Are we all forgetting Amare's surgery?

[Cheesebeef]

Amare, by his own admission, has lost some of his vertical and lateral quickness. He's a different player than he was back in '05.

Sorry, I was wrong off the top of my head. He was just entering his peak at age 27, and still puts up great numbers without a decent point guard (I don't really think you could consider Sam Cassell great). And Garnett puts up better numbers than Duncan and Dirk, so I'm not sure what you're talking about.

uh, Garnett in no way puts up better offensive numbers than Dirk and Duncan could average 26 ppg if he wanted to and you know it, but it's not the way their system works. Although come playoff time, you can bet his average raises significantly.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

yeah, except 25.13/3 aren't KG numbers - he's never gone above 22ppg except ONE year - three years ago. And if Amare never had the surgery, he'd be a 30 ppg scorer by now -he was already at 26 before he got injured.

KG brings us no closer to a title and just destroys the future IMO. And for everyone who wants to keep saying the offense is fine, it's the defense that needs help - well, uess what - you're wrong - our offense in the Conference Finals the last three years has gone belly up, reaching our regular season average THREE TIMES in 17 games - the offense isn't as efficient because Marion gets knocked down four pegs and we can't afford that to happen, especially considering that KG hardly raises his game to the level that Amare does in post-season play - KG bumps from 20 ppg career to 22 on much worse shooting, while Amare elevates from 19 to 25 on similar rebounds.

no thanks to getting older, a little bit better defensively, but taking a HUGE step back on offense IMO.

What's the huge step back on offense? KG is a better passer and a better scorer. He can hit the outside shot with consistency, he can play inside, and he draws double teams and he's great at passing out on them. We get alot better on the boards (Garnett is probably the best rebounder in the league), and we get much better defensively (Amare is mediocre at best, while Garnett is one of the top five interior defenders in the league).

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

uh, Garnett in no way puts up better offensive numbers than Dirk and Duncan could average 26 ppg if he wanted to and you know it, but it's not the way their system works. Although come playoff time, you can bet his average raises significantly.

I'm taking Garnett's 22/13 over Dirk's 24/9 any day of the week. As long as we're dealing in hypotheticals, if Garnett had Duncan's supporting cast, he could put up 26 per game. And Duncan's playoff averages go up by a whopping two points.

 

[OldDirtMcGirt]

What'd we have with KG replacing Amare and half of the bench? We'd be relying on Nash even more with a similar results as in the past playoffs, unless GS eliminate both Mavs and Spurs to meet us in the WCF. But then, we'd be winning either way.

KG would be replacing only one actual rotation player (KT) who's going to be gone anyways due to salary reasons.

 

[Cheesebeef]

What's the huge step back on offense? KG is a better passer and a better scorer. He can hit the outside shot with consistency, he can play inside, and he draws double teams and he's great at passing out on them. We get alot better on the boards (Garnett is probably the best rebounder in the league), and we get much better defensively (Amare is mediocre at best, while Garnett is one of the top five interior defenders in the league).

KG is in no way the better scorer - he just gets more shots, thus his ppg is only SLIGHTLY higher than Amare's. Again, Amare shot 58% but only got 13 shots a game compared to 18 for KG. You give Amare 18 shots a game, he's, well, scoring 26 ppg like he did two years ago (on only 16.7 shots per game). Amare's jumper is just as solid as KG's, he goes to the hole with more authority (evidenced by the discrepency in FTs) and he just has that killer instinct needed when a team has to be puton his shoulders. I'll give you that KG's a MUCH superior passer and defender, byt come playoff time, when it matters most, Amare has shown just as good if not better rebounding skills.

I just see a Nash, Marion, KG ********* as EXTREMELY lacking in the ability to beat SA down the stretch of a big game. They're probably good enough to beat Dallas (although it's debatable) but not SA. Duncan would lock down KG (which he can't do with Amare), Nash wuld get locked down by Bruce and Marion, as usual would get locked down by the smallest player on the court.

we can agree to disagree but there's nothing that I can see that makes sense in mortgaging our future for what looks like a lateral move, gaining a little on defense, but losing the same on offense.

 

[cly2tw]

What's the huge step back on offense? KG is a better passer and a better scorer. He can hit the outside shot with consistency, he can play inside, and he draws double teams and he's great at passing out on them. We get alot better on the boards (Garnett is probably the best rebounder in the league), and we get much better defensively (Amare is mediocre at best, while Garnett is one of the top five interior defenders in the league).

Well, against the Spurs, there won't be that many uncontested outside shots for KG to shoot, since Nash will be controlled. Wind back and watch how they came back to win game 4 in SA. Nash passed to Amare with only a little to none space, and some of them were tough catches anyway. Amare caught and then bulled through still intense defense and scored, exploiting the little space allowed for him to gain some forward momentum on the catches. KG wouldn't have got that done.

And Amare was a great passer the few times he had the chances to pass, late in the seasons. We just didn't go through him often enough, since Nash was the sole ball handler whenever he was on the court, and LB was not pass it to anyone. Well, KG's "better" passing skill won't be any use here either.

 

[Cheesebeef]

I'm taking Garnett's 22/13 over Dirk's 24/9 any day of the week. As long as we're dealing in hypotheticals, if Garnett had Duncan's supporting cast, he could put up 26 per game. And Duncan's playoff averages go up by a whopping two points.

what makes you think Garnett could EVER put 26 ppgs? He's never done it ONCE in his entire career. This is just a completely baseless statement. It's not like his teams have never needed him to really be a dominant offensive players. It's just not in his make-up. Even on a loaded team, with talent surrounding him, the best he could muster was 24 ppg. Seriously, this statement has zero basis in fact/reality.

as far as the Garnet's 22/13 over Dirk's 24/9, I'm just talking about a player's ability to score without a great PG - hence the reason rebounding hasn't been brought up.

sorry, there's just no shred of evidence throughout KG's entire career that he could be an elite scorer.

 

[Ryanwb]

This thread sucks, 1 star

 

[azirish]

Let's stop pretending that there is supposed to be a deal of Amare for KG. There wouldn't be. It's whether a trade for a guy making $22 million is worth $9 million more than another guy playing a similar postion.

The reason why trading Marion makes sense and Amare doesn't is that Marion costs more than Amare and is worth substantially less than Amare. That's also why McHale wants Amare and doesn't want Marion even if Shawn agreed to the deal.

As much as I love KG, IMHO he is not $9 million a year more valuable than Amare let alone the extra assets needed to make the deal work.

 

[sharkman]

But has anybody actually had the surgery twice and come back successfully from it? I honestly don't know.

KG hasn't had any health issues his entire career. It isn't like STAT's injury that has a pretty consistent pattern of ending careers or severly limiting them. And KG for Amare isn't a straight push by any means.

Yup...that Jason Kidd dude really stunk after his micro fracture surgery....he was done... and KJ too....and the fact that Amare didn't miss a single game should make the hospital alarm bells ring...he's done for good..