Are big name FA's worth the big money?

[Toro]

Most highly sought FA never live up to their hype. Ed Hartwell was a highly sought FA several years ago. He was released last week. E. James was a big name and made little differece for the Cards.

I think the Cards should let the first big wave of free agency go by and then go get a handful of mid-range guys for depth

 

[phillycard]

I think the odds are about even. Many times these cats are getting huge deals based on name alone. The boost to the ticket/jersey sales always helps but I don't know if Nate Clements is THAT damn good. Adaleius Thomas I think was worth it, but so many guys are the beneficiaries of teams with itchy trigger fingers.

 

[football karma]

Here is the dilemna --

and I will quote the late George Young, courtesy of Peter King's column this morning: "hungry players are better players"

I think part of the problem with the Cardinals signing big dollar free agents (and you can throw another six or seven teams in this boat) is this:

If to sign the player to a team that hasnt won, you have to pay a risk premium to that player (i.e. overpay him) -- you clearly are getting a player that plays for the money. When they get that money, do they put out the same 100% that earned them that big contract? Do they back it off to 95% (without even consciously doing it) because they think that by getting a big contract, they are now big time? With a huge signing bonus in the bank, do they "retire" by backing effort off to 90%? Does that lower effort result in a player that isnt quite as good as the one the team thought it was signing?

Cardinals or no, history suggests that a majority of players signed to "big" contracts never match the performance that got them that contract.

I dont know what the right answer is. I have always agreed with Denny's approach to free agency -- trying to find players that still felt they had something to prove, or had a chip on their shoulder.

 

[Zeno]

Depends on those players ages and whether they fit a particular need or not. Hard to answer yes or no to this one.

 

[MadCardDisease]

The 49ers just spent 1/10 of their cap on a CB. Clements is good but unless they can generate a pass rush that money will be wasted.

With the prices that some of the offensive guards got this offseason it just shows how important the draft has become. Teams can typically find quality guards outside of the first round for a fraction of the price that the top 2 guards made in FA this year. Case in point, I'm guessing that Duece's salary for the year will be about what Steinback make in three games. Is Steinback worth that much more than Duece? Lunacy I tell you!

Going after the big names in FA is very risky these days. Especially if you are more than a few players away from being a great team. The draft is they way you truely should build your team.

 

[lobo]

Here is the dilemna --



Cardinals or no, history suggests that a majority of players signed to "big" contracts never match the performance that got them that contract.

I dont know what the right answer is. I have always agreed with Denny's approach to free agency -- trying to find players that still felt they had something to prove, or had a chip on their shoulder.

If DG said that I certainly agree with him. There was an interesting story about F/A in today's Chicago Tribune echos what many of us have said. They went through the top 20 f/a of last year and detailed the contribution each made. It might surprise some of us (you) the results that were disclosed.

As I said, it just is not a panacea. Are there exceptions, yes a few. Let's see how the hand is played out at the end of f/a and how we do in the draft.

 

[Toro]

The 49ers just spent 1/10 of their cap on a CB. Clements is good but unless they can generate a pass rush that money will be wasted.

With the prices that some of the offensive guards got this offseason it just shows how important the draft has become. Teams can typically find quality guards outside of the first round for a fraction of the price that the top 2 guards made in FA this year. Case in point, I'm guessing that Duece's salary for the year will be about what Steinback make in three games. Is Steinback worth that much more than Duece? Lunacy I tell you!

Going after the big names in FA is very risky these days. Especially if you are more than a few players away from being a great team. The draft is they way you truely should build your team.

They spend more than 1/10 of their cap on Clements.

 

[dreamcastrocks]

After viewing the poll, doesn't anyone think that the Edge signing was worth the money?

Whats wrong with you people???

 

[joeshmo]

Depends on those players ages and whether they fit a particular need or not. Hard to answer yes or no to this one.

Yep. You need a "Maybe" option up there.

Would I have paid Clements the 7.25 Mill a year he will be getting for the first 6 years of his deal he signed with SF, I would pay him 8 Mill if given the chance.

Would I have paid what Dockery will be getting heck no. And that is actually the only contract so far that has been surprising to me.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Yep. You need a "Maybe" option up there.

Would I have paid Clements the 7.25 Mill a year he will be getting for the first 6 years of his deal he signed with SF, I would pay him 8 Mill if given the chance.

Would I have paid what Dockery will be getting heck no. And that is actually the only contract so far that has been surprising to me.

The problem with Clements contract is the garenteed money all $23 million of it. If he goes down with a major injury the 49ers are screwed. Plus if the 49ers can't fix thier pass rush he won't do them any good either. I personally would have added a big name pass rusher before adding a CB if I were the 49ers.

 

[Jim_Hart]

Statistics have shown that only 1 in 7 free agents are starting for their new team after 3 years. Of course there are many variables that play into that fraction (free agents signed as backups, retirement, injuries, etc.) but it does point out to an extent that even though there are exceptions to the rule (Brees, Delhomme, Priest, etc.) most free agents are not worth the money they command.

 

[D-Dogg]

I would vote "it depends."

For all the bust signings, there are great ones as well.

 

[joeshmo]

The problem with Clements contract is the garenteed money all $23 million of it. If he goes down with a major injury the 49ers are screwed. Plus if the 49ers can't fix thier pass rush he won't do them any good either. I personally would have added a big name pass rusher before adding a CB if I were the 49ers.

23 Mill gauranteed does not mean he will get all 23 Mill once he signs on the dotted line. It only means that 23 mill of the deal is bonuses. A lot of that 23 Mill wont kick in until the end of the deal and only if he is still on the team getting a roster bonus. So the 49ers are not screwed if he goes down, and they still have pelenty of cap space. I have seen the contract details and it is essentially a 6 year deal at 7.25 Mill a year. With big bonuses due in the 7th and 8th year of the deal if he is still on the team(part of it being in the 23 Mill amount the media is giving out). Clements will never see the full 23 Mill.

Let me put these new contracts in perspective for all of you. In just 2 years the cap has gone up 27.5%. It will go up another 6% or more next year. Why is everyone so surprises about these deals being handed out.

 

[TheCardFan]

Yes...if you have the supporting cast to compliment them

Example: Edge with no line vs Edge with a good line.

 

[joeshmo]

Statistics have shown that only 1 in 7 free agents are starting for their new team after 3 years. Of course there are many variables that play into that fraction (free agents signed as backups, retirement, injuries, etc.) but it does point out to an extent that even though there are exceptions to the rule (Brees, Delhomme, Priest, etc.) most free agents are not worth the money they command.

How many of those 1 out of 7 free agents only signed a 3 years or less deal in the first place,,to go along with, free agents signed as backups, retirement, injuries, etc

 

[Jim_Hart]

How many of those 1 out of 7 free agents only signed a 3 years or less deal in the first place,,to go along with, free agents signed as backups, retirement, injuries, etc

Absolutely true. However if those players were integral contributors to their new team for those 3 years ... much of the time I would suspect they would be resigned after or before the contract expired. All the variables you and I have mentioned certainly play into the equation ... but the numbers still show that monster contract free agents are a quantifiable risk.

 

[cardsfanmd]

The 49ers just spent 1/10 of their cap on a CB. Clements is good but unless they can generate a pass rush that money will be wasted.

With the prices that some of the offensive guards got this offseason it just shows how important the draft has become. Teams can typically find quality guards outside of the first round for a fraction of the price that the top 2 guards made in FA this year. Case in point, I'm guessing that Duece's salary for the year will be about what Steinback make in three games. Is Steinback worth that much more than Duece? Lunacy I tell you!

Going after the big names in FA is very risky these days. Especially if you are more than a few players away from being a great team. The draft is they way you truely should build your team.

Exactly.

 

[MadCardDisease]

23 Mill gauranteed does not mean he will get all 23 Mill once he signs on the dotted line. It only means that 23 mill of the deal is bonuses. A lot of that 23 Mill wont kick in until the end of the deal and only if he is still on the team getting a roster bonus. So the 49ers are not screwed if he goes down, and they still have pelenty of cap space. I have seen the contract details and it is essentially a 6 year deal at 7.25 Mill a year. With big bonuses due in the 7th and 8th year of the deal if he is still on the team(part of it being in the 23 Mill amount the media is giving out). Clements will never see the full 23 Mill.

Let me put these new contracts in perspective for all of you. In just 2 years the cap has gone up 27.5%. It will go up another 6% or more next year. Why is everyone so surprises about these deals being handed out.

I thought that $23 million garenteed meant that he was Garenteed that money no matter what happened. I realize that he won't get it all at once but if he has a career ending injury isn't he garenteed to get that money?

 

[AntSports Steve]

The 49ers just spent 1/10 of their cap on a CB.

I think not. $7.25M for the first 6 years or so. Let's do the math:

7.25 / 109 = 6.65% And that's just this year. In 2009 (2 years) the cap will be around $122M. 7.25 / 122 = 5.9% In 2010, you could have all 22 of your starters getting that and still not be over the cap. That's only 3 years from now.

So, I don't think that contract is so bad.

Free Agency is just another tool to get players. Some big name players fit. Some do not. Berry sure helped the Cards his first year.

 

[Jim_Hart]

I thought that $23 million garenteed meant that he was Garenteed that money no matter what happened. I realize that he won't get it all at once but if he has a career ending injury isn't he garenteed to get that money?

Yes. All signing bonus money is guaranteed. It is spread out over the length of the contract for salary cap purposes ... but the player receives all the signing bonus up front. If the team releases or trades the player before the contract is over then they must absorb a cap hit as the balance of the prorated bonus will be applied to their current salary cap.

 

[lobo]

After viewing the poll, doesn't anyone think that the Edge signing was worth the money?

Whats wrong with you people???

I viewed this as a generlly speaking type question. I couldn't be happier with the signing of James. Once we are truly satisfied with the OL, his performance will get even better. I believe he has a whole lot more runs in him.

 

[MadCardDisease]

Free Agency is just another tool to get players. Some big name players fit. Some do not. Berry sure helped the Cards his first year.

I agree. However in Berry's case he wasn't a "Big Name" guy and compared to other DEs he signed a fairly reasonable contract. That's exactly the same thing that the Cardinals are trying to do agian this year. They are going after lesser name guys and not spending big money on Names.

 

[joeshmo]

Yes. All signing bonus money is guaranteed. It is spread out over the length of the contract for salary cap purposes ... but the player receives all the signing bonus up front. If the team releases or trades the player before the contract is over then they must absorb a cap hit as the balance of the prorated bonus will be applied to their current salary cap.

Signing bonuses can only be spread out over a max of 5 years according to the new CBA.

 

[joeshmo]

I thought that $23 million garenteed meant that he was Garenteed that money no matter what happened. I realize that he won't get it all at once but if he has a career ending injury isn't he garenteed to get that money?

No, no, no.

23 Million gauranteed in media speak means signing bonus and all other bonuses. And not all bonuses are "Gauranteed". Roster bonuses are only gauranteed if you are on the roster after a specified date.

For example, lets take the 23 Mill amount given to Clements. And this is just an example, I dont have the exact amounts as of yet.

13 Mill of that 23 Mill is a signing bonus and he will get that the day he puts his name on the dotted line. Now that 13 Mill will be spread out over a 5 year period for cap purposes. Now there is a 5 Mill roster bonus for the 7th year of the deal, and 5 Mill roster bonus for the 8th year of the deal. If Clements is off the team or injured anytime during that 6 year time span before the roster bonuses kick in the 7th and 8th year the Niners are only on the hook for the 13 Mill signing bonus and are not on the hook for the remaining 10 Mill due in roster bonuses becuase he was cut. If he makes the team for his 7th year but gets cut before his 8th year the Niners are only on the hook for 18 Mill. If he is on the team all 8 years then he would have been paid the full 23 Mill.

So when ever you see the media give out a 23Million gauranteed for a total of 80 Million, remember one thing, those are only total amounts if the player meets all every single requirement, it is not what the player will actually get.

 

[JeffGollin]

Are big name FA's worth the money and live up to the hype?
Some are. Many aren't.

So what?

The question that begs answering is: "What would happen if a team opted out of signing free agents altogether?

Logical answer would be: "They'd either (a) see their roster depleted as some of their own FA's flew the coop and weren't replaced,and have to rely on draft choices and UDFA's to restock their rosters or (b) just hope they could re-sign everyone so that -if it were a mediocre team - it would remain mediocre.

My point - regardless of whether or not FA money is getting out of hand, free agency is a fact of life; and either a team has to face the realities and at least do a balancing act of paying "enough" but not "too much" to bring in some FA talent or risk remaining marginal forever.