Are The NBA Champions From 2008 The BEST EVER?

[Lorenzo]

well I hope the mavs do well. i think both teams give each other problems which is why they split the season series........and one game was OT.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm going to say Jordan's Bulls was the best team ever, the one team that Reggie Miller pushed off on Michael Jordan to hit the game winner. I can't remember the year...that was when the Eastern Conference Teams used to be really good.

i'll go with the 2nd of the Bulls 6 championship teams. That team won 67 games beat a stacked Portland squad and it was Jordan at the absolute peak of his game mentally and physically. Does anyone really remember just how disgusting Jordan was? I was watching some of the Game 6 Suns-Bulls game on Youtube a couple weeks ago and the guy was actually elevating higher on jump shots in the fourth than he was in the first... and elevating high. Dude was beyond filthy.

 

[nowagimp]

i'll go with the 2nd of the Bulls 6 championship teams. That team won 67 games beat a stacked Portland squad and it was Jordan at the absolute peak of his game mentally and physically. Does anyone really remember just how disgusting Jordan was? I was watching some of the Game 6 Suns-Bulls game on Youtube a couple weeks ago and the guy was actually elevating higher on jump shots in the fourth than he was in the first... and elevating high. Dude was beyond filthy.

I am not so sure that Jordans bulls were the best, but they were top 5. Those teams had mediocre post play, and relied so much on guard play, but what guard play, the best! MJ was the most unstoppable guard ever, but I wonder how much playing against more physical guards(like a handchecking artest) would have effected his play. MJ at his peak was almost always stronger and/or longer than his defender, and at a skinny 6'6" 205-210 lbs! Today these guys arent as explosive, but they are realtively musclebound. Probably the officiating thresholds would have determined MJ's effectiveness against an artest type defender. MJ was an outstanding leaper, but it was how fast he could pick up the dribble and elevate that was stunning.

 

[Kody Rumin]

They will be recognized for going through a lot of very good teams on their road to the championship. The teams recognized as the best ever are the ones who are dominant against everyone else, like the '90s Bulls and the '86 Celtics.

 

[Cheesebeef]

They will be recognized for going through a lot of very good teams on their road to the championship. The teams recognized as the best ever are the ones who are dominant against everyone else, like the '90s Bulls and the '86 Celtics.

as much as I hate to say it, you gotta throw the Repeat Showtime Lakers in there as well.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I am not so sure that Jordans bulls were the best, but they were top 5. Those teams had mediocre post play, and relied so much on guard play, but what guard play, the best! MJ was the most unstoppable guard ever, but I wonder how much playing against more physical guards(like a handchecking artest) would have effected his play. MJ at his peak was almost always stronger and/or longer than his defender, and at a skinny 6'6" 205-210 lbs! Today these guys arent as explosive, but they are realtively musclebound. Probably the officiating thresholds would have determined MJ's effectiveness against an artest type defender. MJ was an outstanding leaper, but it was how fast he could pick up the dribble and elevate that was stunning.

I can see where you're coming from here, although, just how many Artest type defenders are there in the league? You throw Bowen in there? Jordan would have wiped his ass with him.

 

[mojorizen7]

I'm biased but.......i'll pick the '92-'93 Bulls team.
Does anyone remember the Eastern finals between the Bulls & Knicks? That was still to this day the most brutally intense series i've ever seen. The Bulls emerged from that series bruised & battered and still managed to find that extra championship gear to defeat the SUNS ,who after sleepwalking thru games 1 & 2, had grabbed all the momentum and appeared to be destined for the title. The Bulls had nothing left in the tank and proved(to me) what it meant to overcome adversity & win on pure will.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm biased but.......i'll pick the '92-'93 Bulls team.
Does anyone remember the Eastern finals between the Bulls & Knicks? That was still to this day the most brutally intense series i've ever seen. The Bulls emerged from that series bruised & battered and still managed to find that extra championship gear to defeat the SUNS ,who after sleepwalking thru games 1 & 2, had grabbed all the momentum and appeared to be destined for the title. The Bulls had nothing left in the tank and proved(to me) what it meant to overcome adversity & win on pure will.

yeah, what that Bulls team did was pretty amazing. Those were GREAT Knicks and Suns teams (both 60 game winners i believe) and Chicago went into both series without home-court and didn't even let either series get to 7.

 

[cobbler]

With so many great teams, whoever wins it all should go down as one of the greatest teams of all-time. In any other season they would have been remarkable.

If the Suns pull this off, I will die a happy man. Then since I'm in Oklahoma City retire the Suns and move onto our new team next year. Odd but true. What a way to go out for Nash and Shaq. Win it all when the NBA was at it's best ever!

- Robert

What if say the wizards get hot, lucky, and win the east and then upset the west entry.... would you consider the wizards the best of all time? I'm thinking not.

 

[cobbler]

I can see where you're coming from here, although, just how many Artest type defenders are there in the league? You throw Bowen in there? Jordan would have wiped his ass with him.

The league in Jordans prime (90's) was not nearly as tough as the 80's or the 2000's.

 

[cobbler]

No matter how this postseason plays out for the Suns, I hope the officiating is decent and relatively fair. Unfortunately, I also know that that's far too much to ask for. My guess is that the later playoff rounds will end up being very disappointing, whether the Suns are involved or not, because it will become clear that the referees have some bizarre agenda that they will use to tilt the playing field dramatically.

Hopefully this doesnt happen, but the tradition of calling 'em in away that impacts the outcome goes back more than a decade. I can say this though, only recently have game winning shots been taken with a foot out of bounds. The NBA has seemed desperate in the post jordan era to be entertaining and profitable, I guess it just doesnt come naturally anymore. The more they tend to "produce a product", the worse it gets. I will watch, regardless of the suns fate, until the production gets in the way of the competition.

Dont you guys ever give it a rest? You are now PRE complaining about the refs and conspiricy theories in the playoffs that haven't even started? Again I ask, and have yet to be answered. If you truly believe that, then why do you support the NBA? So if you win, the refs and sterns finally allowed a level playing field and if you lose its all rigged? How sad.

 

[Cheesebeef]

The league in Jordans prime (90's) was not nearly as tough as the 80's or the 2000's.

I could see an argument for the 80's, but arguing the that 2000's has been tougher is a complete and utter joke IMO. The league wasn't nearly as diluted with high schoolers not to mention expansion teams and that doesn't go into account that the entire Eastern Conference has been a JV league up until this season. Yeah, the Bulls may have won 6 of 8, but they at least faced a stiff challenge in every Finals, facing 60 win teams with the some of the greatest players of all time leading them in every series.

 

[cobbler]

as much as I hate to say it, you gotta throw the Repeat Showtime Lakers in there as well.

That wasnt so hard was it?

The 2001 teams 15-1 run through the playoffs was pretty amazing!

 

[Cheesebeef]

That wasnt so hard was it?

The 2001 teams 15-1 run through the playoffs was pretty amazing!

yes, it was, but their competition was a relative joke. That being said, they're domination of such competition was truly something to behold. I've never seen a team just beat everyone to a pulp by 30 points.

 

[cobbler]

I could see an argument for the 80's, but arguing the that 2000's was tougher is a complete and utter joke IMO. The league wasn't nearly as diluted with high schoolers not to mention expansion teams and that doesn't go into account that the entire Eastern Conference has been a JV league up until this season. Yeah, the Bulls may have won 6 of 8, but they at least faced a stiff challenge in every Finals, facing 60 win teams with the some of the greatest players of all time leading them in every series.

Ok.... i can buy that. ANd even though diluted, i think the top 5 or 6 teams are just plain more athletic now and deeper than the 90's teams. But again, its so hard to compare eras with all the rule changes etc.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Ok.... i can buy that. ANd even though diluted, i think the top 5 or 6 teams are just plain more athletic now and deeper than the 90's teams.

deeper? I think people have very short memories. Almost every team back then went 10 deep and the general level of play was incredibly more skilled fundamentally with virtually all of those guys having actually played 3 years of college ball. Today's guys may be better athletes on the whole, but even today's guys weren't more athletic than Barkley, Drexler, Jordan, Shaq, Olajuwon, Shawn Kemp, Pippen, David Robinson, etc, etc.

 

[nowagimp]

I can see where you're coming from here, although, just how many Artest type defenders are there in the league? You throw Bowen in there? Jordan would have wiped his ass with him.

Yeah bowen would have served his purpose there, an *******, but he is not a physical one unless you are steve nash. Shane battier is a pretty stout one, brandon roy looks a lot more muscular than jordan was even 7 years in. Caron Butler is a strong dude, probably goes 225 or 230. When Kobe came out last year, he looked like he had been workingout with the gubernator, like a 235lb musclehead, and he wasnt better as a player. I'm glad he went back to kobe, the basketball player. His movements are much more fluid and quick, like the "mamba". He doesnt need to clear space with his elbows anymore. Lebron came in at 215-220, he now is over 250 to my eye. Lebron is just adapting to the physical nature of the officiating thresholds. These guys are all better defenders(except lebron) than bowen in my book, they just dont have TD backing them up in the lane when they get beat. Im just saying the game has changed, not necessarily for the better. Its more a game of strength than speed anymore. Dont get me wrong jordan was faster than these guys, and the rules in his day, he would have eaten them up. A handcheck and some physically perimitted bumping change the game, I had some of it it taught to me by a semi pro player 10 years ago. It can take your speed advantage away.

On the bulls weakness in the post, they used guys like longeley, cartwright, dele, even wennington in the middle, guys with huge flaws on offense, defense or both. And barkley used to eat horace grant up, just destroy him. I always felt that if another team with a good big guy and some decent guards played them, they might lose due to the weakness in the middle. The only good defender they ever had was Dele, and he was no hakeem, robinson or even ewing. Perhaps if reggie miller had been a knick, they would have upended the bulls a couple of times. So I am not sure the bulls would have matched up so well with a balanced team with a dominant big guy.

 

[nowagimp]

Dont you guys ever give it a rest? You are now PRE complaining about the refs and conspiricy theories in the playoffs that haven't even started? Again I ask, and have yet to be answered. If you truly believe that, then why do you support the NBA? So if you win, the refs and sterns finally allowed a level playing field and if you lose its all rigged? How sad.

Why does lousy officiating always equate to a conspiracy theory with you? You are like a transmission with only one gear, you just cant seem to read or hear anything except what you WANT to respond to.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Yeah bowen would have served his purpose there, an *******, but he is not a physical one unless you are steve nash. Shane battier is a pretty stout one, brandon roy looks a lot more muscular than jordan was even 7 years in. Caron Butler is a strong dude, probably goes 225 or 230. When Kobe came out last year, he looked like he had been workingout with the gubernator, like a 235lb musclehead, and he wasnt better as a player. I'm glad he went back to kobe, the basketball player. His movements are much more fluid and quick, like the "mamba". He doesnt need to clear space with his elbows anymore. Lebron came in at 215-220, he now is over 250 to my eye. Lebron is just adapting to the physical nature of the officiating thresholds. These guys are all better defenders(except lebron) than bowen in my book, they just dont have TD backing them up in the lane when they get beat. Im just saying the game has changed, not necessarily for the better. Its more a game of strength than speed anymore. Dont get me wrong jordan was faster than these guys, and the rules in his day, he would have eaten them up. A handcheck and some physically perimitted bumping change the game, I had some of it it taught to me by a semi pro player 10 years ago. It can take your speed advantage away.

On the bulls weakness in the post, they used guys like longeley, cartwright, dele, even wennington in the middle, guys with huge flaws on offense, defense or both. And barkley used to eat horace grant up, just destroy him. I always felt that if another team with a good big guy and some decent guards played them, they might lose due to the weakness in the middle. The only good defender they ever had was Dele, and he was no hakeem, robinson or even ewing. Perhaps if reggie miller had been a knick, they would have upended the bulls a couple of times. So I am not sure the bulls would have matched up so well with a balanced team with a dominant big guy.

a) how many teams are there in history that had a balanced team with a dominant big man? And they rarely even seemed to have problems when they did face such a task, kicking the teeth in (4-0 sweep) of a Shaq team which won 60 games and made the Finals a year earlier and kicked the crap out of a 60 win Zo team as well, not to mention continually kicking the crap out of Ewing and beating the Jazz with the greatest PF of all time. That's three of the five best C of that era and probably two of the three PFs of all time. Not sure what else they could do to prove that no matter what anyone did, that team was just going to win. Big, small, none of it mattered.

 

[cobbler]

Why does lousy officiating always equate to a conspiracy theory with you? You are like a transmission with only one gear, you just cant seem to read or hear anything except what you WANT to respond to.

Uhhhhh cause you keep bringing it up maybe? I read and hear a lot and respond to many different topics. Maybe i respond more to your complaining about the refs cause.... you complain about the refs constantly?

Just curious and no ill will intended, are you disabled? I was wondering due to your screename.

 

[nowagimp]

Uhhhhh cause you keep bringing it up maybe? I read and hear a lot and respond to many different topics. Maybe i respond more to your complaining about the refs cause.... you complain about the refs constantly?

Just curious and no ill will intended, are you disabled? I was wondering due to your screename.

Yep you cant get it out of your head can you, lousy officiating= conspiracy, you either dont know the meaning of conspiracy or you just adding the term in to satifsy your desired argument focus. The NBA has lousy officiating, if you dont think so perhaps you can make big bucks as sterns mouthpiece, or spindoctor, thats what you sound like. No I am not disabled, but have had a bynum type knee injury that never recovered. Its all relative I can still get the rim with both hands at 6'1". I am a gimp at basketball anymore compared to what I was.

 

[cobbler]

Yep you cant get it out of your head can you, lousy officiating= conspiracy, you either dont know the meaning of conspiracy or you just adding the term in to satifsy your desired argument focus. The NBA has lousy officiating, if you dont think so perhaps you can make big bucks as sterns mouthpiece, or spindoctor, thats what you sound like. No I am not disabled, but have had a bynum type knee injury that never recovered. Its all relative I can still get the rim with both hands at 6'1". I am a gimp at basketball anymore compared to what I was.

Come on. Are you going to deny the abundence of posts on this forum dedicated to the officiating being biased against the suns and a result of sterns and/or the NBA's direction? WOW

Sorry to hear about the knee. Glad you recovered.

 

[Irish]

I predict we will hear a lot of complaining from Spurs fans about refs this series.

In past years the big problem the Suns had was that refs do not make as many calls on physical play during the playoffs. Considering the level of intensity that the playoffs generate, their excuse is that no one would be left if the called everything.

This year the Suns are far more physical than any team the Suns have every put on the court. Shaq won a championship just a couple of years ago with a far weaker team than the current Suns because his style is optimized for the way the games are called.

 

[nowagimp]

Come on. Are you going to deny the abundence of posts on this forum dedicated to the officiating being biased against the suns and a result of sterns and/or the NBA's direction? WOW

Sorry to hear about the knee. Glad you recovered.

1) dont answer for all posts, and you shouldnt either. If the officiating is biased its a style bias, but it does influence outcomes. Some rules in the NBA are very fluid, change within the game even. Consistency is important to preserve the competitive nature of the game.

2) I never really recovered, the knee cap goes out(destabilizes) under alot of load(competitive bball, landing wrong), and I could not dunk after the injury, lost hops. Hopefully bynum recovers better. I was right saying he wouldnt come back this year(I knew PJ was blowing smoke)Its an injury that needs the right care and time to heal. I expect his Docs were alot better than mine, he'll be back next year.

Sterns first response to fans complaining about bad calls is "conspiracy theorists", that just political spin doctoring. I've seen it in politics for many years, I'd hope that attacking the critique is not the answer to the obvious inconsistency in officiating, as this will just prevent the correction of the problem by denying it, its classical politics.