elindholm said:
Hey Lars, good discussion.
Agreed, but with every post we make, Skorp loses half his bandwidth.
Brown would rather lose a job, lose a player, lose a game than go against what he knows to be the right thing for a team and for the sport.
You're probably right, but that makes him a poor choice for this gig. I think you'd agree that the problems of USA basketball run much deeper than this group of twelve players. I guess part of your motivation is to make an example out of them. If doing so leads to constructive wholesale changes, then the ends might justify the means, but I think the implications of this Olympic team's (anticipated) failings won't be nearly as far-reaching as we might hope.
It may not do what we hope, that is, to wake up the powers that be and start putting the game back into basketball. Larry is coaching the only way he knows how. He's not the ZenBoy. He's not someone who spends enormous amounts of time stroking guys. He's telling what he thinks they need to do and if they respond, they will be more successful than if they don't.
Our disagreement comes from the fact that you feel if Larry was nice, the players would somehow play better, and I can't see how.
Really? That seems obvious to me. Why the hell can't anyone on team USA (except Iverson, who is used to Brown) hit a three-point shot? Sure, they're all flawed shooters, but they aren't that flawed. Subtract Iverson and the team is something like 10% from behind the arc. That's just absurd.
Iverson can't be shooting over about 20% so being used to Brown can't really be an answer. Everyone has had a bad streak, but none of these guys can shoot a lick.
The most likely explanation is that Brown has them all psyched out. They know he's going to rip into them for every miss, every time they don't work the ball inside first (regardless of how impractical that is against the collapsed defense), every time they do something "selfish" like attempt an open 20-footer.
You said yourself that they need to be able to catch-and-shoot instead of trying to drive everything. Well, I watched the second half of the Lithuania game, and there was a fair amount of catching-and-shooting, but still no one other than Jefferson and Iverson could make anything.
Confidence plays an enormous role in shooting; surely you'd agree with that. These players are all terrified to shoot, and Brown has to bear a lot of responsibility for that.
Look, the players didn't start the tourney afraid of a 20 footer, and Brown only has jumped on Anthony when he's come down and cast one up without being in any kind of a flow. No one was in an offensive rebounding position. No one was in a defensive rotation to guard against the break. Shooting isn't why he got grief, shooting without the team ready was.
The guys came out the first few games just like they did in the pre-Oly games. They pumped and drove. That works if your closely guarded and the other team isn't playing a packed in zone. Unfortunately, they were faking no one and driving into the teeth of the D. They didn't take what was given to them. They weren't playing smart basketball. Larry was seen shaking his head for that reason, not because guys were taking 20 footers.
We are so afraid of alienating, or hurting someone's feelings, or holding someone accountable for their actions
Just so we're clear, I completely agree with you here. There is way too much coddling all throughout our society, especially in the education system. But the "substitute" teacher can't be the one to solve the problem. It's like if you encounter a random eight-year-old with terrible manners and decide that, by gum, you're going to be the one to set him straight. It won't work. It has to be the kid's parents.
These guys aren't 8. They've had numerous coaches, assistant coaches, and trainers throughtout their careers. They know perfectly well how the whole coach/player thing is done.
How about if he says, 'Guys I'm the coach. Some think I'm pretty good, some don't. I want you to be the best players you can be, and I want you to represent your country as well as you can. This is what we're going to do......' Of course some of you might find that to be too demanding on those tender feelings.
There's no need to be sarcastic. I think saying something like that would be great, but Brown undermines the entire process when he then goes to the media and whines, "No one is listening to me, and that's why we're losing." Don't you think the players are justified in feeling betrayed by that?
I think he answered the questions in an honest way. He didn't whine. He said it like it is. Look at the way our opponents play, practice, handle themselves in this venue, and deal with being on a team. That's why we are struggling. Nothing more, or less.
Hubie got rid of a couple of guys that weren't buying.
And he did it in such a way that it didn't embarrass the players who were buying in. If you're one of the players trying to do the right thing and get in line behind the coach, and then the coach goes off about how "some people" aren't following his lead, that's really alienating, because the entire team is guilty by association.
I've heard positives about the guys that are truly buying into the games. James and Duncan are always getting singled out in the press for their effort. The rest aren't, but with the exception of Anthony, non are really getting abused in the press either. This team is generally getting what it deserves based on what others say, more than what Brown is saying. ,
Let's take Stoudemire for instance. Is Brown happy with Stoudemire or not? No one here knows. Stoudemire rarely plays, but we can say that that's because he's stuck behind Duncan in the rotation. We know he was punished for being late to a practice. Is Stoudemire on Brown's s-list or not? It's not a big deal that we don't know, but I guarantee you that Stoudemire doesn't know either.
And that's awful. There can't be any learning without genuine feedback. Stoudemire doesn't know whether he's doing the right things or not, because whatever Brown says in private, he then nullifies it by denigrating "some of these young guys who have never had any coaching."
I guarantee you Amare knows exactly where he stands with Brown. Brown's comments about the lack of coaching were so incredibly accurate, I'm shocked you have an issue with it. They don't get good coaching, and depending on the team they play on, they may never.
Your way too new school for me.
Ten years of teaching experience will do that, but I'm still a lot more hard-nosed than most.
Forget what you learned in college and remember what you learned growing up. If we all did that, we'd be better for it.
I don't care if you have to dump an entire group of people to send the right message.
But that's not his job. He's not running a basketball prep camp or a serious college program or even (for these purposes) an NBA team. This is one little eight-game tournament. Hell, in terms of time on the court, it's hardly any longer than the NCAA championship playoffs! Imagine if a new coach took over a team at the beginning of the NCAA tournament and said, "Okay, none of you guys know crap from crapola, it's time for me to fix it all before you get embarrassed." How well do you think that would work?
Hubie Brown did that very thing at the beginning of a season and it worked in short order. Brown's job is to win a medal
and leave the game of basketball better than the way he found it. I think he did that this year with the Pistons, and I think he's doing that now with this Olympic team. They have only themselves to blame for much of what we've seen so far. Don't you think he told them early on that they needed work on their defensive intensity? Don't you think he told them to work on moving the ball around the court and shooting from the parimeter instead of driving to the basket all the time? Larry and the rest of the world knew exactly what the US couldn't do well, and what they needed to do well in order to medal. It's obvious they didn't do what they needed to to prepare for this tourney.
Brown is swept up in his own delusions of grandeur. He thinks this Olympic engagement is about the future of American basketball, a pivotal moment in history, a chance to chart a decisive new path for the future, forever after. It isn't. It's one eight-game tournament with a bunch of random guys who aren't very experienced. Yes, it would be nice if they learned something about their games and themselves while they're doing it. But it's not that likely.
So your answer is to coddle, let them do what they want, and just sit back and let what ever happens, happen? I would rather he take a stand and at least try to lay the ground works for some changes.
If players don't see his knowledge as beneficial, Larry just lets them go on their merry way. He isn't demanding respect, or telling the world he's a genius. He's just a coach that is willing to teach if your willing to learn.
Sorry, but that's just not true. He isn't letting the bad apples go on their merry way -- he's continuing to harp on them to the media, dragging down the entire team in the process. And if you don't think he's telling the world that he's a genius, well, hmm, all I can say is that I don't think you're listening very closely.
Does he say, 'Melo stinks and I'm not going to play him', or 'Amare is a hacking machine and could hit the open man to save his life so he's on the pine with me'? No he doesn't. He states broad, obvious facts to the media when pressed. He's telling his players that this isn't going to get it done, and he's letting me and all the other American fans know he's not just mailing it in.
If he were just a "willing" coach, he'd be singing a much different song. He'd say,
"I'm having a great time working with these players. This is a tough competition and there are ways in which we aren't playing our best. It's difficult to take twelve stars and get them all to assume different roles on the same team. But they are great athletes and they love the game, and I'm trying to help them with some of what I know.
"I think no matter what happens in this tournament, we're going to feel that there is a lot of unfinished business, a lot of ways in which we could have been better prepared. But they came here for the same reason I did: to represent our country and to try to win a gold medal.
"We're going to keep getting better, keep working on our weaknesses, keep growing accustomed to one another. No matter what happens, I want them to leave this experience with a different perspective on what team basketball is and how it can be played. For me, that would be the greatest reward."
That would have been the biggest line of BS, and I for one am glad he took a more direct and honest approach.
But no. Instead he comes to the press conference with his hang-dog look and pathetically mumbles into his chest about how he isn't reaching people and they aren't listening and the process is flawed and everything sucks. That's not a willing teacher. That's a coach whose players have tuned him out and who is deserting the ship before it completely goes under.
Your looking at a coach that is extremely frustrated by a lack of commitment. If your committed to a team and the concept of winning, you will make the sacrifices necessary to be successful. Larry has made every effort to do what it takes. The players are the one's that haven't held up their part and they need to be called out on it, by Larry, the Media, the NBA, you and I. We deserve better and I'm glad Larry thinks so too.
