Are The Mannings Above The Law?

[Lorenzo]

I wasn't putting them in the same class. I was saying that is easy to overlook things you don't like about a player when that player is good and playing for your team.

I got you, and I agree with that. In retrospect I really wish Jerry Jones wouldn't have brought a clone of himself to play for the cowboys. although owens obviously could have used Jones' financial advice.

and jerry is kind of the same way for me. I really dislike him, but at the same time I don't know that the cowboys would have won superbowls without him in the 90s. He and jimmy brought a much needed rebirth to the cowboys. I just hope that he can do it again by backing off...

 

[JAB]

"unwritten" successorship could transfer to the Mannings through Archie and Cooper" is the key point.

I have been around the corporate world long enough to have seen many off the books transaction in private companies where there is no wake left. However it is justified and however wrong, it happens and Adams is exactly the kind of guy that flips off the world to do them. As for the employee part, both Cooper and Archie are as qualified as Matt Millen and many other front office types are. Cooper is as much a winner as his brothers.

The NFL doesn't have the autority, motivation or resources to delve into every non football related transaction an owner makes and would be no more sucessful then the IRS are at tracking down these guys. How do you think it is that billionares can pay marginal tax rates that are a fraction of the rest of us? Thats why they are billionares.

This is not the corporate world, and the NFL not only has the authority they already have a set of rules in place in case it happens. They covered this on the NFL network after Tennessee made the statement of signing him for life. Just ask Dallas and Washington how circumventing the collective bargaining agreement worked for them. You are in an elite group with other billionaires in a highly competitive market that Keep and eye on one another. They discussed this contract for life statement and what could be done about it on NFL network at great length. They brought up the rules in place, and it's not as easy as you make it sound. I can assure you the other 31 teams will be paying close attention to his signingn not only after he signed but after he retires if it is Tennessee. They will make sure there wasn't any backhanded closed-door agreement. It's one thing for a private organization it's another thing to cover up something of this high of a profile situation that would set a precedent that there's no way the NFL will allow. You can bet, everyone is paying attention after he made that statement. They covered family members of active players, and there are a lot of legal and cap ramifications for trying to circumvent the rules the NFL already has. As I stated they have the power and the rules to put Tennessee back into the Stone Age. And there's no way, especially with this NFL administration they're going to be able to get away with it. This Commissioner is more like a King , and he loves to prove it. You really need to read up on the rules that cover this situations you're talking about it would definitely shed some light on the subject, and at least give you a second thought on your opinion.

 

[JAB]

Edit Add:

As far as taxes go the Rich may not pay the same portion of their earnings as everyone else but they still pay the majority of our tax burden. That's not shocking when you consider it's their money that gets the president, Congress and Senators elected. Why do you think they get what they want. This is a completely different situation and your tax analogy simply doesn't apply. Now a more accurate political comparison would be how the Democrats and the Republicans keep an eye on one another to make sure they're not break in the rules to get their party elected. Every time they find a loophole the other party closes it. Only in this case the NFL has already closed your loophole and the rest of the teams just like each political party will not sit back and let the Titans pull one over on the rest of the league. Even if by some chance they would the current commissioner has zero tolerance as I stated and his not going to just let it go. You can't come out and make a public statement like he made and expect to get away with it.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

As far as taxes go the Rich may not pay the same portion of their earnings as everyone else but they still pay the majority of our tax burden.

They do not. It's the broad middle class that pays the most tax in total, not percentage.

 

[JeffGollin]

And I ask where were your hate posts for the Manning family prior to Friday, or this week, or this month? You can hate who you want--hate on man, more power to you...

You put words in my mouth. There is a difference between not respecting someone and "hating them."

My original comment was not about the Manning family at all, but about my distaste for heavy hitters in general known to throw their weight around (including Bud Adams, the Denver contingent, Jerry Jones & George Steinbrenner). My subsequent responses stemmed from Lorenzo's general comment that: "If you've earned success on the playing field, you have the right to act like a privileged person." I had a problem with that, but in general terms, and not specifically about the Manning clan.

For what it's worth, my original impression of the Mannings was basically positive. My current impression of the Mannings based on their most recent behavior is that "they are what they are"; and not to expect them to act as straight-up or honorable as I might have originally expected.

What Darkside and Lorenzo don't know about me is that I really don't believe in judging or labeling people (there but for the grace of God go I). Instead, I'd prefer to evaluate their behavior and use it to determine what to expect from them in the future.

I don't like the way the Mannings are handling this. That doesn't mean I hate them or anyone else. But it does mean I'd be inclined to keep my pants tightly buttoned if I had to deal with them in the future.

PS Thanks, Jersey Girl for having my back.

 

[oaken1]

I kinda like Peyton......Eli however, I would not even piss on if he were on fire... respect? Class?? Gimme a ****in break.....

Getting drafted in to the NFL is a privilege, not a right,...to come out and leverage that process, which is designed to provide league equality...IMO is a very classless act, and SHOULD be criminal as far as the league is concerned...... IMO anyone who attempts such should be banned from the draft, or at least the first three rounds...thereby losing the financial compensation included with such...............let them sign as UDRFA or settle for a base minimum contract.

 

[Reddog]

This is not the corporate world, and the NFL not only has the authority they already have a set of rules in place in case it happens.

You really need to read up on the rules that cover this situations you're talking about it would definitely shed some light on the subject, and at least give you a second thought on your opinion.

This is the corporate world in that these owners operate in two orbits of regulation. One that includes league oversight and one that doesn't. Both include oversight by the Federal Government. You are naive to believe that there is no way Bud Adam's trust could sell his franchise after his death to an investment group made up of retired Manning’s and that here couldn't be some unwritten agreement that put them in first position for such a deal or even provided them some advantages over others.

I will give you the fact that Adam's just made the possibility way more challenging with his foolish "contract for life" statement, but if a second Manning played for the team and there was a Manning legacy associated with the Oilers/Titans team and the surface deal points all were clean there is no way the NFL could stop the deal.

And there are many ways Adam’s could bury a subsidy in various arms length transactions where valuations are just a little higher or lower than they might be otherwise. This happens every day. You can justify valuations on a land deal in this economy where the holder is happy to liquidate. There are start-ups that are funded under onerous terms like unachievable ratchets where the investor gets unfair chunks of equity when the firm missed early goals. It goes on and on and if they chose these deals and their investors can be insulated through all kinds of vehicles. Do I think it’s going to happen? Probably not. Can it happen in this situation? Hell yes.

 

[JAB]

As far as taxes go the Rich may not pay the same portion of their earnings as everyone else but they still pay the majority of our tax burden.

They do not. It's the broad middle class that pays the most tax in total, not percentage.

I was not referring to their tax bracket percentage but the amount of money they pay compared to the amount of money they have. And the rich do pay more money in taxes to the federal government than the middle class as a group.

The top 5 percent pay well over half the income taxes.

The latest data show that a big portion of the federal income tax burden is shoul­dered by a small group of the very richest Americans.

http://www.american.com/archive/200...zine-contents/guess-who-really-pays-the-taxes

The top 25% pay the majority of taxes.


Anyways, back on topic. I find it hard to believe that a group of businesses that’s regulated and tied in together by one commissioner is simply going to turn a blind eye to the team that acquires Manning if they hire and pay a relative big money for a job that wasn't even interviewed for prior to being signed. Or sell shares of the team at a discounted price no one is that dumb they might as ell turn themselves in. They will also after making that public statement will hold them accountable for any investments after his retirement. There will definitely be an inquiry to make sure there was no deal done while he was an active player. It will be very hard for Tennesse to disprove it in this case after making their public statement. I seriously doubt the Manning family is going to put themselves in that situation after Tennessee, basically broadcast it to the world. Keep in mind the NFL already has rules in place in case a team trys somthing like this.

 

[Lorenzo]

You put words in my mouth. There is a difference between not respecting someone and "hating them."

My original comment was not about the Manning family at all, but about my distaste for heavy hitters in general known to throw their weight around (including Bud Adams, the Denver contingent, Jerry Jones & George Steinbrenner). My subsequent responses stemmed from Lorenzo's general comment that: "If you've earned success on the playing field, you have the right to act like a privileged person." I had a problem with that, but in general terms, and not specifically about the Manning clan.

For what it's worth, my original impression of the Mannings was basically positive. My current impression of the Mannings based on their most recent behavior is that "they are what they are"; and not to expect them to act as straight-up or honorable as I might have originally expected.

What Darkside and Lorenzo don't know about me is that I really don't believe in judging or labeling people (there but for the grace of God go I). Instead, I'd prefer to evaluate their behavior and use it to determine what to expect from them in the future.

I don't like the way the Mannings are handling this. That doesn't mean I hate them or anyone else. But it does mean I'd be inclined to keep my pants tightly buttoned if I had to deal with them in the future.

PS Thanks, Jersey Girl for having my back.

I respect that Jeff. and my comment about success and earning it on the field in that post was meant to be exclusively for the mannings and this situation for peyton manning specifically since that is what has started this whole discussion....(not a blanket statement for everyone else because we aren't really talking about those other people on these threads right now). In spite of the riches and wealth that they have earned, it is well established that bud adams and jerry jones/steinbruenner etc are not liked nationally. and I agree with you about them.

i think the manning's have handled themselves well on and off the field. They seem like good guys, but yeah they are probably "elite" type guys off the field. A lot of professional players have that elite type "above the law" type attitude if you will. and my comment in defending the manning's is that they have handled themselves well on and off the field and have remained professional. While many other players who are great on the field, and have that same elitist attitude, don't handle themeselves like a professional off the (or in some cases even on the field of play). So it is my opinion that peyton manning has earned the right to be where he is now. And the truth is that we see this same scenario with free agents and recruiting every year, but this is only different because it is peyton manning and the cardinals had a real shot at him. I think it is emotional when you add the fact that many fans here were hoping for several months that peyton would sign here and when he didn't people were upset about it. If the cardinals were not in the peyton manning race sure there would be some people that would be talking about this and saying that peyton is acting like he is above the system. But for the most part most of us would not have a problem with it.

I don't have any problem with your opinion and I appreciate the conversation.

 

[Lorenzo]

I kinda like Peyton......Eli however, I would not even piss on if he were on fire... respect? Class?? Gimme a ****in break.....

Getting drafted in to the NFL is a privilege, not a right,...to come out and leverage that process, which is designed to provide league equality...IMO is a very classless act, and SHOULD be criminal as far as the league is concerned...... IMO anyone who attempts such should be banned from the draft, or at least the first three rounds...thereby losing the financial compensation included with such...............let them sign as UDRFA or settle for a base minimum contract.

SD traded him right? and SD got phillip rivers that year too right?

 

[Reddog]

I seriously doubt the Manning family is going to put themselves in that situation after Tennessee, basically broadcast it to the world. Keep in mind the NFL already has rules in place in case a team trys somthing like this.

Agree 100%. Bud Adams is brash enough to try regardless of the scrutiny and even if there was a way to execute it, I don't view the Manning’s as the type to break the law or risk the stress of having to cover something up. I see them as the types that will understand all options and to leverage their position for the best result for them. They may test "perceived" ethics (Eli draft) but ultimately they are way too smart and conscious of their brand.

 

[Lorenzo]

Agree 100%. Bud Adams is brash enough to try regardless of the scrutiny and even if there was a way to execute it, I don't view the Manning’s as the type to break the law or risk the stress of having to cover something up. I see them as the types that will understand all options and to leverage their position for the best result for them. They may test "perceived" ethics (Eli draft) but ultimately they are way too smart and conscious of their brand.

I'm not responding to you in particular, but is it just me or are people overblowing the contract for life thing? Munchak has been in that organization on and off for like almost 30 years now. i think that adams is a loyal guy to his own guys(like most owners are) and just wants peyton to know that he will be wanted well after he plays. but with the other teams competing feelings got hurt and people are making this a big deal.

the irony is that peyton might want to go back to the colts or move back home to the new orleans area when he is done. or who knows maybe he wants to do something completely different when he retires. that and bud adams is 89. someone said here(which was funny) that it would be a contract for life because adams will likely be gone by the time peyton is done playing.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I said "check the small print, Peyton, they're talking about Bud's life".

 

[JAB]

This is the corporate world in that these owners operate in two orbits of regulation. One that includes league oversight and one that doesn't. Both include oversight by the Federal Government. You are naive to believe that there is no way Bud Adam's trust could sell his franchise after his death to an investment group made up of retired Manning’s and that here couldn't be some unwritten agreement that put them in first position for such a deal or even provided them some advantages over others.

So you're comparing the corporate business world as equivalent to the NFL. Obviously, they're both corporate in the sense that their businesses, but unlike the NFL they're not part of a group that is regulated by a single commissioner with a set group of rules and regulations and penalties they must all follow equally. I don't believe it's naïve to have the opinion that they won't get away with it. I'm not saying they won't try, organizations have tried for years. I'm simply stating the fact that the NFL has already thought this through and have rules in place in case someone tries it. It's naïve to think after announcing it to the world they would get away with it. This isn't an open business market. It's a league with a governing body that every business has too adhered to. You make it sound like Wal-Mart, Best Buy, Home Depot, and Target or joined under one of affiliate with one CEO that regulates them equally. It goes past federal laws to internal laws that they’re bound by being a member of a single organization known as the NFL. You also have to remember that NFL owners have to vote on all ownership of any franchise. They’re not going to sit back and let an investment shell company owned by the Manning family by the Tennessee Titans at under market value. The scenarios of cheating you are suggesting is just too conspiracy theory outrageous IMO to happen. Do you really believe if that was the happen the other 31 teams wont take a very close look at the sale of shares of the Tennessee or any thing they try?

 

[Lorenzo]

Well maybe shoney's will ban roger goodell from their establishments while peyton signs his contract for life in secret eating his free pancakes.

that was sarcasm by the way.

 

[oaken1]

SD traded him right? and SD got phillip rivers that year too right?

The Chargers made out like bandits on the whole thing, and IMHO still came away with the best QB in that draft...

my issue is on the principal that an individual or family feels they do not have to abide by the rules as they are set forth...if such actions were seen as normal, and accepted, the Cardinals may never get another first round draft pick again.

 

[Lorenzo]

The Chargers made out like bandits on the whole thing, and IMHO still came away with the best QB in that draft...

my issue is on the principal that an individual or family feels they do not have to abide by the rules as they are set forth...if such actions were seen as normal, and accepted, the Cardinals may never get another first round draft pick again.

that's why I don't think you can make such a big deal about the whole thing. In the end the chargers got their QB and so did the giants. i don't think eli's actions were the norm because you don't see draft day trades like that every year. and I don't know if eli was wrong or not, maybe he was. But in the end the two organizations made the trade that was fair and it benefited both sides in the end. It would have been totally different if the chargers got a bad end of the stick. in the end they got good players and a QB that is argueably as good as eli if you take away the superbowls. I actually believe the problem with the chargers is their poor management. they had the talent and a window to win a superbowl and they missed it.


what about what brees is doing now in New Orleans? He doesn't want to sign that franchise tender... he's trying to work the system too. Does this mean that every guy is going to do that from now on? Not likely, this is the case of a player that feels he is entitled to something better. and I don't see him doing something wrong here because as the face of that franchise he deserves a real contract.

I think these guys are just trying to do what's best for them in the end. as they should because I would do the same thing if it were me....