Anthony Barr

[Cbus cardsfan]

I see alot of mocks having him available in the 8-11 range. I don't see how that can happen, but if it does, should the Cards make a move to get him?

Without a doubt, my answer would be yes. I think Barr is the best player in the draft. If he's sitting there at 9-10, it probably would only take next year's #1, along with pick 20, to get him. To me, it's a no-brainer if they could get him for that.

I keep hearing long and fast from Arians and Keim (and my wife ). Barr fits both those criteria. I think he's a better prospect than Von Miller was when he entered the draft.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

I would love to see the Cardinals make a move to get a impact player in the draft.

It is something they have not done in the past. I understand treating draft picks like gold is good practice, but sometimes if the player is there, then a team should go get him.

If the Cardinals could move up to get Barr for their 1st, and 3rd and 4th round pick ? Sure.

 

[kerouac9]

I see alot of mocks having him available in the 8-11 range. I don't see how that can happen, but if it does, should the Cards make a move to get him?

Without a doubt, my answer would be yes. I think Barr is the best player in the draft. If he's sitting there at 9-10, it probably would only take next year's #1, along with pick 20, to get him. To me, it's a no-brainer if they could get him for that.

I keep hearing long and fast from Arians and Keim (and my wife ). Barr fits both those criteria. I think he's a better prospect than Von Miller was when he entered the draft.

I doubt that. What's the motivation for the team trading down at that point? If your evaluation is right, there would be competition to move up.

I would guess that a 2014 #1, #3, and a 2015 #1 would be what someone would give up to go get a pass rusher like that.

At the same time, I think Keim values his mid- and high-round picks more than that. What's the marginal advantage to adding Barr over the next two seasons? If you're sending away your 2015 first rounder, it likely means that you're not going to be able to select a passing prospect until 2016.

Anthony Barr isn't the difference between going 9-7 and winning the Super Bowl. The offensive line is the difference.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Anthony Barr isn't the difference between going 9-7 and winning the Super Bowl. The offensive line is the difference.

Agreed, while Barr is a damn good prospect, getting a LT will improve this team the most per individual player picked.......if that makes any sense, LOL.

 

[Totally_Red]

I doubt that. What's the motivation for the team trading down at that point? If your evaluation is right, there would be competition to move up.

I would guess that a 2014 #1, #3, and a 2015 #1 would be what someone would give up to go get a pass rusher like that.

At the same time, I think Keim values his mid- and high-round picks more than that. What's the marginal advantage to adding Barr over the next two seasons? If you're sending away your 2015 first rounder, it likely means that you're not going to be able to select a passing prospect until 2016.

Anthony Barr isn't the difference between going 9-7 and winning the Super Bowl. The offensive line is the difference.

Agree. The other problem is the additional 750-thousand that the number 10 pick would hit the Cardinal's salary cap versus the number 20 pick {$2.25 million versus $1.5 million based on TN & Chicago cap hits from last season}.

 

[oaken1]

I like defense for our first pick,....or possibly a TE if an elite prospect is available.

Even if we sign a FA LT I would still like to draft one.....I find that I actually trust this coaching staff to teach players to get better.....

That being said, for LOT I like James Hurst of North Carolina in the third round. At 6'7" and 310 he has the proper size and build,...he was also the leader and top performer on his o-line all season,..admittedly while playing against mid-level competition...but one note from his bio stands out for me....

".....• Saw action on all 85 snaps at South Carolina and graded out at 84 percent with six knockdowns while matched up primarily against All-America defensive end Jadeveon Clowney......"

That tells me the young man is competitive and has game,...with good coaching and NFL caliber conditioning I believe this kid can be a force at LT in a year or so.............he is ranked on the big board at 114 which means he should be there in the third round as there will be a long run on defensive front seven players through the second...

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I doubt that. What's the motivation for the team trading down at that point? If your evaluation is right, there would be competition to move up.

I would guess that a 2014 #1, #3, and a 2015 #1 would be what someone would give up to go get a pass rusher like that.

At the same time, I think Keim values his mid- and high-round picks more than that. What's the marginal advantage to adding Barr over the next two seasons? If you're sending away your 2015 first rounder, it likely means that you're not going to be able to select a passing prospect until 2016.

Anthony Barr isn't the difference between going 9-7 and winning the Super Bowl. The offensive line is the difference.

Let's assume they sign a LT in free agency, whether they actually do or not is a different story, but, if they do, what player would have more impact on the team than a guy like Barr?

You could argue Ebron but a pass rusher like Barr is going to be more impactful than any TE, especially in an offense with Fitz and Floyd seeing the majority of the balls.

 

[cardpa]

Let's assume they sign a LT in free agency, whether they actually do or not is a different story, but, if they do, what player would have more impact on the team than a guy like Barr?

You could argue Ebron but a pass rusher like Barr is going to be more impactful than any TE, especially in an offense with Fitz and Floyd seeing the majority of the balls.

I tend to agree as i also see Ellington getting more touches on pass plays than this past year so he will take some targets from the TE position too. Dray and Ballard are not the worst combo at TE. Ballard caught more TDs than Housler in a few weeks than Housler caught his whole career so he is a good Red Zone target.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

I doubt that. What's the motivation for the team trading down at that point? If your evaluation is right, there would be competition to move up.

I would guess that a 2014 #1, #3, and a 2015 #1 would be what someone would give up to go get a pass rusher like that.

At the same time, I think Keim values his mid- and high-round picks more than that. What's the marginal advantage to adding Barr over the next two seasons? If you're sending away your 2015 first rounder, it likely means that you're not going to be able to select a passing prospect until 2016.

Anthony Barr isn't the difference between going 9-7 and winning the Super Bowl. The offensive line is the difference.

The trade value isnt really dependent on the player available when you get to the 8-10 range (different at 1 or 2 with a QB in play).

To move up from 20 to 10 would cost a 1st and a 3rd IMO. Whats the trade value chart say? NO way in hell do we trade next years first that would be lunacy.

 

[kerouac9]

Let's assume they sign a LT in free agency, whether they actually do or not is a different story, but, if they do, what player would have more impact on the team than a guy like Barr?

You could argue Ebron but a pass rusher like Barr is going to be more impactful than any TE, especially in an offense with Fitz and Floyd seeing the majority of the balls.

Even today, rookie pass rushers rarely make an impact in their first season. So then you're looking at Year 2, Year 3, and beyond. I guess if you're projecting that far out, you can say that a top-shelf rush linebacker prospect is going to be worth the cost.

But you also have to figure that Fitz is either going to be in steep decline and essentially a short-yardage receiver two years from now, or off the roster altogether. In that case, I'd argue that a receiving tight end and a 2015 first-round pick would likely have more impact in the middle-term.

 

[Chopper0080]

First off, I would love Barr, but let's recognize there are a ton of 3-4 edge rushers in this draft. Yes, they may not be as good, but they also wouldn't cost near as much.

Secondly, the better question is if Jake Matthews falls to the 8-11 range, and you only add one tackle in FA, do you trade up for him? Most would admit that our offensive line needs help and Jake Matthews would be an amazing RT to complement a free agent LT.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

First off, I would love Barr, but let's recognize there are a ton of 3-4 edge rushers in this draft. Yes, they may not be as good, but they also wouldn't cost near as much.

Secondly, the better question is if Jake Matthews falls to the 8-11 range, and you only add one tackle in FA, do you trade up for him? Most would admit that our offensive line needs help and Jake Matthews would be an amazing RT to complement a free agent LT.

Matthews is very good, but I'm not trading up for a RT. I'd trade up for a pass rusher, or QB, if QB was in play but if LT has been addresses via FA then those 2 positions would be the only ones I'd consider moving up for.

 

[DoTheDew]

I like Barr, but I don't really feel like trading up is a good option for us. We need our future picks.

We need to start looking for Dockett's replacement, Fitz's replacement, Abraham's replacement parhaps even Palmer's replacement and Sendlein's replacement (he'll be 30 at the start of next season). We also may need an ILB if Minter doesn't develop. Dansby is no spring chicken and we may lose him in FA.

And all that is assuming we solve our major needs for next year: LT, TE, SS, CB#2, speed WR.

I agree we need a pass rusher, but we need a lot over the next few years and I don't think we need Barr so badly that it's worth leaving major holes at other positions long term.

 

[Duckjake]

Even today, rookie pass rushers rarely make an impact in their first season. So then you're looking at Year 2, Year 3, and beyond. I guess if you're projecting that far out, you can say that a top-shelf rush linebacker prospect is going to be worth the cost.

But you also have to figure that Fitz is either going to be in steep decline and essentially a short-yardage receiver two years from now, or off the roster altogether. In that case, I'd argue that a receiving tight end and a 2015 first-round pick would likely have more impact in the middle-term.

You really think so? Several of the top pass rushing OLB's did fairly well as rookies. Von Miller had 14 sacks, Brian Orakpo had 11, Suggs had 12, Aldon Smith 14, Clay Mathews had 10, DeMarcus Ware had 8.

Even guys like Acho had 7 sacks as a rookie in half a season and Whitney Mercilus had 6 despite the QB usually being on the ground by the time he got there because of JJ Watt. Acho had a huge impact. But mainly because Joey Porter was so bad???

On the other hand none of the OLB's taken in the first round last April did much and I guess you could find just as many in other years that didn't have an impact as I found that did.

So who knows?

 

[Buckybird]

You really think so? Several of the top pass rushing OLB's did fairly well as rookies. Von Miller had 14 sacks, Brian Orakpo had 11, Suggs had 12, Aldon Smith 14, Clay Mathews had 10, DeMarcus Ware had 8.

Even guys like Acho had 7 sacks as a rookie in half a season and Whitney Mercilus had 6 despite the QB usually being on the ground by the time he got there because of JJ Watt. Acho had a huge impact. But mainly because Joey Porter was so bad???

On the other hand none of the OLB's taken in the first round last April did much and I guess you could find just as many in other years that didn't have an impact as I found that did.

So who knows?

 

[Finito]

This draft is really deep with pass rushing OLB. I like Barr a lot and if he's there you take him but if he's not is there really that big a difference between him and kyle van noy? I don't really think there is.

While we don't have that monster we are pretty solid with Abraham and getting Acho and Okafor back.

TE,OL,OLB in that order for me in the first round

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

This draft is really deep with pass rushing OLB. I like Barr a lot and if he's there you take him but if he's not is there really that big a difference between him and kyle van noy? I don't really think there is.

While we don't have that monster we are pretty solid with Abraham and getting Acho and Okafor back.

TE,OL,OLB in that order for me in the first round

The pass rushing OLB class is deep but there are only 2 elite prospects, Clowney and Barr. I think there is a significant drop off between those 2 and the rest of the field. One of the lesser guys will emerge because it always happens but Barr and Clowney can have Von Miller-type impacts and are much more likely too.

I woldn't pass at a chance for an elite guy because Acho and Okafor are on the roster. And who knows when Abraham will fall off the cliff to Joey Porter land.

 

[kerouac9]

You really think so? Several of the top pass rushing OLB's did fairly well as rookies. Von Miller had 14 sacks, Brian Orakpo had 11, Suggs had 12, Aldon Smith 14, Clay Mathews had 10, DeMarcus Ware had 8.

Even guys like Acho had 7 sacks as a rookie in half a season and Whitney Mercilus had 6 despite the QB usually being on the ground by the time he got there because of JJ Watt. Acho had a huge impact. But mainly because Joey Porter was so bad???

On the other hand none of the OLB's taken in the first round last April did much and I guess you could find just as many in other years that didn't have an impact as I found that did.

So who knows?

Yeah, in 2011 Von Miller did very well, but Robert Quinn had only 5 sacks his rookie season. Two years later, he's a defensive MVP candidate.

J.J. Watt only had 5.5 sacks as a rookie. Cameron Jordan had 1 sack his rookie year for the Saints.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

This draft is really deep with pass rushing OLB. I like Barr a lot and if he's there you take him but if he's not is there really that big a difference between him and kyle van noy? I don't really think there is.

While we don't have that monster we are pretty solid with Abraham and getting Acho and Okafor back.

TE,OL,OLB in that order for me in the first round

THIS IS NOT A CHALLENGE TO YOUR STATEMENT.

Could you list a couple a pass rushing prospects you like ?

When I look, I am WAY to critical, and have a hard time listing the guys in the later rounds.

 

[Duckjake]

Yeah, in 2011 Von Miller did very well, but Robert Quinn had only 5 sacks his rookie season. Two years later, he's a defensive MVP candidate.

J.J. Watt only had 5.5 sacks as a rookie. Cameron Jordan had 1 sack his rookie year for the Saints.

Quinn, Watt, and Jordan are all Defensive Ends not OLB's.

Like I wrote, you could find several OLB pass rushers who didn't have much impact as a rookie but my question is that with the guys I listed doing well is it really rarely that a rookie OLB pass rusher has an impact? So rare that you wouldn't use high draft capital on one?

Interesting topic for discussion anyway.

 

[Finito]

THIS IS NOT A CHALLENGE TO YOUR STATEMENT.

Could you list a couple a pass rushing prospects you like ?

When I look, I am WAY to critical, and have a hard time listing the guys in the later rounds.

I think Khalil Mack might be the best defensive player in the county even better than Barr or Clowney. Dee Ford from Aurburn is really fast off the edge so is Ryan Shazier from OSU those guys strike me more as one dimensional speed guys.Van Not isn't the pass rushing demon those guys are but he is more complete than Ford or Sahzier he never stops moving.the kid with the crazy name from GT is just a pure pass rusher reminds me of Aldon smith he just does one thing but he's damn good at it. Michael Sam is a good one as well .

Plenty of good OLB in this draft

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I think Khalil Mack might be the best defensive player in the county even better than Barr or Clowney. Dee Ford from Aurburn is really fast off the edge so is Ryan Shazier from OSU those guys strike me more as one dimensional speed guys.Van Not isn't the pass rushing demon those guys are but he is more complete than Ford or Sahzier he never stops moving.the kid with the crazy name from GT is just a pure pass rusher reminds me of Aldon smith he just does one thing but he's damn good at it. Michael Sam is a good one as well .

Plenty of good OLB in this draft

Btw, I asked if my friend if Van Noy was as good as he thought during Senior Bowl week. He just responded quickly, "Yes, super talented".

 

[Mitch]

Btw, I asked if my friend if Van Noy was as good as he thought during Senior Bowl week. He just responded quickly, "Yes, super talented".

Van Noy is going to be one of the real new wave OLBers that teams will covet more and more because he is like having a queen on the chessboard. He can run stride for stride with any TE in the league---which in itself, at his size, 6-3, 250, imho, makes him first round worthy. The fact that can also wreak some havoc on the edge makes him multi-dimensional and a DC's dream. In our division, the NFC West, he would be an ideal chess piece for the Cardinals because he can cover Vernon Davis and he has the edge speed and quickness to track down and/or spy on Wilson and Kaepernick.

 

[Finito]

Btw, I asked if my friend if Van Noy was as good as he thought during Senior Bowl week. He just responded quickly, "Yes, super talented".

That wasn't meant as a diss, that's just stupid auto correct on this tablet. I wouldn't be mad if they took Van Noy at 20

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

That wasn't meant as a diss, that's just stupid auto correct on this tablet. I wouldn't be mad if they took Van Noy at 20

I didn't even notice. I was just highlighting Van Noy.