ARI @ BAL – Heroes and Goats

[Proximo]

To me Reddick played his best game as a cardinal yesterday. Does that make him great or even good, No - but I don't think he should be called a goat when he seems to be improving.

 

[Matt L]

Good.

He should call out Shipley. AQ sucked yesterday.

Sent from my mystical communication warp drive device thingy

He's stunk for the past 5 years

 

[Matt L]

What is having Tom Clements on the staff for if he's not going to tell Coach Kingsbury that an NFL field goal is only worth 3 points? Many people said before the seasons they'd be happy with a slow start from a wins perspective as long as the games were close. Do you still feel that way?

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Corey Peters – Excellent work by the big fella clogging up the middle of the field and getting a sack. Peters isn't an underrated player for people who know how this team works; he's a cornerstone of a defense that is pretty good and one of the best free agent signings in Keim's tenure here.

Byron Murphy – The Cards chose to play a lot of zone defense, which required some inexperenced players to make some hard choices. Murphy has shown that he belongs on the NFL field and could be a very good number two cornerback very soon.

Christian Kirk – Excellent bounceback game for Kirk, catching 75% of his targets for 114 yards, including 4 first downs. Kirk can't be the best or second-best receiver on a good/playoff team; it's going to be hard to plan for him in the future.

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David Johnson – I didn't think that David Johnson played as poorly as his 7 carry for 14 yard stat line. There's an open question whether he can run in this style of offense. He's the fourth-highest-paid running back in the NFL right now.

Haason Reddick – The defining play for the Cards' 2017 first-rounder was the softest arm tackle that I've ever seen on Mark Ingram in the first half. Reddick makes up for his poor instincts with his plus athleticism, but the sum of those parts is still a below-average interior player.

A.Q. Shipley – Maybe I'm imposing a narrative, but it sure looked like Shipley was yelling at Kyler at the end of a series yesterday, and Fitz had to come get involved. Shipley did not have his best homecoming (of sorts) game. He's the most veteran OL starter and a captain; he needs to do better?

Has the future of football arrived?

Not this week — maybe on the Ravens sideline. Remember those preseason debates about whether Murray would go over 700 yards rushing? He's on pace for less than 150 yards and averaging less than 3 YPC. Part of the problem is that teams are still loading up against the run and the passing game is incomplete without at least one more above-average receiver. But Murray has to be more creative (selfish?) with his legs.

Can you elaborate on your Christian Kirk stance?

 

[LarryStalling]

The Murray and Shipley thing reminded me of when Jake was the QB and he rifled a pass right into the back of an offensive lineman's helmet. I think that was the center also. Made me laugh so hard....

 

[CFLredzoned]

What is having Tom Clements on the staff for if he's not going to tell Coach Kingsbury that an NFL field goal is only worth 3 points? Many people said before the seasons they'd be happy with a slow start from a wins perspective as long as the games were close. Do you still feel that way?

That's what I was thinking. I liked what Warner had to say about it. Defenses do so many different things in the red zone with their coverages - as an offense you also have to be prepared with multiple options yourself - and it doesn't look like the Cardinals are doing that. So don't we have a staff with a wealth of experience to advise K2 on this?

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

That's what I was thinking. I liked what Warner had to say about it. Defenses do so many different things in the red zone with their coverages - as an offense you also have to be prepared with multiple options yourself - and it doesn't look like the Cardinals are doing that. So don't we have a staff with a wealth of experience to advise K2 on this?

The plays we are running are not the only issue in the red zone. It also comes down to the players not being 100% in sync yet. Also Murray is still learning the NFL game and part of that is the different looks he sees in the red zone. It's easy to call out KK for his play calling with the redzone futility, but the fact is that if some of the plays he called were executed perfectly and thus resulted in some TDs than no one would be questioning those play calls.

That's not to say that the play calls haven't been an issue, but it is very tough to know right now just how much of it is the calls and how much of it is the players not executing well enough.

 

[Chopper0080]

The plays we are running are not the only issue in the red zone. It also comes down to the players not being 100% in sync yet. Also Murray is still learning the NFL game and part of that is the different looks he sees in the red zone. It's easy to call out KK for his play calling with the redzone futility, but the fact is that if some of the plays he called were executed perfectly and thus resulted in some TDs than no one would be questioning those play calls.

That's not to say that the play calls haven't been an issue, but it is very tough to know right now just how much of it is the calls and how much of it is the players not executing well enough.

This is very accurate. A play call is not good or bad based only upon it's outcome.

 

[SECTION 11]

Before the season I thought there was no way you stop Murray from inside the ten. The good news is that this seems pretty clearly self-inflicted and correctable.

 

[gimpy]

This is very accurate. A play call is not good or bad based only upon it's outcome.

Some people might argue that. You might think that, but, if the play fails, for whatever reason, then is it a good call?
One might argue that a good call is one that has success.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Some people might argue that. You might think that, but, if the play fails, for whatever reason, then is it a good call?
One might argue that a good call is one that has success.

Yes because there are gray areas in football. A call could be good and not be executed properly. Or a call could be bad, but because of a bad play by the defender or bail out scramble by Murray could cause it to work out. Just because it works or doesn’t work doesn’t dictate whether it was the right call or not.

 

[dscher]

It happens, loud stadium veteran C, rookie QB the tendency is to assume it was KM's fault but I honestly think it was Shipley because it didn't seem like the rest of the OL was expecting the snaps either. Happened in the first game too so they have to get on the same page. But I suspect either he does something that confuses Shipley and he snaps it, or there's just a disconnect that needs to be fixed. There were a couple of others where it seemed Kyler clearly didn't think the snap was coming at the right time either early or late so there's something they have to sort out, I'm sure they will.

Agreed. I'd rather see that fire between the two of em after a play then to just ignore each other and let it fester... I always feel better after getting into a heated argument. Lol.

 

[Russ Smith]

Some people might argue that. You might think that, but, if the play fails, for whatever reason, then is it a good call?
One might argue that a good call is one that has success.

Well how about the dropped pass by Agholor late in the Eagles game? That's a great call, wide open for a TD against a defense designed to not let someone get behind them, and he drops it. Perfect call bad execution

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Well how about the dropped pass by Agholor late in the Eagles game? That's a great call, wide open for a TD against a defense designed to not let someone get behind them, and he drops it. Perfect call bad execution

I think the first fade play to Fitz was a great call because it got him into a 1 on 1 coverage with a smaller corner, but Murray just didn't throw it close enough to give Fitz a chance at it. Good call that got a good matchup, but wasn't executed well enough by the players.

 

[kerouac9]

I think the first fade play to Fitz was a great call because it got him into a 1 on 1 coverage with a smaller corner, but Murray just didn't throw it close enough to give Fitz a chance at it. Good call that got a good matchup, but wasn't executed well enough by the players.

Fitz was absolutely blanketed on that play. When I free up some time, I'm planning to look at the Coaches Film and see if there were better decisions Kyler could've made in the red zone.

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

Fitz was absolutely blanketed on that play. When I free up some time, I'm planning to look at the Coaches Film and see if there were better decisions Kyler could've made in the red zone.

Still 1 on 1 with a much smaller player. You should trust Fitz to make the play in that situation and try and squeeze it in back shoulder or something. Instead he either threw it away or just missed high.

 

[kerouac9]

Can you elaborate on your Christian Kirk stance?

It's a long-term concern when you think about whether he's a core player on your team. I think he's a guy who is going to get overpaid for what he's able to do on the field. If he evolves into a team captain or something, then I think you can make a stronger argument go give him $10 million a year. But I think he'll be someone where you look and see he catches 80+ passes and 900+ yards over the next two or three seasons and then you overpay him.

 

[BigRedRage]

It's a long-term concern when you think about whether he's a core player on your team. I think he's a guy who is going to get overpaid for what he's able to do on the field. If he evolves into a team captain or something, then I think you can make a stronger argument go give him $10 million a year. But I think he'll be someone where you look and see he catches 80+ passes and 900+ yards over the next two or three seasons and then you overpay him.

I think he is clearly #2 here and if/when fitz leaves, he would be our #1. I see no reason why not. He has shown high end talent both years so far.

 

[MadCardDisease]

I think he is clearly #2 here and if/when fitz leaves, he would be our #1. I see no reason why not. He has shown high end talent both years so far.

I think he has a lot to prove still before I would consider him as a #1. I think he will be a #2 at best.

 

[Proximo]

I think he is clearly #2 here and if/when fitz leaves, he would be our #1. I see no reason why not. He has shown high end talent both years so far.

I don't think Kirk is what you want as #1. He should be fine as a 2, but your number one should be able to get open at will, and I don't think Kirk can.

 

[kerouac9]

I think he is clearly #2 here and if/when fitz leaves, he would be our #1. I see no reason why not. He has shown high end talent both years so far.

You will lose a lot of games with him as your #1 receiver, just like we've lost a lot of games with late-model Larry Fitzgerald as our #1 receiver. Our receiving corps needs to get better at the top.

I'm open to having my mind changed, but people are seeing something different than I am if they look at Christian Kirk and think that he's in the same class as Odell Beckham or Julio Jones. I don't think he can ever be a Top 10 wideout.

You're okay if he's a #2, but you'd prefer that he's a #3.

 

[BigRedRage]

You will lose a lot of games with him as your #1 receiver, just like we've lost a lot of games with late-model Larry Fitzgerald as our #1 receiver. Our receiving corps needs to get better at the top.

I'm open to having my mind changed, but people are seeing something different than I am if they look at Christian Kirk and think that he's in the same class as Odell Beckham or Julio Jones. I don't think he can ever be a Top 10 wideout.

You're okay if he's a #2, but you'd prefer that he's a #3.

Fitz has been stellar so far I thought. I would think off the top of my head Kirk would be in the top 30-40 WR in the NFL but id have to look at it. He is 32 in yards so far this year but that doesn't mean much, its only week 2. I say lets give him more than his rookie year to show what he has.

(BTW fitz is #8 right now in yards. Fitz #12 in receptions, kirk 32)

So far I think he is handily a #2 WR but we shall see.

 

[kerouac9]

Fitz has been stellar so far I thought. I would think off the top of my head Kirk would be in the top 30-40 WR in the NFL but id have to look at it. He is 32 in yards so far this year but that doesn't mean much, its only week 2. I say lets give him more than his rookie year to show what he has.

(BTW fitz is #8 right now in yards. Fitz #12 in receptions, kirk 32)

So far I think he is handily a #2 WR but we shall see.

Okay -- how many games have we won? If you think that Kirk might end up one of the worst #1 WRs in the NFL, I'd agree with you.

I think we're going to have to look at better metrics for WR production than counting stats like receptions and yards. I don't have anything to point to yet, but I feel like there are a lot of empty calories in this offense.

 

[gimpy]

You blame the coach for bad calls. You blame the qb for not making good throws, throwing off the back foot, etc., now blaming the wide receiver(s).
Whoops, haven't seen the blame for the O line or D line (well, maybe).

 

[BigRedRage]

Okay -- how many games have we won? If you think that Kirk might end up one of the worst #1 WRs in the NFL, I'd agree with you.

I think we're going to have to look at better metrics for WR production than counting stats like receptions and yards. I don't have anything to point to yet, but I feel like there are a lot of empty calories in this offense.

wins loss doesnt have a lot to do with being a #1 wr to me. Julio Jones is 1-1 and one of the best WR in the game. Odell is 1-1. AJ green is 0-2.

 

[kerouac9]

wins loss doesnt have a lot to do with being a #1 wr to me. Julio Jones is 1-1 and one of the best WR in the game. Odell is 1-1. AJ green is 0-2.

A.J. Green isn't playing.