Another mvp-like game for Nash 4-29

[TheFallen49]

Dirk has not been the best player on the best team in the playoffs. However, it's a regular season award. If not for the record the Mavs had, Dirk would not have had a chance at the MVP IMO. Oh and by the way what is your definition of far and away? 6 games better then the Suns? 9 better then the Spurs? Hardly far and away the best team.

Just personally I think thats a pretty big gap between the first, second, and third best teams in the league, especially since the Mavs and Suns were so close for the majority of the schedule.

I'm just saying it's pretty obvious what Nash does for his team because his offensive contribution is crystal clear, Dirk still allows the Mavs to be better in his own ways by being so efficient and allowing more opportunities for his teammates. Thats why you have the casual NBA fan rooting for Nash, they don't fully understand the concept of a team player. It's not just a point guard dishing out assists, its your all star passing up a shot no one would be mad at him for taking for an even better shot while they command a double team.

 

[msdundee]

Just personally I think thats a pretty big gap between the first, second, and third best teams in the league, especially since the Mavs and Suns were so close for the majority of the schedule.

I'm just saying it's pretty obvious what Nash does for his team because his offensive contribution is crystal clear, Dirk still allows the Mavs to be better in his own ways by being so efficient and allowing more opportunities for his teammates. Thats why you have the casual NBA fan rooting for Nash, they don't fully understand the concept of a team player. It's not just a point guard dishing out assists, its your all star passing up a shot no one would be mad at him for taking for an even better shot while they command a double team.

Do you have any idea how goofy that sounds?

Although Nash's offensive contribution includes 2-3 different categories, the main focus IS crystal clear: he allows the Suns "to be better in his own ways by being so efficient and allowing more opportunities for his teammates." He "understands the concept of a team player" better than just about anyone in the league. He isn't the only Suns all star adept at "passing up shots no one would be mad at him for taking for an even better shot while they command a double team," but he does it best.

Apparently you're at a much loftier level, but all of us lowly "casual NBA fans" have a lot of company with professionals around the league and in the media rooting for Nash right along with us. They must not "fully understand the concept of a team player" either.

 

[cardsunsfan]

Just personally I think thats a pretty big gap between the first, second, and third best teams in the league, especially since the Mavs and Suns were so close for the majority of the schedule.

I'm just saying it's pretty obvious what Nash does for his team because his offensive contribution is crystal clear, Dirk still allows the Mavs to be better in his own ways by being so efficient and allowing more opportunities for his teammates. Thats why you have the casual NBA fan rooting for Nash, they don't fully understand the concept of a team player. It's not just a point guard dishing out assists, its your all star passing up a shot no one would be mad at him for taking for an even better shot while they command a double team.

What BS

 

[Linderbee]

What BS

I actually got a chuckle out of it.

 

[cardsunsfan]

Just personally I think thats a pretty big gap between the first, second, and third best teams in the league, especially since the Mavs and Suns were so close for the majority of the schedule.

I'm just saying it's pretty obvious what Nash does for his team because his offensive contribution is crystal clear, Dirk still allows the Mavs to be better in his own ways by being so efficient and allowing more opportunities for his teammates. Thats why you have the casual NBA fan rooting for Nash, they don't fully understand the concept of a team player. It's not just a point guard dishing out assists, its your all star passing up a shot no one would be mad at him for taking for an even better shot while they command a double team.

If Nash was still on the Mavericks who do you think their team leader would be? Dirk? His own teammates don't look for him at the end of the games. He wines at his own players. He makes stupid comments after and before games like all the pressure is on us. If we lose this game we lose the series. Dirk can't take pressure plain and simple, and he is not a leader. He knows that the regular season doesn't mean much, that's why he excels at it so well.

 

[Chaplin]

Just personally I think thats a pretty big gap between the first, second, and third best teams in the league, especially since the Mavs and Suns were so close for the majority of the schedule.

I'm just saying it's pretty obvious what Nash does for his team because his offensive contribution is crystal clear, Dirk still allows the Mavs to be better in his own ways by being so efficient and allowing more opportunities for his teammates. Thats why you have the casual NBA fan rooting for Nash, they don't fully understand the concept of a team player. It's not just a point guard dishing out assists, its your all star passing up a shot no one would be mad at him for taking for an even better shot while they command a double team.

Is this homerism? Or do you actually believe that?

Dirk allows more opportunities for his teammates? Really? As opposed to what--the #1 assist man in the NBA? I can't even fathom what would make even a Mav homer post this and not think that he is looney tunes.

 

[msdundee]

What BS

That's what I should have said. Right to the point

 

[jenna2891]

c'mon now, guys. we're being kinda hard on thefallen49. he does have a point about dirk being a team player.

dirk's the one who thought up every friday being rice krispie treat day. he never misses anyone's birthday and always brings in the "birthday boy" crown for the person to wear. one time he came to practice with all his clothes on backwards and pretended he didn't know anything was wrong (the team got such a laugh out of that!). whenever a player is feeling down about losing a game or something, dirk is always there to cheer them up with a goofy mask or a silly joke.

you just can't measure that kind of quality or how important it is to have in a teammate.

 

[Mulli]

c'mon now, guys. we're being kinda hard on thefallen49. he does have a point about dirk being a team player.

dirk's the one who thought up every friday being rice krispie treat day. he never misses anyone's birthday and always brings in the "birthday boy" crown for the person to wear. one time he came to practice with all his clothes on backwards and pretended he didn't know anything was wrong (the team got such a laugh out of that!). whenever a player is feeling down about losing a game or something, dirk is always there to cheer them up with a goofy mask or a silly joke.

you just can't measure that kind of quality or how important it is to have in a teammate.

Exactly. And don't forget he is "efficient."

 

[jenna2891]

Exactly. And don't forget he is "efficient."

that's right. while it may take you or i 3 to 4 minutes to put on a uniform, dirk can throw that baby on in 2.

 

[Mulli]

that's right. while it may take you or i 3 to 4 minutes to put on a uniform, dirk can throw that baby on in 2.

And he wears warmups three times before having them washed. He also hangs up them up in between uses.

 

[Linderbee]

I heard he uses the same towel to wipe his face as they use to mop up the floor. You can't find that kind of efficiency & dedication just anywhere, you know.

 

[jenna2891]

And he wears warmups three times before having them washed. He also hangs up them up in between uses.

dirk knows the floor is not a hamper. another reason why he's the mvp.

 

[Mulli]

dirk knows the floor is not a hamper. another reason why he's the mvp.

 

[TheFallen49]

I'm sensing a bit of hostility from Suns fans... maybe its because you know Nash won't win the third MVP and it for some odd reason kills you inside. He's DEFINITELY not the only one who deserves it, I don't know why you people claim i'm the homer when the entire league feels the exact same way.

I think my point was relevant and I don't really see any intelligent rebuttal other than Nash provides more assists (which I actually already stated, although it's clear half of you turned your brains off when you realized I was not supporting Nash as the MVP). So let's recap: Nash provides the assists for his teammates, he's the #1 assist guy... I get it, you get it, let's move on to the next step here. My response is so what? Do you get that basketball is not all about statistics or are you bandwagon fans who simply decided to turn on the NBA now that your team doesn't suck? I find the PER formula an excellent measurement of what should determine the MVP (plus actual team record), if you don't whatever. But you don't have to be so ridicuously rude about the suggestion.

And for the record I NEVER stated Nash wasn't a team player but if you want to continue pretending like I did feel free to do so. I don't know how many of you actually watch Dallas games but the point is not everything can be measured on a stats sheet. Contribution to team success can be analyzed on several levels and many of them work in Dirk's favour (as well as Nash's, not simply "he was the best guy on the best team, derr". I understand that homerism is at it's finest during the playoffs which is a real shame, I was actually starting to find signs of interesting basketball discussion on this board. If you want to reply with an actual response feel free to do so... if not, then why did you read this entire post?

 

[Linderbee]

I'm sensing a bit of hostility from Suns fans... maybe its because you know Nash won't win the third MVP and it for some odd reason kills you inside. He's DEFINITELY not the only one who deserves it, I don't know why you people claim i'm the homer when the entire league feels the exact same way.

I think my point was relevant and I don't really see any intelligent rebuttal other than Nash provides more assists (which I actually already stated, although it's clear half of you turned your brains off when you realized I was not supporting Nash as the MVP). So let's recap: Nash provides the assists for his teammates, he's the #1 assist guy... I get it, you get it, let's move on to the next step here. My response is so what? Do you get that basketball is not all about statistics or are you bandwagon fans who simply decided to turn on the NBA now that your team doesn't suck? I find the PER formula an excellent measurement of what should determine the MVP (plus actual team record), if you don't whatever. But you don't have to be so ridicuously rude about the suggestion.

And for the record I NEVER stated Nash wasn't a team player but if you want to continue pretending like I did feel free to do so. I don't know how many of you actually watch Dallas games but the point is not everything can be measured on a stats sheet. Contribution to team success can be analyzed on several levels and many of them work in Dirk's favour (as well as Nash's, not simply "he was the best guy on the best team, derr". I understand that homerism is at it's finest during the playoffs which is a real shame, I was actually starting to find signs of interesting basketball discussion on this board. If you want to reply with an actual response feel free to do so... if not, then why did you read this entire post?

So I could tell you you suck, with complete knowledge of your post!

 

[Chaplin]

I'm sensing a bit of hostility from Suns fans... maybe its because you know Nash won't win the third MVP and it for some odd reason kills you inside. He's DEFINITELY not the only one who deserves it, I don't know why you people claim i'm the homer when the entire league feels the exact same way.

I think my point was relevant and I don't really see any intelligent rebuttal other than Nash provides more assists (which I actually already stated, although it's clear half of you turned your brains off when you realized I was not supporting Nash as the MVP). So let's recap: Nash provides the assists for his teammates, he's the #1 assist guy... I get it, you get it, let's move on to the next step here. My response is so what? Do you get that basketball is not all about statistics or are you bandwagon fans who simply decided to turn on the NBA now that your team doesn't suck? I find the PER formula an excellent measurement of what should determine the MVP (plus actual team record), if you don't whatever. But you don't have to be so ridicuously rude about the suggestion.

And for the record I NEVER stated Nash wasn't a team player but if you want to continue pretending like I did feel free to do so. I don't know how many of you actually watch Dallas games but the point is not everything can be measured on a stats sheet. Contribution to team success can be analyzed on several levels and many of them work in Dirk's favour (as well as Nash's, not simply "he was the best guy on the best team, derr". I understand that homerism is at it's finest during the playoffs which is a real shame, I was actually starting to find signs of interesting basketball discussion on this board. If you want to reply with an actual response feel free to do so... if not, then why did you read this entire post?

You said that Dirk Nowitzki provides more opportunities for his teammates than Steve Nash. That is a load of complete homer bull, and you know it. THAT'S what we're talking about.

 

[TheFallen49]

Did I say more? Well thats my mistake, I should watch the word choice but really what do you expect from a PG in contrast to a PF? It's not Dirks fault he's not a playmaking point guard. And a playmaking point guard is what I mean by how crystal clear Nash's contribution really is to even ana verage NBA fan. I also didn't say Nash wasn't deserving, he's the sole reason I watch the Suns and as everyone else who watches them knows, the catalyst for what makes them successful (high powered offense).

 

[jenna2891]

I think my point was relevant and I don't really see any intelligent rebuttal other than Nash provides more assists (which I actually already stated, although it's clear half of you turned your brains off when you realized I was not supporting Nash as the MVP).

you do realize that assists are the not the same as passes, right? there is no way that dirk gives his teammates better looks/shots WITHOUT giving them assists. assists = passing to someone who makes a shot. how, exactly, can dirk be more beneficial to his team if he passes up shots but DOESN'T get an assist as a result?

steve nash averages 11.6 assists in a game. that is AT LEAST 23 points he contributed to his team's score, not to mention the 18 ppg he added (average) himself. that, it would seem to me, is more valuable than the 20 ppg and the (at the most) 7 he could provide from his 2.5 (average) assists.

also, if you come back with the "dirk is efficient! wah wah wah!" line i'll clock you (figuratively, not literally; just like dirk is figuratively the mvp and literally nash is )

 

[mathbzh]

If I want to build a team to win it all I take Nash, Duncan or Lebron (it would be Lebron because he is just 22). I would never pick Dirk over any of them.
But it will not upset me if he is the MVP. He had a great regular season playing with a great team and last year he had a great playoff run.

 

[mathbzh]

Jenna you are not fair

you do realize that assists are the not the same as passes, right? there is no way that dirk gives his teammates better looks/shots WITHOUT giving them assists. assists = passing to someone who makes a shot. how, exactly, can dirk be more beneficial to his team if he passes up shots but DOESN'T get an assist as a result?

You assume Dirk would shot 100% in these situations were shoting is a legitimate but not obvious choice?

steve nash averages 11.6 assists in a game. that is AT LEAST 23 points he contributed to his team's score, not to mention the 18 ppg he added (average) himself. that, it would seem to me, is more valuable than the 20 ppg and the (at the most) 7 he could provide from his 2.5 (average) assists.

Dirk score 24.6 ppg not 20 and you forgot Nash has more TO and less offensive rebounds (but shoot at higher % ). And the stats don't say everything. SA players always shoot at higher % playing along with Duncan because he free space for his teammates. But you will not find this in TD statistical line. The same goes for Nash except he his often rewarded by some more assists.

also, if you come back with the "dirk is efficient! wah wah wah!" line i'll clock you (figuratively, not literally; just like dirk is figuratively the mvp and literally nash is )

I agree on that one
And... Nash is my MVP

 

[Covert Rain]

Just personally I think thats a pretty big gap between the first, second, and third best teams in the league, especially since the Mavs and Suns were so close for the majority of the schedule.

I'm just saying it's pretty obvious what Nash does for his team because his offensive contribution is crystal clear, Dirk still allows the Mavs to be better in his own ways by being so efficient and allowing more opportunities for his teammates. Thats why you have the casual NBA fan rooting for Nash, they don't fully understand the concept of a team player. It's not just a point guard dishing out assists, its your all star passing up a shot no one would be mad at him for taking for an even better shot while they command a double team.

Your logic is crazy. 6 games is a big gap? On what planet? Dirk makes the team better by his individual contribution not by making the other players better. You do realize how many big men draw double teams? There are many more big men that draw double teams then Dirk in this league. If that was a criteria then Dirk wouldn't be at the top of that category either. Now there is a big difference. Efficiency? LMAO. Weak. There are players in this league that don't play much that have high efficiency ratings. I have never heard such a weak argument in my life. Nash is the definition of a team player not Dirk.

Dirk is going to win for one reason and one reason only. He is the best player on the team with the best record. Traditionally that is how many voters vote. It has always been that way. If the Mavs had finished with the 2nd best record he would have no shot at the MVP.

I don't think people are being hostile as much as laughing our backsides off at how ridiculous your reasoning is. Really if that is the best justification you have for Dirk over Nash then it will be even funnier when the Mavs get bounced.

 

[Chaplin]

Dirk is going to win for one reason and one reason only. He is the best player on the team with the best record. Traditionally that is how many voters vote. It has always been that way. If the Mavs had finished with the 2nd best record he would have no shot at the MVP.

Traditionally, that is correct, except it wasn't the case last year. Nash was the best player, but he wasn't on the best team. And I'm sure San Antonio would argue that the year before was the same.

 

[Covert Rain]

Traditionally, that is correct, except it wasn't the case last year. Nash was the best player, but he wasn't on the best team. And I'm sure San Antonio would argue that the year before was the same.

Good point. Except many of the voters talked about the fact that the Suns were missing Amare and still managed one of the best records in the regular season. The circumstances were a bit different. Had the Mavs been missing a major piece all season and managed what they did, that to me is the same.

 

[TheFallen49]

you do realize that assists are the not the same as passes, right? there is no way that dirk gives his teammates better looks/shots WITHOUT giving them assists. assists = passing to someone who makes a shot. how, exactly, can dirk be more beneficial to his team if he passes up shots but DOESN'T get an assist as a result?

steve nash averages 11.6 assists in a game. that is AT LEAST 23 points he contributed to his team's score, not to mention the 18 ppg he added (average) himself. that, it would seem to me, is more valuable than the 20 ppg and the (at the most) 7 he could provide from his 2.5 (average) assists.

also, if you come back with the "dirk is efficient! wah wah wah!" line i'll clock you (figuratively, not literally; just like dirk is figuratively the mvp and literally nash is )

Dirk may not get those assists, but i'll take him passing up a shot to kick it out to a player who can swing the ball out to another player for an open shot, which if you watch when the Mavericks is exactly what happens when the double team is drawn and a very basic offensive play. That's why assists aren't everything especially like I said when your comparing a point guard to a power forward, it's ridiculous. Haven't you ever heard the phrase "the pass before the pass that leads to the basket is more important"? What it means is that although your center or forward won't get as many assists they are still critical in creating plays that are drawn up in some scenarios (obviously not Phoenix which i'm getting to). Maybe it would help if you look at it in terms of the system each team uses: The Suns are desperately reliant on Nash to create plays, he is the offense. Why does that make him the MVP? It just makes me wonder about whats going to happen when those 33 year old legs and back get tired. He's critical to team success because his team is openly reliant on him... if thats what you think constitutes an MVP then fine.

Avery's system clearly does not rely on one player to run the offense. Does that make Dirk less valuable? To the Mavericks offense in contrast to Nash on the Suns, yeah it does... losing Dirk would hurt but this whole season it was clear Avery was trying to make the Mavericks less dependent on one guy and I think that's smart. But Avery's team philosophy is going to be much more effective in the long run is my point.

Is it anyone's fault that these two teams use different systems, and have different ways of winning? No. That's like saying Nash shouldn't be MVP because he is SO crucial to the Suns success and system but he still couldn't produce a better season record than Avery's system. And as we all know the biggest piece in Avery's system is Dirk. (There, not one mention of efficiency!)