recognition of his star power.

What I want is the Cardinals to bring in a coach who can help Peterson and Mathieu take their all-around games to a championship caliber level.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

One playoff win in 5 years.

Some of you were so used to eating crap sandwiches for decades, that all it took was a little mayo on it to make it gourmet.