Amare: Old or New?

[Rab]

Which Amare was better? I present the youtube highlights to help aid you in your decision.

Amare of old. Before the knee surgery, Amare was one of the freakiest athletes I had ever seen. Still very raw in the way of low post basketball moves, Amare was still able to dominate with his quickness, power, and leaping ability. He only needed a couple of steps before he unleashed his fury in a big time way. Two of my favorite Amare dunks are shown in the clip below. Both happen to be on Adonal Foyle in the same game against GS, but that is just an example of how scary this guy was.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=loBXjSw8UHE

Amare of the new. Coming off two knee surgeries, one of which was the dreaded microfracture surgery, Amare Version II looks like a whole new player. Still freakishly athletic, you can see in his hops as well as how he moved were just not the same. He seems more calm, only being able to unleash at times, instead of at will. Though the injury certainly took away some of his athletic ability, I feel the knee injury forced him to become a better all around player. I feel he was more fundamental, and though I miss the brash, overpowering Amare, I feel in the long run that this injury could make him the better overall player. One can only hope that his knees hold up.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8f7NfUJScCo

 

[azirish]

These videos are fun, but not terribly helpful in considering the whole season. I thought Amare was beginning to look close to being all the way back by the playoffs, but it's hard to tell.

The big plus is that he is less likely to try to dunk on really tall guys like Yao anymore. He'd get into these personal battles that distracted from playing the game.

 

[scoutmasterdave]

The only thing I really miss about the pre-surgery Amare is the initial explosiveness and quickness. He could really blow by people on the dribble, and that was lacking last year. Seeing him go right by Duncan repeatedly in that video was fun to watch. If he regains that this year, after another summer working on his game, he could truly be unstoppable.

 

[Rab]

These videos are fun, but not terribly helpful in considering the whole season. I thought Amare was beginning to look close to being all the way back by the playoffs, but it's hard to tell.

The big plus is that he is less likely to try to dunk on really tall guys like Yao anymore. He'd get into these personal battles that distracted from playing the game.

I more or less posted them so you can tell the difference in how he moved then and now. It's hard to gain a perspective one way or the other in terms of his entire game, but explosiveness and power were his main weapons pre-surgery, so I thought it'd be most relevant.

 

[Cheesebeef]

if Amare hadn't gotten hurt, he would be the best offensive player in the NBA today. I don't know why some people think he wouldn't have continued to get better without the surgery. The guy has proven over and over again, no matter what the circumstances that, he's going to work on his game until he's the best player in the world. He would have done just as much work on his game with or without the injury and I still think Amare pre-injury was the better offensive player, by far.

 

[Rab]

if Amare hadn't gotten hurt, he would be the best offensive player in the NBA today. I don't know why some people think he wouldn't have continued to get better without the surgery. The guy has proven over and over again, no matter what the circumstances that, he's going to work on his game until he's the best player in the world. He would have done just as much work on his game with or without the injury and I still think Amare pre-injury was the better offensive player, by far.

He would've gotten better, but this injury forced him to not rely completely on being an athletic freak, and helped him find more ways to score the ball. Maybe a little longer term Amare would've improved, but as for the now, the injury has helped add more to his game.

 

[azirish]

It is hard to know. IMHO, a year of healthy playing would have done more for Amare's skill set than rehab. It may have helped him become more mature, but I think his pride would have kept him working on his game.

In any case, I think he will keep getting better. He's got too much pride to let Dwight Howard and Chris Bosh make him look bad, so I think his defense is going to be a big priority with Team USA.

 

[elindholm]

He would've gotten better, but this injury forced him to not rely completely on being an athletic freak, and helped him find more ways to score the ball.

Cheesebeef's point is that Stoudemire is motivated enough that he would have learned those things even had he not gotten injured, and I agree. I really don't think there's any way you can argue that crippling a professional athlete in his early 20s works to his advantage. Otherwise, you'd see guys signing up for discretionary microfracture in the hope it would improve their games.

 

[Cheesebeef]

He would've gotten better, but this injury forced him to not rely completely on being an athletic freak, and helped him find more ways to score the ball. Maybe a little longer term Amare would've improved, but as for the now, the injury has helped add more to his game.

I think you underestimate Amare's drive to simply the best player of all time, which is what I believe his drive has always been. I don't think he would have relied on anything except the knowledge that he wasn't a champion and wasn't best player alive yet and thus, nothing would have stopped him from continuing to work on every aspect of his game. JMO.

 

[CaptainInsano]

I dunno about him being like the old amare offensively next year, I believe in an article posted a while ago Coach pretty much tells amare not to use very many explosive spin moves because that is what puts the most strain on his knees.

For me what I would like to see is him try to perfect his defense so that he doesn't foul as much against players like duncan, even though that is mostly the refs fault for calling horribly stupid fouls but only when it is against duncan. Either call it for everybody or don't call it, amare was really taken by surprise when the refs were whistling him all game vs duncan that much was obvious.

I do still think though that enough adjusment could be done for amare to be able to D up decently on duncan.

 

[Cheesebeef]

It is hard to know. IMHO, a year of healthy playing would have done more for Amare's skill set than rehab. It may have helped him become more mature, but I think his pride would have kept him working on his game.

In any case, I think he will keep getting better. He's got too much pride to let Dwight Howard and Chris Bosh make him look bad, so I think his defense is going to be a big priority with Team USA.

i agree with this as well.

bottom line though, if Amare hadn't gotten injured, I think we're two-time champs by now. The kid was on his way to being the single most unstoppable offense force the league has seen since a motivated Shaquille O'Neal and his unmatched drive would have kept pushing him forward to get better on defense, if only marginally enough to get us to a title.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

The fact that it's a dead heat right now shows what a spectacular player he is regardless of then-or-now

Black Jesus for President!

 

[elindholm]

The fact that it's a dead heat right now shows what a spectacular player he is regardless of then-or-now

I suppose that's one interpretation.

 

[Cheesebeef]

i'll say this, I can't wait to watch next year to see if Amare gets back any more of that pop/quickness that he lost. We saw it in decent pockets throughout the season and more in the playoffs, but I'm really curious to see if he continues to improve, hopefully exponentially by next season.

anyone know if any of the qualifying games for the Olympics are on TV this summer?

 

[nash2stouds]

I really think Amare will return to his athletic form next season and will be a better player than he was last year or two years earlier.

 

[azirish]

I really think Amare will return to his athletic form next season and will be a better player than he was last year or two years earlier.

They'll need it all. With the way the Spurs try to defense the Suns, the Suns need Amare to play like he did in the 2004-05 WCF.

 

[Chaplin]

His improvement in his defense trumps that extra point and a half on his offensive stats sells me.

 

[Cheesebeef]

His improvement in his defense trumps that extra point and a half on his offensive stats sells me.

extra point and a half? didn't he average in the regular season that year 26 ppg versus 20 this year and 30 ppg two years ago versus 25 ppg in the playoffs? and didn't he average more blocks back then versus this year? His rebounding is a better, but it's not eye-popping IMO and his defense is still pretty damn suspect IMO, with his fouls per game actually going up in fewer minutes.

 

[nash2stouds]

They'll need it all. With the way the Spurs try to defense the Suns, the Suns need Amare to play like he did in the 2004-05 WCF.

To be honest, he may have been better this playoff run than the last time they played the Spurs. The problem was that he couldn't stay out of foul trouble. He averaged 26.4 points and 10.6 rebounds in only 33.2 minutes. Compare that to the 41.4 minutes 37 points he averaged in the series two years ago and you have a pretty equal comparison.

 

[Cheesebeef]

To be honest, he may have been better this playoff run than the last time they played the Spurs. The problem was that he couldn't stay out of foul trouble. He averaged 26.4 points and 10.6 rebounds in only 33.2 minutes. Compare that to the 41.4 minutes 37 points he averaged in the series two years ago and you have a pretty equal comparison.

uh, the fact that he kept getting in foul trouble and putting himself on the bench is part of his overall play in the series. His inability to stay on the floor during quarters or ENTIRE games hurt the team. And I'm not sure where you're getting 10.6 boards against the Spurs - he only broke double digits once and averaged 7 per game versus 9 the last time. I can't see any way in which he played better this series than in a series in which he literally was unstoppable and the only player besides Nash who actually showed up.

 

[nash2stouds]

uh, the fact that he kept getting in foul trouble and putting himself on the bench is part of his overall play in the series. His inability to stay on the floor during quarters or ENTIRE games hurt the team. And I'm not sure where you're getting 10.6 boards against the Spurs - he only broke double digits once and averaged 7 per game versus 9 the last time. I can't see any way in which he played better this series than in a series in which he literally was unstoppable and the only player besides Nash who actually showed up.

Um, that is debatable but what is not is his rebounding stats:


A. Stoudemire 26.4 PPG T. Duncan 26.8
A. Stoudemire 10.6 RPG T. Duncan 13.7
S. Nash 12.7 APG T. Parker 5.7
J. Jones 0.615 FG% F. Oberto 0.727
K. Thomas 0.923 FT% R. Horry 1.000
A. Stoudemire 1.000 3P% R. Horry 0.500

Amare averaged 10.6 rebounds in the series. In fact, he averaged 12.10 for the playoffs. He upped his points per game by 6 whole points and boosted his rebounds by 3 while playing 1.4 minutes per game more than during the regular season.

 

[nash2stouds]

Anyone that looks up game 5 stats on espn.com, it is pretty funny because their is an asterisk mark.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Um, that is debatable but what is not is his rebounding stats:


A. Stoudemire 26.4 PPG T. Duncan 26.8
A. Stoudemire 10.6 RPG T. Duncan 13.7
S. Nash 12.7 APG T. Parker 5.7
J. Jones 0.615 FG% F. Oberto 0.727
K. Thomas 0.923 FT% R. Horry 1.000
A. Stoudemire 1.000 3P% R. Horry 0.500

Amare averaged 10.6 rebounds in the series. In fact, he averaged 12.10 for the playoffs. He upped his points per game by 6 whole points and boosted his rebounds by 3 while playing 1.4 minutes per game more than during the regular season.

d'oh! i was missing the 18 board game 1 performance. my bad.

 

[D-Dogg]

Old Amare was the most ferocious, most amazing player in the league, IMO. Was devastating. The most dominating player not named Shaq in the NBA.

New Amare is more complete of a player...he hits his FTs..he has developed a J and is more patient (and still room to grow).

And I didn't even watch the clips. I hate that you guys have two players I really, really love now in Amare and Grant Hill, and one that I dislike a ton but admire the hell out of and respect his game in Nash...the closest to Magic in the game right now.

That's three guys on your team I kind of root for...what is this world coming to????

 

[azirish]

Old Amare was the most ferocious, most amazing player in the league, IMO. Was devastating. The most dominating player not named Shaq in the NBA.

New Amare is more complete of a player...he hits his FTs..he has developed a J and is more patient (and still room to grow).

And I didn't even watch the clips. I hate that you guys have two players I really, really love now in Amare and Grant Hill, and one that I dislike a ton but admire the hell out of and respect his game in Nash...the closest to Magic in the game right now.

That's three guys on your team I kind of root for...what is this world coming to????

We really feel sorry for you.