Anyone still miss Amare?

jagu

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Other than slinslin of course..

I remember taking a lot of heat when I said I didn't want to resign Amare. He really looks off this year and father time seems to have arrived on his knees. Suns would have been effed if they signed him to a long deal. Of course the Suns would be a better show right now with him but they weren't going to win a ring with his lack of defense or IQ on the defensive end of the game.
 

JS22

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Yes.

The Knicks offense is a mess. I won't go as far as saying that Nash WAS Dantoni's offense, but I think he needs a smart, distributing PG to make it work. The Knicks don't have that. Plus, Amare and Anthony is about the worst fit possible.

If there was some way to put Amare back on this team we'd probably be looking at a top 5 seed in the West. Gortat would hide a lot of Amare's deficiencies. Funny how the Suns have been looking for the perfect C to put next to Amare and finally found him. After Amare left.

Nash
Dudley
Hill
Amare
Gortat

Offensively it fits so perfectly if you look at it. Nash is the engine, as he always has been. Dudley and Hill help spread the floor. (Assuming that they both get out of their shooting slumps.) Amare remains the ultimate P&R threat with Nash. Able to both drive to the basket and pick & pop. Gortat gives Nash a 2nd, viable P&R threat and would get a lot of 2nd chance points since he'd be able to roam a little more with Amare handling most of the big-man offensive duties.

Defensively, Amare can do what he does best, get cheap blocks and possible grab an extra rebound or two since Gortat actually blocks out.
 
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jagu

jagu

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Yes.

Nash
Dudley
Hill
Amare
Gortat


1. We probably would never get Gortat if Amare was here.
2. That above team won't win you a ring.
3. Still have some seriously old players at key positions and Amare's knees would be a serious concern.
 

JS22

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Regarding Gortat, it was hypothetical. I'm also not taking Amare's knees into account.

Yes, they're old. But this Suns team is seriously lacking a "go to" guy. Amare would be that guy. He'd instantly make them an upper-tier team in the West. With at least a chance at making a run. Right now it's Steve Nash and a bunch of role players.

Now, taking into account Amare's contract and, I guess, potential knee issues I wouldn't bring him back. I was just stating how much better they'd be right now if you could magically put him back on the roster and ignore everything else.
 

elindholm

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He'd instantly make them an upper-tier team in the West.

No higher than 6th, in my opinion. I'd still put them below (in no particular order) Oklahoma City, Dallas, Portland, and both Los Angeles teams. With the Spurs it would be close. Stoudemire is a good player, but he's not at the level that transforms a lottery team into a contender.
 

JS22

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I'm betting that, if kept together, this current roster is going to hover just below .500 (hooray late lottery pick) by the end of the season. I just don't see how they won't break out of their team-wide shooting slump.

If they're hitting their shots I think Amare propels them into a much better team with a chance to compete for a top 5 seed. Just because he balances out the roster and is exactly what the Suns need. They are sorely lacking someone who can give you 25 a night on a consistent basis if needed. NY is an awful situation for him with ball-hog Anthony and an offense that looks completely lost.

I could be totally wrong. But that's just how I see it.
 

JustWinBaby

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Yes I miss Amare.

I like winning and fun baketball to watch. Amare brought both of those things with him.

Is he, was he, a risk due to his physcial problems, surely. That is the only reason for us not to have resigned him. We would have been a better team now and going forward with him. Health was the reason not to resign him and is a legit concern. Time will tell the story on that issue.

The excuse that you cannot win a championhip with him is old and flawed. That is yet to be proven. I expect Nash fits that category better, even though he still has a chance if he goes to another team this off season. Barkley was a fan favorite he definitely proved you could never win a Championship with him on it. It never happened and never will.

If Nash does end up New York with D'Antonni both could fulfill their resumes with a Championship with Amare also on that team.

With Nash and Baron Davis running the point and getting everyone involved while adding potentially Kenyon Martin and JR Smith they could get scary good.

That could happen.
 

slinslin

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Ofc you would rather still have Amare than Warrick and Childress.

Now it is moot, would never take back the contract since we couldnt even amnesty it and are too far from competing.

Plus there being too many PF prospects in the draft like Davis, Robinson, Jones, Sullinger, Young, Henson..
 

JCSunsfan

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I miss the old Amare but not that guy I saw last night. if we had signed amare we would be regretting it right now. in the end not signing amare will have been a good decision.

Amare's poor defense really showed last night . Gortat is a more productive player because of his overall game .
 
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slinslin

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Not really, Gortat can't overtake games, Gortat is productive but not a difference maker.

Knicks were a pretty decent team when Amare was the man on the team.

I always said trading for Carmelo is stupid for them. They are basically the same offensive players. Want the ball in the same positions etc.. It was bound to fail.
 

Mainstreet

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I miss the old Amare but not that guy I saw last night. if we had signed amare we would be regretting it right now. in the end not signing amare will have been a good decision.

Amare's poor defense really showed last night . Gortat is a more productive player because of his overall game .

I agree although as slinslin suggests the Suns would have better off if Sarver had not played GM and signed Warrick and Childress. Luckily, the Suns were able to undo much of the damage of the Turoglu signing.
 

ASUCHRIS

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No higher than 6th, in my opinion. I'd still put them below (in no particular order) Oklahoma City, Dallas, Portland, and both Los Angeles teams. With the Spurs it would be close. Stoudemire is a good player, but he's not at the level that transforms a lottery team into a contender.

Really? While we'd still need a shooting guard, I'd have us solidly in the upper half of the West. While it's still early, outside of OKC, I think every other WCF team is pretty flawed. Amare would give us the go to scorer we so desperately need and would allow everyone else to slip into their intended roles. Frye could be a super sub, the 3 point shooters would have more time and space, and Gortat would perfectly compliment Amare.

Sure there was risk in re-signing Amare, but the last 2 years would have been a hell of a lot more exciting than now. Further, as players continue to re-sign with their current teams (see Westbrook) or only flirt with big cities (Howard), I'd love to know who people think we're going to get. Amare had his risks, but has been mostly healthy the last 2 seasons.

We're going to be sitting on a pile of money with nobody to spend it on. Just glad we're keeping the powder dry.
 

JustWinBaby

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I miss the old Amare but not that guy I saw last night. if we had signed amare we would be regretting it right now. in the end not signing amare will have been a good decision.

Amare's poor defense really showed last night . Gortat is a more productive player because of his overall game .

Wow

I didn't see that. I saw Amare miss a butt load of shots he usually would make, while generally not getting the ball in good spots. Gortat was pretty good in the beginning but he did not dominate anyone especially Amare. Sometimes Amare detractors only see what they want to see. He beat Amare a couple but that happens to everyone. Amare had more to do with his bad shooting than Gortat. Gortat actually regressed as the game went on, while not being much of a factor in the 4th Qtr. Gentry let him have it about something near the end of the game. It appeared that he did not like the physical play. If he has a problem with that he will never be what everyone hopes, including me. As you progress in this league and start posting some good numbers you become a marked man. Gortat is just now becoming that guy. I hope he is up to the challenge.

Robin played well and I think he enjoyed the physical play.

This victory belongs to Steve Nash. He was the best player on the court. If Nash switches uniforms it is a Knick Blow out.

The loss belongs to Carmelo. He is just horrible. He has a bad foot and a bad hand and still forced up horrible shots that should never have been taken. Amare bascially took good shots, he just missed them. Denver made a fantastic trade, good for them.
 

elindholm

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Amare would give us the go to scorer we so desperately need and would allow everyone else to slip into their intended roles.

I think Stoudemire's reputation as a "go-to scorer" is overrated, and I felt that even while he was in Phoenix, although I did like him as a player (and still do). Over and over I watched games in which the Suns would try to force-feed Stoudemire down the stretch and it didn't work. (By the way, I watched the New York feed for last night's game, and Walt "Clyde" Frazier made the same point: That's just not Stoudemire's strength.) He is too easily frustrated by big players who hold their ground against him (like Gortat did last night), and he never diversified his post moves enough to become less predictable in that position. Pretty much the only thing he has added to his game since entering the league is improved mid-range shooting, which he usually doesn't trust in tight spots. You're talking about someone who shot only 50% from the field last season, which is only about average for an All-Star big man, and that's with all of his highlight-reel dunks.

If you magically add Stoudemire to this year's Suns team, then compare that roster to the Nash/Stoudemire teams that went to the WCF, I think you'll find that they aren't close. Yes, Gortat is better than any of the other big men, but that's the only advantage that the hypothetical 2012 squad has. The role players are much worse, and both Nash and Stoudemire are less effective now than they were several years ago.

Further, as players continue to re-sign with their current teams (see Westbrook) or only flirt with big cities (Howard), I'd love to know who people think we're going to get.

The Suns will have to rebuild mainly through the draft and hope to be in the right place at the right time when a star comes on the FA market or goes on the trading block. I agree that nothing dramatic is likely to happen this summer. There is no quick fix. Hopefully the front office will remain patient this time instead of blowing the money on a bunch of stupid deals on role players again.
 

SweetD

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I would like to see Amare along with Gortat but not Amare alone we would still be were we are at.
 

ASUCHRIS

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I think Stoudemire's reputation as a "go-to scorer" is overrated, and I felt that even while he was in Phoenix, although I did like him as a player (and still do). Over and over I watched games in which the Suns would try to force-feed Stoudemire down the stretch and it didn't work. (By the way, I watched the New York feed for last night's game, and Walt "Clyde" Frazier made the same point: That's just not Stoudemire's strength.) He is too easily frustrated by big players who hold their ground against him (like Gortat did last night), and he never diversified his post moves enough to become less predictable in that position. Pretty much the only thing he has added to his game since entering the league is improved mid-range shooting, which he usually doesn't trust in tight spots. You're talking about someone who shot only 50% from the field last season, which is only about average for an All-Star big man, and that's with all of his highlight-reel dunks.


True enough, I agree with most of what you said. Still, in terms of big men, I think you can maybe count on one hand the number of guys that are as talented offensively as Amare. Amare put up amazing numbers in the first half of last season, and then D'A ran him into the ground (shocking, I know) and the Melo disaster happened. With the team being 20-22 since the addition of Melo, I think that's all you need to know about how that trade worked, and it's impact on Amare.

Further, I don't think there is a better big man running the pick and roll than Amare, and he has nobody to run it with. Why even have Amare on the team if you're not going to use his overwhelming strength?

Not sure if you saw it or not, but after the game, Nash and Amare were talking for a couple minutes, and it was pretty obvious how much both appreciate and miss the impact of the other. You put Amare back with Nash, and I guarantee his shooting percentage goes up, and he's back to the old Stat.

It's a real shame for both Nash and Amare, Nash rotting away with a insulting joke of a roster, as his career slips away in limbo, while Amare stands around and watches melo chuck shot after shot, effectively marginalizing one of the best offensive weapons in the game.

Whether or not we had a legitimate chance of winning a championship is somewhat irrelevant to me. Just the opportunity to watch that combination, and know that the team would be entertaining if not very successful is a bitter pill to swallow, as our team fights and claws our way to the bottom.

If you magically add Stoudemire to this year's Suns team, then compare that roster to the Nash/Stoudemire teams that went to the WCF, I think you'll find that they aren't close.

Aren't close? In comparison to the 2009-10 team, I'd say we're definitely weaker at SG, and backup PG, but much better at C. I would give a slight edge to the 09-10 team, but add a better SG, and I'd probably take this team.



both Nash and Stoudemire are less effective now than they were several years ago.

I don't know how much I'd agree with this. Nash continues to put up similar numbers despite losing his #1 target, and through the first half of last year, Amare was an MVP candidate. While maybe not as good as before, I think together they'd put up very similar #'s to in 09-10.




The Suns will have to rebuild mainly through the draft and hope to be in the right place at the right time when a star comes on the FA market or goes on the trading block. I agree that nothing dramatic is likely to happen this summer. There is no quick fix. Hopefully the front office will remain patient this time instead of blowing the money on a bunch of stupid deals on role players again.

Yeah, these are dark days indeed, the worst by far in a very long time. Even during the Marbury years, we still had Marion in his prime, along with Joe Johnson and Amare. There was at least something you could point to as hope for the future. For the good of the franchise, we really need to hit another home run in the draft, because with the way the league is structured, good players from this point on are unlikely to change teams.
 

Covert Rain

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Amare was one of my favorite players but oddly enough I don't miss him. Simply because he never rebounded or played enough defense for us which became a constant source of frustration watching him night in and night out.

I was done with Amare by the time he ended up with New York.
 

JCSunsfan

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If you magically add Stoudemire to this year's Suns team, then compare that roster to the Nash/Stoudemire teams that went to the WCF, I think you'll find that they aren't close. Yes, Gortat is better than any of the other big men, but that's the only advantage that the hypothetical 2012 squad has. The role players are much worse, and both Nash and Stoudemire are less effective now than they were several years ago..

Agreed. Nash is not what he was then. Yes, he is putting up the numbers, but that is because he has to. This team is not nearly as fast as those teams were. It was not uncommon for them to score within 3 seconds of a made basket, running the fast break off of makes. When is the last time we have seen that?
 

Mainstreet

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To make it clear, I miss the memory of the athletic Amare who played with the Suns. He brought the Suns an explosive big man, something which has not been replaced. I wish the ride could have continued and I never heard the word micro-fracture. He had the chance to make some big money in NY so I cannot blame him for leaving. Athletes need to make the their money while they can. Amare would have stayed in Phoenix if the Suns risked paying him $100M which still seems unwise. I have more fond memories of Amare unlike Joe Johnson who forced his way out.
 

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