Anyone wish Amare well in NY?

[pokerface]

Way to cherry pick. Amare drew constant double teams freeing up other people, scored in bunches at times and generally gave teams fits trying to guard him. He helped more then hurt the Suns. Your acting like he wasn't a huge part of the teams success after he got here.

I hope Amare does well.

I'm not "acting" llike anything. Of course he was a big part of the Suns success...but he was a big that played like a small. I think its important for a Center/Powerforward to be a good rebounder or defender...or both. Amare was neither.


Far as his scoring and getting double-teamed....I submit to you that Amares scoring isnt as relevant on a team loaded full of shooters. Scoring has never really been a problem for the Suns. By contrast, in New York Stoudemires scoring will be of more importance because he wont be surrounded by the kind of weapons the Suns have.


Yeah Amare draws double teams...but did Amare and the Suns really capitalize on that? Many times doubles on Amare resulted in turnovers...For his playoffs (and career) Amare had two turnovers for every assist...and he's only averaged one assist per game. His low assist numbers tend to suggest teammates arnt capitalizing on his doubles like they should.


I dont think Amare will do well in NY. In many ways the Suns helped Amare as much as Amare helped the Suns...He's in for a rude awakening.

 

[Covert Rain]

I'm not "acting" llike anything. Of course he was a big part of the Suns success...but he was a big that played like a small. I think its important for a Center/Powerforward to be a good rebounder or defender...or both. Amare was neither.

Amare should have been better on the other end. I have said so many times before. However, he played HUGE on the offensive end. The majority of the bigs in the league simply can't guard him. I criticize Amare where he needs to be but I also give him credit where he deserves it as well. Amare night in and night out made other elite PF in this league look like they were playing small on the defensive end.

Far as his scoring and getting double-teamed....I submit to you that Amares scoring isnt as relevant on a team loaded full of shooters. Scoring has never really been a problem for the Suns. By contrast, in New York Stoudemires scoring will be of more importance because he wont be surrounded by the kind of weapons the Suns have.

And...I submit to you...that is ridiculous. Amare getting double teamed and drawing so much attention takes the pressure off of your outside shooters. When you have to have guys cheating in the lane or collapsing to cover pick and rolls....it creates a ton of opportunities for your shooters.

Yeah Amare draws double teams...but did Amare and the Suns really capitalize on that? Many times doubles on Amare resulted in turnovers...For his playoffs (and career) Amare had two turnovers for every assist...and he's only averaged one assist per game. His low assist numbers tend to suggest teammates arnt capitalizing on his doubles like they should.

Hell yes they did and the stats back it up. Without a scoring presence like Amare from your bigs, teams would just stay at home all day long on your shooters. Amare getting doubled means that shooters were open. Considering that since Amare got here the Suns have been one of the best outside shooting teams in history....well....it speaks for itself. It wasn't all Amare but it sure as hell helps when you have a big that gets double teamed on a regular basis.

Also, the Suns were great about multiple passes or getting it "around the horn" to the open shooter. That happened to many times to count. Just because the first guy who Amare passed out to doesn't take the shot doesn't mean that him getting double teamed to begin with didn't create the opportunity to begin with.

I dont think Amare will do well in NY. In many ways the Suns helped Amare as much as Amare helped the Suns...He's in for a rude awakening.

If Amare doesn't do well in New York it's because teams are going to double team him and NY doesn't have the shooters to capitalize. Amare isn't all the sudden going to become an average PF.

 

[pokerface]

Amare should have been better on the other end. I have said so many times before. However, he played HUGE on the offensive end. The majority of the bigs in the league simply can't guard him. I criticize Amare where he needs to be but I also give him credit where he deserves it as well. Amare night in and night out made other elite PF in this league look like they were playing small on the defensive end.

Well who said Amare wasn't great on offense? I think your overall point is Amare was so good offensively that we should overlook his other deficiencies...Otherwise you wouldnt be bringing up he offense everytime I bring up his defense/rebounding etc etc. I say our "bigs" need to play like bigs...especially when max contracts are involved.

Yeah, other "elite"" PF's couldnt guard Amare...but then again who was he shutting down? Can he defend anybody??

And...I submit to you...that is ridiculous. Amare getting double teamed and drawing so much attention takes the pressure off of your outside shooters. When you have to have guys cheating in the lane or collapsing to cover pick and rolls....it creates a ton of opportunities for your shooters.

Yes double teams on Amare helped the Suns...Who said it didnt? My point was many doubles on Amare resulted in turnovers as well. Also, Amare didnt get many assists off being doubled. Tim Duncan has double the assists over Amare...and less turnovers (especailly in the playoffs)

Hell yes they did and the stats back it up. Without a scoring presence like Amare from your bigs, teams would just stay at home all day long on your shooters. Amare getting doubled means that shooters were open. Considering that since Amare got here the Suns have been one of the best outside shooting teams in history....well....it speaks for itself. It wasn't all Amare but it sure as hell helps when you have a big that gets double teamed on a regular basis.

What stats are you talking about? You didnt provide any. I've given you a stat...Amare averaged one assist per game for his career and playoffs. Thats pathetic especially when you consider the numerous quality shooters Amare could pass to over the years.

Also, the Suns were great about multiple passes or getting it "around the horn" to the open shooter. That happened to many times to count. Just because the first guy who Amare passed out to doesn't take the shot doesn't mean that him getting double teamed to begin with didn't create the opportunity to begin with.

Yeah but why wern't the guys Amare passed to getting more open looks? Why did most the time it require more passing? Duncan found guys cutting to the basket all the time...He finds players in their groove.

If Amare doesn't do well in New York it's because teams are going to double team him and NY doesn't have the shooters to capitalize. Amare isn't all the sudden going to become an average PF.

Yeah he won't become an average PF in NY...He'll stay below average in rebounding, defense, and passing. His ppg will stay above average but his fg% will become average.

 

[Covert Rain]

Well who said Amare wasn't great on offense? I think your overall point is Amare was so good offensively that we should overlook his other deficiencies...Otherwise you wouldnt be bringing up he offense everytime I bring up his defense/rebounding etc etc. I say our "bigs" need to play like bigs...especially when max contracts are involved.

Yeah, other "elite"" PF's couldnt guard Amare...but then again who was he shutting down? Can he defend anybody??

What are you talking about? My overall point was nothing of the sort. You made a stupid comment about Amare not stepping it up and pointed to his rebounding. You were the one pointing to one particular point of his game. Also.....if you read my post again I did acknowledge his shortcomings on the other end. Not to mention have posted several times about them on this very board.

Yes double teams on Amare helped the Suns...Who said it didnt? My point was many doubles on Amare resulted in turnovers as well. Also, Amare didnt get many assists off being doubled. Tim Duncan has double the assists over Amare...and less turnovers (especailly in the playoffs)

How often did Amare's double teams result in turnovers versus points? Amare would often go for 20+ points with a few turnovers a game. It's not like it was the other way around. Hell Nash led the league for most of the season in turnovers from the PG position but the net result was he on most nights still had a net result for the team either by his assists or scoring.

What stats are you talking about? You didnt provide any. I've given you a stat...Amare averaged one assist per game for his career and playoffs. Thats pathetic especially when you consider the numerous quality shooters Amare could pass to over the years.

I have posted more stats on this board then you can shake a stick at. You know exactly what I am talking about. Amare stats backup my point which was Amare was an offensive force in this league and deserves more credit then you are giving him when it comes to the success this team had had since while he was a Sun. I wasn't aware that I had to post a stat to back up something that everyone already knows about Amare. We all know the areas he was good and the ones that he wasn't.

Yeah but why wern't the guys Amare passed to getting more open looks? Why did most the time it require more passing? Duncan found guys cutting to the basket all the time...He finds players in their groove.

First off Amare's role on this team was to score not to pass. That was Steve's job. Steve was the distributor. Amare's primary role was to score on this team. When your team leads the league in assists per game with a guy like Steve already on your team.....you expect Amare to be leader among PF in assists?!?!!? Really? The Spurs didn't have anybody on that team that distributes the ball or handles as much as Nash. Therefore, it creates a ton more opportunities for other players. I am not saying that Amare would ever be a good distributor but can't say that for certain either that he couldn't have been a little better on a different team. His job was to put the basket in the hoop and get to the line with the Suns.

Yeah he won't become an average PF in NY...He'll stay below average in rebounding, defense, and passing. His ppg will stay above average but his fg% will become average.

If Amare continues to be a 20+ PPG scorer his FG% will remain healthy. Amare still has a great 18 footer and most bigs are still not going to be able to stop him. That will result in alot of high percentage shots unless D'Antoni turns him into a jump shooter. If he continues to get to the free throw line, he will continue to dominate others at that position. If Amare keeps up his pace he could go down as one of the best offensive PF's ever.

Just so we are clear and don't have to keep going back and forth. My point is this. Amare may not have stepped it up in areas where he has always been weak in his game but to make a general comment about him not stepping it up in the playoffs isn't accurate. Year after year, Amare has been more consistent offensively then most players we have had on this team. He has had his ups and downs but aside from Nash, he over the years was one of our most dependable offensive players. I would hardly call that not "stepping it up". He just simply never turned into the complete player we had all hoped he would become.

 

[pokerface]

Just so we are clear and don't have to keep going back and forth. My point is this. Amare may not have stepped it up in areas where he has always been weak in his game but to make a general comment about him not stepping it up in the playoffs isn't accurate. Year after year, Amare has been more consistent offensively then most players we have had on this team. He has had his ups and downs but aside from Nash, he over the years was one of our most dependable offensive players. I would hardly call that not "stepping it up". He just simply never turned into the complete player we had all hoped he would become.

See it always goes back to that doesnt it?...offense...offense...There is nothing else to talk about when it comes to Amare. I know you are enamored by his scoring but you shouldnt let it blind you...you only casually mention his weaknesses while you constantly emphasize his scoring. I will say this, when a powerforward/center slacks on defense/rebounding its hurts a team far more than if a guy playing another position does it. The bigs are your anchors...especially defensively. If defense wins championships that doesnt bode well for Amare. Plus I dont think its insignificant when Amare averages 6.6 rebounds for an entire post season...Thats ludicrous by anyones standards. It IS an example of him not stepping up....so is his pourous defense.

About his scoring...While I would never say he isnt a great scorer his points have been inflated somewhat due to Nash and playing alongside other scoring threats. While teams doubled Amare (not alyways though) they couldn't give Amare too much attention out of fear of being burned by our other scorers. Now with Amare in NY I see much more of a uphill battle for him to keep up his ppg. It will be easy for teams to zero in on him now defensively. No more pick and rolls with Nash and no more teams worried about outside shooting by other players. Amare is going to have to really earn it now.

 

[mojorizen7]

Don't care.

 

[Covert Rain]

See it always goes back to that doesnt it?...offense...offense...There is nothing else to talk about when it comes to Amare. I know you are enamored by his scoring but you shouldnt let it blind you...you only casually mention his weaknesses while you constantly emphasize his scoring. I will say this, when a powerforward/center slacks on defense/rebounding its hurts a team far more than if a guy playing another position does it. The bigs are your anchors...especially defensively. If defense wins championships that doesnt bode well for Amare. Plus I dont think its insignificant when Amare averages 6.6 rebounds for an entire post season...Thats ludicrous by anyones standards. It IS an example of him not stepping up....so is his pourous defense.

About his scoring...While I would never say he isnt a great scorer his points have been inflated somewhat due to Nash and playing alongside other scoring threats. While teams doubled Amare (not alyways though) they couldn't give Amare too much attention out of fear of being burned by our other scorers. Now with Amare in NY I see much more of a uphill battle for him to keep up his ppg. It will be easy for teams to zero in on him now defensively. No more pick and rolls with Nash and no more teams worried about outside shooting by other players. Amare is going to have to really earn it now.

I am not sure you comprehend English but if you paid attention to half the posts I have made about Amare you would know I am hardly blind. Believe what you want.

 

[TucsonDevil]

I wish him well; he wants to be a productive member in society, not just a basketball player. For that alone I wish him well.

 

[KloD]

If they aren't playing for the Suns, they are an enemy and I wish them nothing but a healthy ass kicking when Phoenix comes calling.

 

[jagu]

Least give a crap about Amare. I'll miss some of his game but we weren't going to win a championship with him here. He talks the talk but can't walk the walk. Glad the Suns didn't pay him that much money as well. Be gone Amare and I hope we kick the scrubby Knicks all over the floor this year!

 

[pokerface]

I am not sure you comprehend English but if you paid attention to half the posts I have made about Amare you would know I am hardly blind. Believe what you want.

I agree you arn't blind...You just wear rose colored glasses when it comes to Amare. As long as he's scoring his other weaknesses don't seem to bother you. I on the other hand feel we cant afford to have bigs that dont rebound or defend at decent levels.

 

[pokerface]

Least give a crap about Amare. I'll miss some of his game but we weren't going to win a championship with him here. He talks the talk but can't walk the walk. Glad the Suns didn't pay him that much money as well. Be gone Amare and I hope we kick the scrubby Knicks all over the floor this year!

 

[Covert Rain]

I agree you arn't blind...You just wear rose colored glasses when it comes to Amare. As long as he's scoring his other weaknesses don't seem to bother you. I on the other hand feel we cant afford to have bigs that dont rebound or defend at decent levels.

Thanks for confirming your comprehension level.

 

[pokerface]

Thanks for confirming your comprehension level.

Thank you for maintaining your classy ways