. . . and the Ugly.

[Westgate Danimal]

This entire thread walks, talks and smells like a veiled attempt to bash Rod Graves still again (this time for not drafting Peterson).

The one "awful play" Ouchie refers to was Levi's first appearance in 3 - 4 weeks and his first play at the left tackle position ever as a pro (you know - the position considered by many to be the most important and challenging on the O-line).

Glenn Parker's telestrator analysis of that play was that it appeared that Levi thought the play involved a 3-step drop entailing a short "pop and release" by the offensive lineman. Instead the drop was more like 5-steps (and, since Warner held on a second or so longer) more like a 7-stepper.

Parker (a former Buffalo O-lineman by the way) conceded that perception would be that Levi quit on the play whereas Glenn felt it was due to a mental error made by a rookie against a very good edge rusher.

Regarding Peterson - there was no issue with his ability. The risk in drafting him was that he was injury prone (This could still jump up at any time and bite the Vikings in the butt). A value judgment was made - (1) ignore a pressing need at tackle and draft an injury-prone superstar instead or (2) fill the need with a less spectacular but safer pick. (Normally, I personally would have opted to draft the superstar (i.e. "best available player"), but the durability issue would have made me think long and hard.

Another factor which Ouchie conveniently ignores was the presence on our roster of Edgerrin James (who underperformed behind a subpar O-line last year and for which Graves and Green took considerable heat). Last time I looked, Edge ranks 3rd in the NFL in yards gained with 600+ yards.

Well thought out post!

 

[Cheesebeef]

This entire thread walks, talks and smells like a veiled attempt to bash Rod Graves still again (this time for not drafting Peterson).

funny, I thought this sentence...

"and it (this thread) is dedicated to d-dogg."

pretty much sums up why the thread was made. The two went back and forth on the pick last week and after seeing Brown play for the first time in weeks, Ouchie decided to apply the points he made in that discussion to what he saw.

Personally, I told him he was being a jackass directing an entire thread at D-Dog, even if it was tongue in cheek before he posted it, but to imply the entire thread was about bashing Rod Graves just means you're stuck in the past and holding a grudge. Somethings just are as they appear to be... you'd think when you just come out and declare a thread is dedicated to someone, people would believe you, but I guess old habits (believing the worst of darksiders) die hard.

 

[D-Dogg]

Personally, I told him he was being a jackass directing an entire thread at D-Dog, even if it was tongue in cheek before he posted it,

Ah, I thought it was funny. But then again, I'm a big fan of jackassery.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Ah, I thought it was funny. But then again, I'm a big fan of jackassery.

that's because you, have a sense of humor. I didn't think it would offend you - I thought he'd take heat which he did... and for the wrong reason... which he did. Sometimes it's mind-boggling to me how people can miss the point of a post, even the point is literally spelled out for them.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

This entire thread walks, talks and smells like a veiled attempt to bash Rod Graves still again (this time for not drafting Peterson).

The one "awful play" Ouchie refers to was Levi's first appearance in 3 - 4 weeks and his first play at the left tackle position ever as a pro (you know - the position considered by many to be the most important and challenging on the O-line).

Glenn Parker's telestrator analysis of that play was that it appeared that Levi thought the play involved a 3-step drop entailing a short "pop and release" by the offensive lineman. Instead the drop was more like 5-steps (and, since Warner held on a second or so longer) more like a 7-stepper.

Parker (a former Buffalo O-lineman by the way) conceded that perception would be that Levi quit on the play whereas Glenn felt it was due to a mental error made by a rookie against a very good edge rusher.

Regarding Peterson - there was no issue with his ability. The risk in drafting him was that he was injury prone (This could still jump up at any time and bite the Vikings in the butt). A value judgment was made - (1) ignore a pressing need at tackle and draft an injury-prone superstar instead or (2) fill the need with a less spectacular but safer pick. (Normally, I personally would have opted to draft the superstar (i.e. "best available player"), but the durability issue would have made me think long and hard.

Another factor which Ouchie conveniently ignores was the presence on our roster of Edgerrin James (who underperformed behind a subpar O-line last year and for which Graves and Green took considerable heat). Last time I looked, Edge ranks 3rd in the NFL in yards gained with 600+ yards.

nope, no veiled anything. i'm pretty sure everyone here knows my thinking on levi over peterson. but that really wasn't my point in originally drafting this thread. it was really to discuss the play and needle d-dogg a bit.

also, can we please STOP MAKING EXCUSES for our players when they screw up? do i care if the play was a disaster b/c he quit, forgot the play, didn't know his playbook, or is a rookie (which is a LAME excuse)? nope. i just care he screwed up and it was a play that by itself cost us the game (and yes, there were individual other plays that in and of themselves cost us the game as well, but you can't deny that if we eliminated one of them, including this one, there is a MUCH greater likelihood we win). that's all that i care about.

finally - drafting for need is what makes perennial losers. you made my argument for me.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ah, I thought it was funny. But then again, I'm a big fan of jackassery.

and it was meant in jest. glad you got that.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

that's because you, have a sense of humor. I didn't think it would offend you - I thought he'd take heat which he did... and for the wrong reason... which he did. Sometimes it's mind-boggling to me how people can miss the point of a post, even the point is literally spelled out for them.

maybe i should just take it as free license to start bashing graves??? i mean, "give the people what they want" and all . . .

 

[D-Dogg]

or is a rookie (which is a LAME excuse)? .

I don't think the rookie excuse is a lame one...this game is haaaard, man. These guys come from college, which is SOOOO damn different. Where guys like Levi (very talented) can ef up a play and STILL make it look good because the talent is inferior. In the NFL, you ef up you get bitched. Bad Bad got bitched on that play and got the QB drilled to a point where OF COURSE Kurt would cough it up and many QBs without the drop-the-ball history would also fumble. Yeah, that play was one of about 4 or 7 that led to the loss that they'd all want back. Still doesn't say much about heart and "intensity."

 

[D-Dogg]

and it was meant in jest. glad you got that.

Of course...you were VERY clear on that. Crystal clear. Dunno how it could be taken any differently since you put it in the initial post, twice even! And yeah, I've got a great sense of humor. I'd absolutely LOVE to go to a Suns/Lakers game with you guys at Staples...it would be a riot. We'd be yelling at each other as much as the action on the court...but all in fun.

 

[JeffGollin]

I don't think the rookie excuse is a lame one...this game is haaaard, man. These guys come from college, which is SOOOO damn different....)

True. Levi missed the block and the outcome was that Kurt lost the ball. "It is what it is."

But Levi also "is what he is" - a young, very promising kickass offensive tackle with a couple of games of pro experience, coming off an injury and being asked to be our starting LT (at least til Gandy gets back).

So what do should we do - shoot him?

Or would it make more sense to (a) tell it the way it is and then (b) do whatever it takes to make Levi the best offensive tackle he can be in a short a time period as possible?

Of course, we could dwell on why we should have drafted Peterson. That's gonna help a lot.

Cheesie, I happen to agree with you about "not drafting for need", but I didn't make your case, and here's why:

If Peterson didn't have an injury history, he'd be clearly a "better available player" than Levi. But the durability issue added an element of risk that, in some peoples' view, brought Peterson down to Levi's level as best available athlete.

Based on what I've seen since then, I think both players (if they can stay healthy) will turn out to be perennial Pro Bowl candidates. I think Levi will turn out to be better than many of us expected. (For example, it may have been just perception and not reality, but it sure seemed to me that after Levi replaced Gandy in the 4Q, Edge started to gain an extra couple of yards on every running play).

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Of course...you were VERY clear on that. Crystal clear. Dunno how it could be taken any differently since you put it in the initial post, twice even! And yeah, I've got a great sense of humor. I'd absolutely LOVE to go to a Suns/Lakers game with you guys at Staples...it would be a riot. We'd be yelling at each other as much as the action on the court...but all in fun.

oh man, a lakers/suns game at staples with you and abomb would be something . . . wow. i don't think you have any idea.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

True. Levi missed the block and the outcome was that Kurt lost the ball. "It is what it is."

But Levi also "is what he is" - a young, very promising kickass offensive tackle with a couple of games of pro experience, coming off an injury and being asked to be our starting LT (at least til Gandy gets back).

So what do should we do - shoot him?

Or would it make more sense to (a) tell it the way it is and then (b) do whatever it takes to make Levi the best offensive tackle he can be in a short a time period as possible?

Of course, we could dwell on why we should have drafted Peterson. That's gonna help a lot.

Cheesie, I happen to agree with you about "not drafting for need", but I didn't make your case, and here's why:

If Peterson didn't have an injury history, he'd be clearly a "better available player" than Levi. But the durability issue added an element of risk that, in some peoples' view, brought Peterson down to Levi's level as best available athlete.

Based on what I've seen since then, I think both players (if they can stay healthy) will turn out to be perennial Pro Bowl candidates. I think Levi will turn out to be better than many of us expected. (For example, it may have been just perception and not reality, but it sure seemed to me that after Levi replaced Gandy in the 4Q, Edge started to gain an extra couple of yards on every running play).

i think you're making an assumption about my opinion of levi. i don't think he stinks. i do think he has potential. as much as peterson? no. therein lies my point in that particular debate. my point of this whole thread was that d-dogg said that he's seen nothing but heart and intensity outta levi. i had commented that how accurate was a 2 1/2 game sample size of that? then he whiffed on a very important block . . . and i call it out as a first sign of a lack of intensity (either forgot the play, didn't know the play, or quit on the play . . . any of which shows a lack of intensity on that play).

never have i said levi is a bad player. and no, i do not think we should shoot him.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Atleast he is better than Rackers. ( )

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Atleast he is better than Rackers. ( )

lol. maybe he should kick for us.

i think you should post that particular line in every thread.

 

[D-Dogg]

oh man, a lakers/suns game at staples with you and abomb would be something . . . wow. i don't think you have any idea.

We'll have to do it one day. I'm serious. Then go kill the town if we can still stand each other.

 

[cardsfanmd]

lol. maybe he should kick for us.

i think you should post that particular line in every thread.

I would, but I dont wanna piss of my Dad. He has made that his goal this week. Thus far he is doing a piss poor job though.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Heres how its gotta be:

 

[cardsfanmd]

dear little mr smartypants and assoc.,


Rackers Sucks

 

[Duckjake]

dear little mr smartypants and assoc.,


Rackers Sucks