Amare: Old or New?

[SO91]

Who's we?

 

[D-Dogg]

Who's we?

The Good Guys.

 

[dodie53]

i like the old amare..

 

[Rab]

Cheesebeef's point is that Stoudemire is motivated enough that he would have learned those things even had he not gotten injured, and I agree. I really don't think there's any way you can argue that crippling a professional athlete in his early 20s works to his advantage. Otherwise, you'd see guys signing up for discretionary microfracture in the hope it would improve their games.

While I agree with you, I think you missed my point, or maybe I should've further explained my point. I am in no way saying that Amare was never going to be a more complete player. I am saying however, that this injury forced him to learn more at an earlier age in order to still be an effective player in this league coming back from surgery. The offseason leading up to the injury and surgery, Amare was talking about becoming a "Point Center", which I always found laughable. He mentioned how he was working on his 3 point shot, and his ball handling skills, which again, I found laughable. Ball handling, sure, work on that, but don't be out on the perimeter handling the ball. That was hardly the improvement I wanted to see coming from him.

He had to adjust his game when he came back. He could not rely soley on athletic ability to overcome other weaknesses. He was a little more fundamental, I don't think he forced as much, and as the season went on, he kept getting better. Great players can adjust when something is taken away from them. MJ developed a killer fadeaway when he started to lose some athletic ability, and was still as dominate.

Now, if Amare can come close to gaining some of the old Amare freakishness, he will be that much more dangerous. It would be like the development process working in reverse. He can combine what he learned when he couldn't be old Amare, and become a terror again.

BTW, I voted for old Amare just so you know.

 

[Bufalay]

These videos are fun, but not terribly helpful in considering the whole season. I thought Amare was beginning to look close to being all the way back by the playoffs, but it's hard to tell.

The big plus is that he is less likely to try to dunk on really tall guys like Yao anymore. He'd get into these personal battles that distracted from playing the game.

he doesn't try to do it anymore because he can't, which is unfortunate. This is the reason why Turiaf and Duncan blocked so many of his shots this season

 

[abomb]

New Amare's jumper makes baby Jesus smile.

 

[slinslin]

The new one, the only problem is that imo Raja Bell and Shawn Marion have too big egos to feed Amare. I have no doubt he could have averaged 30/10 last season or this season if they would simply get him the touches he should get.

 

[azirish]

The new one, the only problem is that imo Raja Bell and Shawn Marion have too big egos to feed Amare. I have no doubt he could have averaged 30/10 last season or this season if they would simply get him the touches he should get.

I think Hill will more than make up for the fact that neither Bell nor Marion are distributors.

Everything we keep hearing is that the Suns system is built around getting rid of the ball quickly which for Bell means either shooting or moving it around the horn. I don't think he is told to look for Amare.

I think the issue with Marion is whether he's at PF or SF. At PF he should be matched with someone who is much slower than he is, so he can make a move on him if the guy is not leaving him wide open (it would be nice if he hit more of those corner shots, but they are part of the offense). In any case, the best use of Marion is as a cutter.

It is at SF where I think Marion's lack of passing is most notable. He's not suited to making his own shot (his best play is that weird slow motion move to the left with a mid range floater) against the typically athletic SF and tends to take contested threes rather than passing out.

Hill's ability to use jab steps and shakes to get by his man and then finish at the basket will force weak side help to come over. This will leave either Amare or Shawn open to cut to the basket for a dump off pass.

 

[DeAnna]

Cheesebeef's point is that Stoudemire is motivated enough that he would have learned those things even had he not gotten injured, and I agree.

Disagree. Only because he had to sit on the bench for a year and observe.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Disagree. Only because he had to sit on the bench for a year and observe.

i just don't get this - did people not see his game grow exponentially through each of his first three seasons? Why do people think that wouldn't have continued to happen? The guy's drive is unparalleled to almost any NBA player I can think of since Kobe Bryant, not only being the first high schooler to win the Rookie of the Year award, but then he boosted his game to 20 ppg the next, then boosted it to 26 ppg and 2nd team ALL-NBA the following year and then he coming back from horrific surgery to be First Team All-NBA. That's not the hallmarks of a kid who needed to observe anything IMO.

 

[Rab]

i just don't get this - did people not see his game grow exponentially through each of his first three seasons? Why do people think that wouldn't have continued to happen? The guy's drive is unparalleled to almost any NBA player I can think of since Kobe Bryant, not only being the first high schooler to win the Rookie of the Year award, but then he boosted his game to 20 ppg the next, then boosted it to 26 ppg and 2nd team ALL-NBA the following year and then he coming back from horrific surgery to be First Team All-NBA. That's not the hallmarks of a kid who needed to observe anything IMO.

Amare has also repeatedly said that even though the injury was frustrating and it set him back, the positive he took from the injury was being able to become a "student of the game", and observe. Doesn't mean that he wouldn't have picked up on things if not for the injury, but it was good for him. Amare hadn't even tapped into his potential, and was still very raw. I'm sure he picked up on a lot just sitting and watching.

 

[azirish]

The problem is that the stuff Amare really needs to learn can only be done through practice such as defensive footwork, boxing out, rotations, and anticipation on rebounding.

 

[Rab]

The problem is that the stuff Amare really needs to learn can only be done through practice such as defensive footwork, boxing out, rotations, and anticipation on rebounding.

I actually thought that he did these things better this year, than the before the injury, which is why I think you can make a case that he was better this year, but sometimes it seemed the more his offensive game came back, the less he focused on his defense. I thought he was solid on defense the first half of the year. Steve Nash continually mentioned that in interviews. He still has a long way to improve in these areas though.

 

[azirish]

I actually thought that he did these things better this year, than the before the injury, which is why I think you can make a case that he was better this year, but sometimes it seemed the more his offensive game came back, the less he focused on his defense. I thought he was solid on defense the first half of the year. Steve Nash continually mentioned that in interviews. He still has a long way to improve in these areas though.

Unfortunately, the first half the season was heavily weighted with Eastern Conference teams so his improvement may have been more apparent than real.

As I've said elsewhere, I love the fact that Amare is on the national team. The only way he can get better is to play against top players. Practicing against Burke and Marks is not going to help much to learn to play low post defense against Duncan.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Amare has also repeatedly said that even though the injury was frustrating and it set him back, the positive he took from the injury was being able to become a "student of the game", and observe. Doesn't mean that he wouldn't have picked up on things if not for the injury, but it was good for him.

sorry, I don't care what Amare has said trying to make himself feel better about his game, no injury of the sort that Amare went through is "good" for anyone IMO. Transcendant players don't need to miss an entire season in order for them to watch and see what's happening on the court to make them better.

And if he learned so much as a student of the game, how come he still can't pass worth a damn, still plays pretty mediocre defense and still picks up more fouls per minute than he did pre-injury.

 

[Rab]

sorry, I don't care what Amare has said trying to make himself feel better about his game, no injury of the sort that Amare went through is "good" for anyone IMO. Transcendant players don't need to miss an entire season in order for them to watch and see what's happening on the court to make them better.

And if he learned so much as a student of the game, how come he still can't pass worth a damn, still plays pretty mediocre defense and still picks up more fouls per minute than he did pre-injury.

What else can you do when you're not playing though? My point isn't that every player needs to get hurt in order for them to be better for hell's sake. It doesn't mean he didn't pick up on anything while he was sitting there though.

I don't think Amare will ever be a good passer, no matter how much he works on it, and I don't think he'll be relied on to be a really good passer in his career. I thought his defense was better this year as I stated earlier, but he has a long ways to go there.

 

[azirish]

I don't see Amare becoming a Diaw type passer (nor do I think Diaw will every be able finish like Amare), but Amare has shown signs that he CAN make excellant passes. In any case, he needs to learn to recognize double teams and what to do when they are coming.

 

[asudevil83]

i cant prefer one over the other based on skill. its just too hard.

but i will say that i felt more secure in the old Amare. not having that fear of one day hearing that he needs another surgery of some sort was great. and that cannot be said anymore.

 

[elindholm]

While I agree with you, I think you missed my point, or maybe I should've further explained my point.

I understood your point fine, but I still disagree with it.

The offseason leading up to the injury and surgery, Amare was talking about becoming a "Point Center", which I always found laughable.

Me too. I read it from the beginning as a nonsense phrase created by D'Antoni in order to sell Stoudemire on small ball.

He had to adjust his game when he came back. He could not rely soley on athletic ability to overcome other weaknesses. He was a little more fundamental...

This is all addressed by cheesebeef's point. Stoudemire would have made those improvements anyway.

Seriously, this poll result is outrageous homerism. There's no one in the league outside of Suns fans who thinks that Stoudemire is better now than before he got hurt.

 

[Treesquid PhD]

Give me the points, some of yallz are ass backwards wanting amare to be the defense of the team and marcus banks the offense.

 

[CARDCORE FAN]

Old

He just did stuff no one else could do. IMHO

 

[BC867]

I'm voting for "now" because this is now. If his ability to develop his game was added to his pre-surgery explosiveness, it would've been monumental.

But that's not what was. I'll take his reduced explosiveness and expanded game.

But I'd like it all with a Center on the team who gets starter's minutes to take defensive (and foul) pressure off Amare.

 

[frdbtr]

I didn't vote but I just had a comment. I think that we are going to end up seeing the best of both worlds. Amare may never completely get back the freakish athletic ability that he once had but he never got back to 100% last year. Every player that has had microfracture surgury took 2 years to recover. That means that this coming season we will see Amare as close to what he was before the surgury then we have seen thus far. Next year, he will be unstoppable.