Any Michigan fans...

[SeattleCard]

That can tell us more about Navarre?

What type of QB is he? (compare his style to another NFL QB). Does he have the intangibles? Is he mobile when the pocket is collapsing? Accurate arm? I guess I'm interested in those who watched his college career because that is all we really have to go by right now.

I'm on the fence with this decision. I think I'd rather see Josh in there, but at this point I am willing to see what Navarre can do.

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

That can tell us more about Navarre?

What type of QB is he? (compare his style to another NFL QB). Does he have the intangibles? Is he mobile when the pocket is collapsing? Accurate arm? I guess I'm interested in those who watched his college career because that is all we really have to go by right now.

I'm on the fence with this decision. I think I'd rather see Josh in there, but at this point I am willing to see what Navarre can do.

I'm not a Michigan fan but of course watched the dude a few times. As I type this I'm cleaning the Cutty Sark and water off my computer screen after reading your mobile and pocket and collapsing question. He's 6'6"-250 and unlike Big Ben he wasn't the point guard on his HS basketball team. Trying not to be the smarta$$ that I am (it's not working) but I think Navarre will have a feast or famine day. We'll after the game say "How'd he slip to round 7?" or we'll be saying "We took a chance but it didn't work out."

To answer some of your other questions.... I think his arm is NFL strong. Is it NFL accurate? We'll find out on Sunday.

Football is so emotional that I like the Ann Arbor/Detroit thing....like our backs against the wall....what do we have to lose?

 

[Russ Smith]

That can tell us more about Navarre?

What type of QB is he? (compare his style to another NFL QB). Does he have the intangibles? Is he mobile when the pocket is collapsing? Accurate arm? I guess I'm interested in those who watched his college career because that is all we really have to go by right now.

I'm on the fence with this decision. I think I'd rather see Josh in there, but at this point I am willing to see what Navarre can do.

Scouting report from NFL.com on their draft page.

ANALYSIS
Positives: Tall, with good development in his shoulders, arms, legs and calves … Sets his feet and shows quickness with a long stride to get to his throwing spot … Has a quick delivery and good arm strength with the ability to throw deep with speed behind his tosses … Shows good poise and keeps his teammates in control, as he has complete command of the huddle … Very accurate in the short and intermediate passing game, whether vs. man or zone coverage … Has adequate accuracy and touch on his deep throws and good pocket awareness, knowing when to step up in the pocket … Displays good timing, anticipating when his receivers will get open … Does not hesitate to check off on his secondary targets when his primary one is covered … Not a true scrambler, but can throw on the move … Tireless worker who takes well to hard coaching … Still needs better judgment on his long throws, but has made steady improvement in this area and also in reducing his interceptions each year … Can throw a hard, straight ball with good velocity … Works hard in the off-season to stay in condition and prepares for each game with intensity (studies countless number of tapes) … Not real fast, but for a player his size, he shows good flexibility and quickness to stay in the action and make plays.
Negatives: Frame looks more like that of a basketball player than a football player … Will come over with a three-quarter-arm motion and release at times … Does not always see the coverage developing on deep tosses and tends to hang the ball up with too much air behind it when going long … Not an effective scrambler, exposing the ball too much, leading to costly fumbles … Has good arm strength, but loses accuracy on long routes (receivers have to work to get to the ball).

 

[Kolo]

Here's another one:

JOHN NAVARRE (6’6” 228) QB MICHIGAN – I dare you to find anyone in college athletics that has lived in a bigger (Rick Leach-like) fishbowl than the 3+ year Wolverine starter. In fact Navarre is the first UofM QB to start four straight season openers since Rick Leach from 1975-78. But by finally winning the big game v. Ohio State with a 21-32, 278 yard, 2 TD performance – Navarre won over even his harshest critics. Not to mention that Navarre only rewrote the Michigan record book during his career, pretty impressive especially considering that five of the last six Wolverine QB’s have gone on to the NFL (make it six for six if and when Drew Henson gives up on his baseball career). Michigan has thrown the ball more than ever in their history with Navarre at the helm, who threw 385 times in 2001, 448 in 2002, and 410 going into UM’s Rose Bowl appearance this year. Navarre also became the first Michigan QB to throw for 3,000 yards in a season. Completion percentage has never been high, 53.5, 55.4, and 59.3 percent. What has been impressive is the TD to INT ratio, 44/16 over the past two seasons, which is attested to Navarre making the smart plays and not making mistakes. Navarre will have more challenges to rise up to at the next level. Despite being 6’6”, Navarre tends to have a lot of balls knocked down due to a low release point. Sometimes has too much velocity on the short throws, but is good at throwing the outs as well as the deep ball, especially when he gets protection in the pocket. Is not a runner, but will make a run for the sticks when need be. Navarre has tendencies to throw the ball high and is not good throwing on the run. Is very smart, never gets flustered and reads through his progressions well. Was 33-4 in his high school career, and was rated the #5 pro-style QB by one recruiting publication. Don’t expect Navarre to be a Pro Bowl QB, but at the very least as a reliable backup or a starter in a system where he’s asked not to carry the team, but just do enough to win (think Miami, NY Giants). Don’t expect him to be a high draft pick (remember Tom Brady was a late sixth-round pick), but more as a low-risk third or fourth round selection

 

[BuckeyeCardinal]

"Don’t expect Navarre to be a Pro Bowl QB, but at the very least as a reliable backup or a starter in a system where he’s asked not to carry the team, but just do enough to win (think Miami, NY Giants). Don’t expect him to be a high draft pick (remember Tom Brady was a late sixth-round pick), but more as a low-risk third or fourth round selection."

Just do enough to win baby.

 

[imaCafan]

Why did Brady last 'til round#6? Is Navarre that much worse of a College QB than Brady was?????

 

[Pariah]

Oh, man...Hope springs eternal.

I'm getting sucked into the possibility that he could be the QB we're looking for after reading the analysis. I don't want to have any hope that can be shattered come this time next week, but there it is anyway.

I think I'm going to treat the Hope just like I treat the elephant in the room--I'm going to ignore it.

 

[Russ Smith]

Why did Brady last 'til round#6? Is Navarre that much worse of a College QB than Brady was?????

Because Brady didn't play as much at Michigan as we're used to. He basically started 2 years, much of that time in a 2 QB situation.

He backed up Griese early in his career, then he competed with Drew Henson. Henson was called the best athlete in the history of Michigan (the university not the state), had a pro baseball contract, and made it quite clear if he didn't play, he was leaving to play baseball. So Lloyd Carr gave in to pressure and played him. Brady was the starter, but Henson played too and it impacted how people saw Brady. He's not good enough to start alone.

Brady was fairly highly recruited, he's from San mateo in Northern California, played at Serra HS which is in the private West Catholic League, was a pretty good baseball player himself. But he wasn't the son of an NFL QB(Griese) and wasn't a Yankee farmhand(Henson). Henson had a huge arm, Griese had the pedigree, it was actually fairly understandable why Brady got overlooked.

People always cite Brady as if all 6th round picks pan out, he's the exception not the rule.

Navarre hopefully will be too, I just don't think he's ready to start.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

I saw Navarre alot in college.The guy has talent.I mean you don't start a university like Michigan for 3 years and not be able to play.The good thing is he's played against top notch competition and played pretty well. He's also played with some pretty talented receivers.Michigan has a good reputation with their Qb's doing well in the pro's.Based on what i saw in college, i thought he'd be a better pro prospect than Griese or Brady,especially Griese. I doubt he even comes close to Brady who surprised everyone but i can see him being better,or as good as Griese.He has a better arm than both of them. The main knock on him is his lack of mobility and if that was a problem in college it may be amplified at the pro level. I don't think he'll be in awe on Sunday.It will just be a matter of him being able to play up to NFL speed.

 

[Matt L]

Brady didn't really tear it up at michigan though. i remember when they played notre dame in 98 that he wasn't playing very well and they wen't to henson in the second half. i know that most sixth round draft choices do not turn into all pro players, but there was a point after college the tom brady became what he was.

 

[Russ Smith]

I saw Navarre alot in college.The guy has talent.I mean you don't start a university like Michigan for 3 years and not be able to play.The good thing is he's played against top notch competition and played pretty well. He's also played with some pretty talented receivers.Michigan has a good reputation with their Qb's doing well in the pro's.Based on what i saw in college, i thought he'd be a better pro prospect than Griese or Brady,especially Griese. I doubt he even comes close to Brady who surprised everyone but i can see him being better,or as good as Griese.He has a better arm than both of them. The main knock on him is his lack of mobility and if that was a problem in college it may be amplified at the pro level. I don't think he'll be in awe on Sunday.It will just be a matter of him being able to play up to NFL speed.

True but it was an unusual circumstance that gave him that playing time. The plan all along was Henson play out his senior year with Navarre as the backup. Recruit a big name QB. Navarre starts as redshirt soph, groom Freshman. Then next year Navarre and groomed soph compete for job. Problem was the guy they wanted, (forget the name) asked for a guarantee that he'd play, Henson swore he was staying in school, so the guy signed somewhere else. so when Henson left they not only didn't have Henson, they didn't have the recruit.

That's how Navarre wound up starting. He was a solid player but after Griese, Brady and Henson, he was hit with unfair expectations.

I guess his history says he won't give up, which I like, other Qb's would have given up and transferred facing what he faced at Michigan. Wish him luck.

 

[arthurracoon]

I guess his history says he won't give up, which I like, other Qb's would have given up and transferred facing what he faced at Michigan. Wish him luck.

 

[AmareFan]

This guy is the real deal!!!! Go BLue!!


At Michigan... four-year letterman ... three-year starter at quarterback ... played in 50 career games and started 42 contests ... threw for over 200 yards 28 times in his career and over 300 yards on four occasions ... became first Wolverine to surpass 9,000 career passing yards ... completed 765-of-1366 passes (55.9 pct.) for 9,254 yards and 72 touchdowns ... holds seven season passing records and six career passing records at Michigan ... participated in Senior Bowl following 2003 season.


Senior Year:
5th Year (2003)... earned fourth varsity letter ... All-Big Ten first team (coaches and media) ... Robert P. Ufer Bequest recipient as the top senior football player who demonstrates enthusiasm and love for Michigan ... finalist for the Johnny Unitas Golden Arm Award ... semifinalist for the Davey O'Brien National Quarterback Award ... completed 270-of-456 passes for 3,331 yards and 24 touchdowns ... first quarterback in Michigan history to surpass 3,000 passing yards in a season ... threw at least one touchdown pass in all 13 games ... threw for over 200 yards in a school-record 10 of the 13 contests ... finished second in the Big Ten in passing and total offense ... completed 19-of-33 passes for 245 yards and two touchdowns vs. Central Michigan (Aug. 30), his fourth straight start in an opener ... completed 500th career pass, reached 6,000 career yards and threw 50th career touchdown against the Chippewas ... set Michigan’s career record for total offensive plays (1,043) vs. Central Michigan ... completed 13-of-30 passes for 136 yards and one touchdown vs. Houston (Sept. 6) ... set Michigan’s career record for completions against the Cougars (527) ... went 14-of-21 passing for 199 yards and one touchdown vs. Notre Dame (Sept. 13) ... set Michigan’s career record for passing yards against the Irish (6,503) ... set career highs in completions, attempts and yards with 360 yards on 28-of-55 passing and three touchdowns vs. Oregon (Sept. 20) ... completed 15-of-24 passes for 161 yards with two touchdowns and two interceptions vs. Indiana (Sept. 27) ... also rushed three times for 16 yards against the Hoosiers ... became the first Wolverine quarterback to surpass 7,000 yards passing in his career in the Indiana game ... threw for a school-record 389 yards and two touchdowns on 26-for-49 yards at Iowa (Oct. 4) ... tossed a season-best 71-yard pass to Jason Avant against the Hawkeyes ... completed 33-of-47 passes at Minnesota (Oct. 10) for 353 yards and two touchdowns ... also rushed six times for three yards and caught a 36-yard touchdown pass from Steve Breaston against the Gophers ... attempted first career punt, a 45-yarder vs. Minnesota ... his 33 completions were a career-best and set a Michigan regular season record ... earned the Big Ten offensive player of the Week award for his performance against Minnesota ... completed 18-of-27 passes vs. Illinois (Oct. 18) for 203 yards and one touchdown ... completed 17-of-30 passes for 225 yards and two touchdowns vs. Purdue (Oct. 25) ... completed 17-of-31 passes for 223 yards and three touchdowns at Michigan State (Nov. 1) ... started his 40th career game at Northwestern (Nov. 15) ... completed 22-of-31 passes for 288 passes and two touchdowns to tie career season best 21 TDs (2002) ... completed 21-of-32 passes for 278 yards and two touchdowns vs. Ohio State (Nov. 22) ... threw a career-long 64-yard touchdown pass against the Buckeyes ... two touchdown passes against the Buckeyes pushed his career total to 71, tying him with Elvis Grbac for the Michigan record ... completed 27-of-46 passes for 271 yards and one touchdowns against top-ranked Southern California in the Rose Bowl (Jan. 1) ... set U-M's career touchdown record with a five-yard pass to tight end Tim Massaquoi during the third quarter of the Rose Bowl.

 

[Ryanwb]

Someone I was talking to said they had met John Navarre's father at training camp and he said his family was ridiculed and abused by the Michigan fans and John was hated, despised, etc....

Any truth to this??

 

[Wolverine]

Someone I was talking to said they had met John Navarre's father at training camp and he said his family was ridiculed and abused by the Michigan fans and John was hated, despised, etc....

Any truth to this??

Absolutely. Michigan fans expect a lot out of their QBs and Navarre was not an exception. See this article:
http://www.michigandaily.com/vnews/display.v/ART/2003/11/24/3fc1a30badfb2

Russ Smith posted these on another thread:
Larry Navarre has sat through enough Michigan football games to know it is better to walk around, watch the game on television monitors and listen to his portable radio.

In other words, tune out the rest of the world, because it can be tough in the stands -- home and away -- listening to criticism directed at your son.

Navarre's son, John, is the Wolverines' starting quarterback, a fifth-year senior who has taken his share of biting and, at times, venomous criticism throughout his career.

The kid is too slow. He locks in on receivers. He throws too high. He can't win the big game.

And that's the nice stuff.

Many parents of Michigan players stand out because they proudly wear their sons' jerseys, and many, mostly the mothers, wear buttons with pictures of their football-playing sons.

Larry Navarre wears neither. It is better, he finds, to be incognito when checking into hotel rooms during game weekends, when he looks for his stadium seat and when he is waiting for his son after a game.

"I remember two years ago, I was standing next to a post (at Michigan Stadium), smoking, and this man and his little 9-year-old were standing next to me, and he was saying, 'That Navarre stinks,' " Navarre said.

"I just walked to the next post. Well, he followed me over there. There were some other words he said, and I turned around, looked at him and said, 'How old is your son?' He said, 'Nine years old." And I said, 'Boy, I'm sure you kind of hope he can play for Michigan someday,' and he said that would be a dream come true. I told him, 'You may want to rethink that because some fans are really cruel when they start talking about your kid.' And he looked at me and said, 'You're not John's dad, are you?' I said, 'Yeah, I am.' He said he should probably leave, and I said, 'Yeah, that would be a good idea.' "

AND

Larry Navarre has seen and heard far too much to chalk up what he considers rude and nasty behavior to the college football environment.

Two years ago, he took his 75-year-old mother to a game to watch her grandson.

"There were some mid-20-ish guys there, and they started with the (obscenities) about John," Navarre said.

He leaned over and asked them to watch the language in front of his mother.

"And then 15 minutes later, they're doing it again," he said. "I said, 'Hey, that's enough, guys,' and one said, 'I paid and I can say whatever I want,' and I said, 'No, you can't. This is his grandma, I'm his dad, and I'm not going to tolerate it.' By halftime, they left."

Larry Navarre has taken several of his son's high school friends to games. They always wear Navarre's No. 16 jersey. Almost always, Larry said, he has to restrain his son's friends because they can't stand hearing their friend being ripped so vociferously.

After games, Larry Navarre always can be found outside Michigan's locker room waiting for his son. He walks with John from outside Crisler Arena all the way to the parking lot at Schembechler Hall, a fairly lengthy walk. Navarre admits he is there just in case.

"Win or lose, I'm going to be there," Navarre said. "Part of the reason I'm there is because walking with John through the parking lot can get kind of rough." Some fans shout obscenities even if his son is signing autographs for youngsters.

John Navarre has stopped going downtown after games like the rest of the student body because, his father said, he has been "challenged" too many times. Instead, father and son go back to the hotel, cook out, then call it a night early, and Navarre goes back to his apartment.

Larry Navarre said he has never regretted a day his son has been at Michigan. He has learned not to listen to his son's critics and has learned restraint. After all, what could be worse than reading about the quarterback's father arrested for hitting a fan?

"It's not fun sitting in the stands," Navarre said. "I never thought I would think this way on the debate of college kids being paid. But last year, I thought, if my son can take that type of abuse from fans and media, then he should be paid. People forget, this is college football.