Are the Raiders wrong to trade Mack? I'm not so sure

[cardsunsfan]

This league is so much about star players. The way it seems to go most of the time though is that a team has emerging stars, they get paid, and all of a sudden it is difficult for them to compete for a superbowl. Team's do best most of the time when the players are emerging and they are still are on their first contracts, especially the QB's. Once the new contracts are signed they starting finding it more and more difficult to compete. The exception to this may be the teams with the best QB's but even their deals hamper the team. Someone like Tom Brady taking a pay cut probably really helps, although the Patriots seems to focus for the most part on really good players, not superstars.

The Raiders ranked 23 in defence with Mack, maybe the best defensive player in the game. It shows with defense it takes a whole team of above average players to be good. With two first round draft picks properly used, and probably most important Mack's money spread out for very good up and comers the Raiders might be better than they would be with one great player. The NFL is not the NBA even though super stars get more attention. I think it's human nature to be more attracted to that. To make a good consistent team, I don't know if superstars on average get you that far with the cost of the imbalance it makes for the rest of the team...

 

[Russ Smith]

Gruden is saying publicly they made him an offer months ago but it was "nowhere near what Chicago gave him." His comment was the raiders just paid Derek Carr, they have Amari Cooper coming up soon, and they just couldn't afford to pay Mack what he wanted and pay the rest of the team. I don't know if I totally believe it but Carr got 5 years 125 million and Mack just got 6 years 141 million. So you're talking about 2 guys taking up close to 50 million in cap space(I don't know the exact cap hits on their contracts that's just an average). The cap is 177 so about 30% of their cap would have been tied to 2 players. Then you throw in Cooper and as the local media has been saying, #1 WR's tend to thrive in a Gruden coached offense, he features them. So its' quite likely Cooper is going to have a big year and want close to 20 million per year, more than Diggs, less than OBJ. So you suddenly see a scenario where close to 70 million dollars is tied up in just 3 players?

Local media is now speculating Cooper gets traded next, I hope not I think it'd be bad for the league if teh Raiders start dumping players but I can see the reason why cap wise. If 65 -70 million is tied up in 3 players and you still have to sign 50 more it gets pretty difficult.

I think to an extent the Raiders did the math, we weren't a good defense WITH Mack, so why spend that much money?

 

[Shane]

Gruden is saying publicly they made him an offer months ago but it was "nowhere near what Chicago gave him." His comment was the raiders just paid Derek Carr, they have Amari Cooper coming up soon, and they just couldn't afford to pay Mack what he wanted and pay the rest of the team. I don't know if I totally believe it but Carr got 5 years 125 million and Mack just got 6 years 141 million. So you're talking about 2 guys taking up close to 50 million in cap space(I don't know the exact cap hits on their contracts that's just an average). The cap is 177 so about 30% of their cap would have been tied to 2 players. Then you throw in Cooper and as the local media has been saying, #1 WR's tend to thrive in a Gruden coached offense, he features them. So its' quite likely Cooper is going to have a big year and want close to 20 million per year, more than Diggs, less than OBJ. So you suddenly see a scenario where close to 70 million dollars is tied up in just 3 players?

Local media is now speculating Cooper gets traded next, I hope not I think it'd be bad for the league if teh Raiders start dumping players but I can see the reason why cap wise. If 65 -70 million is tied up in 3 players and you still have to sign 50 more it gets pretty difficult.

I think to an extent the Raiders did the math, we weren't a good defense WITH Mack, so why spend that much money?

I don’t buy any of that after seeing the Rams fork out out the contracts they have paid between Gurley, Suh, Donald and Brandin Cooks.. And they are saying they have plenty of money to take care of Peters and Goff and will be close to 80 million under cap next year....

And that’s not counting Andrew Whitworth and Aqib Talib who count for almost 24 million in cap space between them.... He’ll even Michael Brockers and Roger Saffold don’t have cheap contracts... The raiders are making excuses IMO.

 

[oaken1]

the raiders have a few talented up and comers on their defense...

then,...Jon Gruden is all about offense anyway...

if he has to spend big money it will be on offensive players

he got his SB with Tampa, but that defense was in place when they traded for him....in his previous stint with the raiders, his defense was fairly average, but the team scored lots of points.

 

[Chopper0080]

If you dont have enough money for young pass rushers on your roster, you are prioritizing your money in the wrong way.

The Raiders defense may have been bad with Mack, but it will never be better than average without an edge player of his caliber.

 

[slanidrac16]

I don’t buy any of that after seeing the Rams fork out out the contracts they have paid between Gurley, Suh, Donald and Brandin Cooks.. And they are saying they have plenty of money to take care of Peters and Goff and will be close to 80 million under cap next year....

And that’s not counting Andrew Whitworth and Aqib Talib who count for almost 24 million in cap space between them.... He’ll even Michael Brockers and Roger Saffold don’t have cheap contracts... The raiders are making excuses IMO.

However, many of the players they signed this year are 1 year contracts. Obtaining or releasing "superstars" has a lot to do where a team is at this moment talent wise and cap wise. Where the Bears were prior to this acquisition is where the Cards should be next year. Another draft and free agency with a ton of cap space.

 

[Shane]

However, many of the players they signed this year are 1 year contracts. Obtaining or releasing "superstars" has a lot to do where a team is at this moment talent wise and cap wise. Where the Bears were prior to this acquisition is where the Cards should be next year. Another draft and free agency with a ton of cap space.

The only 1 year big cap hit was Suh.. The rest are all HUGE dollars multi year.

 

[Jasper]

If the top ten players of your team take up 50% of your cap space, not much pie left for your other players or backups. Once injuries happen its all downhill.

We’re in a toughrt position becaue our top 5 and the dead money eats up half of our cap.

 

[Southpaw]

I believe it was a smart move. 2 # 1s at least could be gold, or not. If Reggie McKenzie stays and does not blow it, and screws those picks up ( middle of first round at the worst) . No need to blow up the salary cap for 1 guy when they need so much. Raiders would not compete for AFC West playoff spot this year. Chargers/Chiefs should be top of that division. Bears need to chase Rodgers/Stafford/Cousins around. That's a bucket of money they threw at him. Ryan Pace may have stuck himself on the hot seat with this one ... or not.

 

[football karma]

Sure seems to me that finding a premier pass rusher is much harder than a WR.

If the Raiders are really saving money for Amari Cooper, they are fools.

 

[Chopper0080]

I believe it was a smart move. 2 # 1s at least could be gold, or not. If Reggie McKenzie stays and does not blow it, and screws those picks up ( middle of first round at the worst) . No need to blow up the salary cap for 1 guy when they need so much. Raiders would not compete for AFC West playoff spot this year. Chargers/Chiefs should be top of that division. Bears need to chase Rodgers/Stafford/Cousins around. That's a bucket of money they threw at him. Ryan Pace may have stuck himself on the hot seat with this one ... or not.

We are going to disagree on this one. I find it silly to trade a premier, young edge rusher to grab picks in hopes you can draft a premier, young edge rusher.

 

[Arz101]

Definition of A bird in hand is better than two in the bush.

I believe it was a smart move. 2 # 1s at least could be gold, or not. If Reggie McKenzie stays and does not blow it, and screws those picks up ( middle of first round at the worst) . No need to blow up the salary cap for 1 guy when they need so much. Raiders would not compete for AFC West playoff spot this year. Chargers/Chiefs should be top of that division. Bears need to chase Rodgers/Stafford/Cousins around. That's a bucket of money they threw at him. Ryan Pace may have stuck himself on the hot seat with this one ... or not.

Sent from my PH-1 using Tapatalk

 

[Russ Smith]

I don’t buy any of that after seeing the Rams fork out out the contracts they have paid between Gurley, Suh, Donald and Brandin Cooks.. And they are saying they have plenty of money to take care of Peters and Goff and will be close to 80 million under cap next year....

And that’s not counting Andrew Whitworth and Aqib Talib who count for almost 24 million in cap space between them.... He’ll even Michael Brockers and Roger Saffold don’t have cheap contracts... The raiders are making excuses IMO.

That's because Goff is on his rookie contract not his 2nd contract like Carr. Carr makes 25 a year, I looked it up GOff's caphit is 7.6 or 17.4 less than what I think Carr's is(again I'm going on average not sure what his individual years are.) That makes a huge difference signing other players. Gruden specifically mentioned the Rams and Goff when explaining why they traded Mack.

If you look at the Rams next year their top 5 players are about a 68 million cap hit. If the Raiders had signed Mack, and then sign Cooper next year, their top 3 players would be about 68 million. So same cap hit for 2 less players.

So if you're not a good defense WITH Mack, you can certainly make the argument to take the deal stock up on draft picks and use the money in other places.

Personally I would have probably signed Mack and traded Cooper, but again Gruden has a history of turning #1 WR's into huge parts of his offense.

 

[Russ Smith]

If you dont have enough money for young pass rushers on your roster, you are prioritizing your money in the wrong way.

The Raiders defense may have been bad with Mack, but it will never be better than average without an edge player of his caliber.

Right I'd have chosen Mack over Cooper but I can see why Gruden wouldn't.

 

[LoyalRam]

I don’t buy any of that after seeing the Rams fork out out the contracts they have paid between Gurley, Suh, Donald and Brandin Cooks.. And they are saying they have plenty of money to take care of Peters and Goff and will be close to 80 million under cap next year....

And that’s not counting Andrew Whitworth and Aqib Talib who count for almost 24 million in cap space between them.... He’ll even Michael Brockers and Roger Saffold don’t have cheap contracts... The raiders are making excuses IMO.

You forgot the extension for our RT Rob Haventstein (32. million/4years)

 

[LoyalRam]

Theoretically, it might make sense to grab two 1st round picks by trading a star. But the star is in the middle of his prime, and the Rams are an example of blowing a lot of draft capital over the years. Draft picks only matter if great players are picked. Mack is a sure thing, unlike the potential of the draft.

 

[cardncubfan]

I believe it was a smart move. 2 # 1s at least could be gold, or not. If Reggie McKenzie stays and does not blow it, and screws those picks up ( middle of first round at the worst) . No need to blow up the salary cap for 1 guy when they need so much. Raiders would not compete for AFC West playoff spot this year. Chargers/Chiefs should be top of that division. Bears need to chase Rodgers/Stafford/Cousins around. That's a bucket of money they threw at him. Ryan Pace may have stuck himself on the hot seat with this one ... or not.

They also lose their 2020 2nd & 4th rd picks. Granted they get back 3rd & 5th rd picks but the Bears are more likely to have the better record then.

 

[GatorAZ]

They also lose their 2020 2nd & 4th rd picks. Granted they get back 3rd & 5th rd picks but the Bears are more likely to have the better record then.

In terms of overall value the Raiders got more in the Gruden trade with Tampa than they got from Chicago for Mack.

 

[Finito]

I think it's funny Gruden got more guaranteed money than Mack ended up with.

The word up here in the bay is that the Raiders are cash strapped.

I like Mack but good lord they got a lot for him and when you suck it's kind of a hey we were bad with you we can be bad without you.

Does anything think Trubisky is the answer in Chicago?

The raiders could legit end up with two ton ten picks in each of the next two drafts

 

[Russ Smith]

Theoretically, it might make sense to grab two 1st round picks by trading a star. But the star is in the middle of his prime, and the Rams are an example of blowing a lot of draft capital over the years. Draft picks only matter if great players are picked. Mack is a sure thing, unlike the potential of the draft.

oh 100% agree I'm just saying there IS a defense to what Gruden is saying and what the Raiders did. Obviously Mack is a great player but their defense wasn't very good with him. Now maybe with him AND the young guys coming in the defense was going to take a major step up, but their belief is they're closer offensively than defensively so they apparently chose to try and keep the offense together. Now if they trade Amari Cooper as well I'll be changing my tune but right now it appears that they decided their 3 best players were Carr, Cooper and Mack and they had 1 locked up and choosing among the other 2, they chose Cooper. I would have chosen Mack myself, but I can understand why an offensive minded guy like Gruden would choose the other way.

Obviously if they blow those 2 picks the deal looks pretty one sided for the Bears.

The Raiders players wanted Mack to stay and from what he said publicly thanking the organization and the fans, he wanted to stay too, he just wanted the big payday. So this wasn't a case of him desperately wanting out.

It'll be interesting to follow and see if somewhere down the line more info comes out. AS I posted earlier last week, things changed very suddenly from the expectation he'd report and be a Raider, to they're going to trade him. That happened overnight in the local media.

 

[THESMEL]

That’s why Gruden gets the big bucks - to make tough decisions - 2 1st round bear draft picks makes it easier- raiders will have more top picks under rookie contracts going forward - making it easier to build his team - worked out great for Mack, bears are happy - and I would be a happy cardinal fan if the cards traded any player we got for 2 1st round picks -
Rainbows all around

 

[Veer]

Bears are vastly underrated. They already had a young top 10 defense last year. Their DC Fangio is one of the best. Now throw Mack into the mix and they are slowly approaching the elite tier.

Trubisky is a question mark, but his job won't be to replicate A-Rod. They have a stout OL. They will rely on run game and quick passes. They managed to sign proven playmakers who can turn short gains into chunk plays.


As for the Raiders, I can only imagine they were confident in retaining Mack and were too late realizing that all bridges were burned. So they had to take the best offer they could get.

While media likes to paint certain pictures, this trade could work well for both parties. Bears are going for it, while Gruden is in it for the long haul. Still like the Bears side more. If Mack remains on his current level, the Bears got a steal. Such generational players hardly ever become available. As for the Raiders, trading a star player or your high draft spot for multiple future high picks hasn't worked very well in recent memory. Chandler Jones is the only one that comes to my mind, but really not a major trade since no 1st round picks involved. Look at the RGIII trade, or the Browns passing on Wentz and many other franchise QBs in the past. The ball is now in Gruden's park to prove doubters wrong.

 

[Chopper0080]

That’s why Gruden gets the big bucks - to make tough decisions - 2 1st round bear draft picks makes it easier- raiders will have more top picks under rookie contracts going forward - making it easier to build his team - worked out great for Mack, bears are happy - and I would be a happy cardinal fan if the cards traded any player we got for 2 1st round picks -
Rainbows all around

Raiders paying 100 mil to Gruden to burn that franchise to the ground.

 

[Rams1Fan]

I can see Raiders trading Mack as they will probably suck anyways for the next few years. That said they should of starting shopping him before the draft.

 

[THESMEL]

Raiders paying 100 mil to Gruden to burn that franchise to the ground.

3 players would hold high percent of their cap - that’s why the cap is there to force teams to spread the wealth -