Arizona Basketball 2018-2019

[GatorAZ]

Got me. Apparently it’s not painfully obvious to me. So I’ll ask again, why in the world would they be out to destroy UofA? What’s their motive? Maybes there’s some sinister history of which I’m unaware.

Choosing to ignore everyone except Arizona makes them look more and more guilty thus gives credence to their report in the minds of people who haven’t followed the case. I totally get it and think it’s smart albeit very biased and unprofessional. If you don’t believe that then tell me why other programs like Kansas etc that have been directly implicated are literally invisible to ESPN’s coverage of corruption in CBB?

 

[TJ]

There is as much evidence of Oregon, UCLA, and others talking w/ Dawkins as there is with Arizona; yet, Arizona gets all of the National negative pub out of it. Miller giving ESPN no access is absolutely warranted in this case, and it would not surprise me if that recommendation was given by an attorney. Either way, if a single entity nearly cost me my career, I would take every step possible to avoid giving them a pot to piss in. There’s no “the program needs positive publicity from ESPN” here. F%ck that sh%t. What ESPN did was incredibly reckless, unethical, and damaging.

BTW -Fran Frachela (sp) has attempted to reach out to Miller on a couple of occasions to apologize for the debauchery caused by ESPN.

 

[Russ Smith]

They are already on a mission to destroy our program. They literally unloaded their chamber multiple times. They have no more leverage.

Miller and Ayton, however, could sue them

Again, why? What are they suing for libel or defamation? Correct me if I'm wrong but both require that what was said be untrue, and that the person who said it KNEW it was untrue when they said it. The damage part I think can be proven, but right now it's impossible for Arizona to prove it's untrue, and twice as impossible to prove ESPN and Schlabach knew it was. Everytime ESPN doubles down on the story it shows that they either still think it's true, or have a lawyer advising them to do it so they can use that as a defense, someone lied to us we didn't know it was untrue.

Miller wouldn't sue anyways it would lead to a case where the NCAA would get access to information in discovery, he'd have to be 100% clean and there's no program in the country that is.

Ayton could certainly sue, but again I assume he won't because I don't see how he could win, he can't prove anything.

 

[TJ]

Choosing to ignore everyone except Arizona makes them look more and more guilty thus gives credence to their report in the minds of people who haven’t followed the case. I totally get it and think it’s smart albeit very biased and unprofessional. If you don’t believe that then tell me why other programs like Kansas etc that have been directly implicated are literally invisible to ESPN’s coverage of corruption in CBB?

I think ESPN doing what it’s done to Arizona is an attempt to make something out of nothing. ESPN knows the Schlabach article is trash; they just can’t come out and retract it because it’s the only thing protecting them from a lawsuit. Their best play is to continue to attempt to prove it and use the journalist shield to protect themselves.

Kansas and Duke are bulletproof unless the schools are sanctioned by the NCAA, and even then would it still come to their defense.

 

[Russ Smith]

There is as much evidence of Oregon, UCLA, and others talking w/ Dawkins as there is with Arizona; yet, Arizona gets all of the National negative pub out of it. Miller giving ESPN no access is absolutely warranted in this case, and it would not surprise me if that recommendation was given by an attorney. Either way, if a single entity nearly cost me my career, I would take every step possible to avoid giving them a pot to piss in. There’s no “the program needs positive publicity from ESPN” here. F%ck that sh%t. What ESPN did was incredibly reckless, unethical, and damaging.

BTW -Fran Frachela (sp) has attempted to reach out to Miller on a couple of occasions to apologize for the debauchery caused by ESPN.

While I certainly agree that it seems ESPN has a hard on for Arizona, I would add, there's an obvious difference between the 3 pac 12 schools and Dawkins/Bowen. UCLA and Bowen parted ways the day it became known Kris Wilkes was going to commit. Oregon got a visit from him but was never a serious contender, Arizona WON the Bowen recruitment, he was going there, he just wanted to wait on Trier and Alkins to see if they were staying or going pro. So if you believe that Bowen was for sale, and was going to get paid, and Arizona won the recruitment, then it's pretty easy for someone like ESPN to assume he was probably expecting something to go there(from Nike not Arizona). Alkins and Trier stayed, and he went to Louisville, got money and was never cleared to play.

Now we have zero proof he was going to get money to go to Arizona but it's much easier to assume wrong doing with Nike and Arizona in his recruitment than it is with Oregon or UCLA, because Arizona had the kid.

It's entirely possible that everyone was talking to Dawkins, he was asking for money and they were saying no. It sure explains the Michigan State dropping of him cold, but again it just defies logic that kids like him, and Zion, were offered money by one school, were being openly shopped by their father, and yet picked another school with no money. It's possible, but it's not obvious which is why people are skeptical.

Arizona could be entirely clean, or they could be incredibly lucky that Alkins and Trier stayed.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think ESPN doing what it’s done to Arizona is an attempt to make something out of nothing. ESPN knows the Schlabach article is trash; they just can’t come out and retract it because it’s the only thing protecting them from a lawsuit. Their best play is to continue to attempt to prove it and use the journalist shield to protect themselves.

Kansas and Duke are bulletproof unless the schools are sanctioned by the NCAA, and even then would it still come to their defense.

I buy that with Duke but not Kansas, no school in the NCAA has been on probation more times than Kansas for basketball. The NCAA has not had any problem nailing them when they feel they did something wrong.

And again, Kansas is doing what Arizona didn't do, they suspended the kid that was named in the case, DeSousa.

 

[TJ]

I buy that with Duke but not Kansas, no school in the NCAA has been on probation more times than Kansas for basketball. The NCAA has not had any problem nailing them when they feel they did something wrong.

And again, Kansas is doing what Arizona didn't do, they suspended the kid that was named in the case, DeSousa.

Or Arizona knew that those named were cleared, as was reported by Gershon. Either Arizona was more informed about its players than Kansas, USC, etc., and found no logic in suspending anyone, or it gambled.

 

[GatorAZ]

I buy that with Duke but not Kansas, no school in the NCAA has been on probation more times than Kansas for basketball. The NCAA has not had any problem nailing them when they feel they did something wrong.

And again, Kansas is doing what Arizona didn't do, they suspended the kid that was named in the case, DeSousa.

Hasn’t it been proven that DeSouza or his family received payments? So far there’s nothing but hearsay regarding Ayton, Alkins, Little, Quinerly etc. They might’ve received something but I thought the DeSouza stuff was more concrete.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Choosing to ignore everyone except Arizona makes them look more and more guilty thus gives credence to their report in the minds of people who haven’t followed the case. I totally get it and think it’s smart albeit very biased and unprofessional. If you don’t believe that then tell me why other programs like Kansas etc that have been directly implicated are literally invisible to ESPN’s coverage of corruption in CBB?

You said it’s obvious why they are trying to destroy the program. I’m still waiting for the why.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

There is as much evidence of Oregon, UCLA, and others talking w/ Dawkins as there is with Arizona; yet, Arizona gets all of the National negative pub out of it. Miller giving ESPN no access is absolutely warranted in this case, and it would not surprise me if that recommendation was given by an attorney. Either way, if a single entity nearly cost me my career, I would take every step possible to avoid giving them a pot to piss in. There’s no “the program needs positive publicity from ESPN” here. F%ck that sh%t. What ESPN did was incredibly reckless, unethical, and damaging.

BTW -Fran Frachela (sp) has attempted to reach out to Miller on a couple of occasions to apologize for the debauchery caused by ESPN.

Yes wise. Cut off your nose to spite your face. Smart. Might feel good in the short run but incredibly stupid for the long run strategically.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

BTW -Fran Frachela (sp) has attempted to reach out to Miller on a couple of occasions to apologize for the debauchery caused by ESPN.

Wait, an employee of ESPN is reaching out to UofA . . . but, but they are trying to destroy the university’s program. That doesn’t make any sense.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Again, why? What are they suing for libel or defamation? Correct me if I'm wrong but both require that what was said be untrue, and that the person who said it KNEW it was untrue when they said it. The damage part I think can be proven, but right now it's impossible for Arizona to prove it's untrue, and twice as impossible to prove ESPN and Schlabach knew it was. Everytime ESPN doubles down on the story it shows that they either still think it's true, or have a lawyer advising them to do it so they can use that as a defense, someone lied to us we didn't know it was untrue.

Miller wouldn't sue anyways it would lead to a case where the NCAA would get access to information in discovery, he'd have to be 100% clean and there's no program in the country that is.

Ayton could certainly sue, but again I assume he won't because I don't see how he could win, he can't prove anything.

And frankly Ayton can’t show any damages. He still went #1 in the draft and he’s have to prove he lost promotional opportunities as a result. The kid has enough on his plate as a high profile rookie. He’s gonna sue ESPN and bring any further negative pub his way? Not likely. And when I say “not likely” I really mean “no chance.” Anyone who would advise him to do so is not acting in his best interests.

 

[GatorAZ]

You said it’s obvious why they are trying to destroy the program. I’m still waiting for the why.

Technically it’s Miller but it directly impacts Arizona. As long as he’s coaching here it’s the same thing.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Technically it’s Miller but it directly impacts Arizona. As long as he’s coaching here it’s the same thing.

But why? You still haven’t answered the question you said was obvious. Why does ESPN have a vendetta against Miller? What did he do to any of them? To a producer? You said the reason why is obvious and I’m still searching anything you’ve typed for the motive. I’m honestly not trying to be argumentative. I’d theres a reason why they would target and hound a specific person I could maybe get behind the thinking of an international corporation trying to take down a man and thus a collegiate basketball program (as ludicrous as that sentence is . . . please read it again).

I just watched the 30 for 30 about Knight strangling Neil reed and at the time I was thinking those Indiana fans look like complete idiots saying espn is out to get their program and Bobby Knight. Don’t they know how stupid they look? And then I come here and essentially read the same conspiracy stuff. You guys sound like the yahoos that were rioting on the Indiana campus and threatening ESPN personnel that were covering it. Sorry if that comes off as harsh, but that’s my perspective and I’m a zona fan.

 

[GatorAZ]

But why? You still haven’t answered the question you said was obvious. Why does ESPN have a vendetta against Miller? What did he do to any of them? To a producer? You said the reason why is obvious and I’m still searching anything you’ve typed for the motive. I’m honestly not trying to be argumentative. I’d theres a reason why they would target and hound a specific person I could maybe get behind the thinking of an international corporation trying to take down a man and thus a collegiate basketball program (as ludicrous as that sentence is . . . please read it again).

I just watched the 30 for 30 about Knight strangling Neil reed and at the time I was thinking those Indiana fans look like complete idiots saying espn is out to get their program and Bobby Knight. Don’t they know how stupid they look? And then I come here and essentially read the same conspiracy stuff. You guys sound like the yahoos that were rioting on the Indiana campus and threatening ESPN personnel that were covering it. Sorry if that comes off as harsh, but that’s my perspective and I’m a zona fan.

I don’t think the initial report by Mark Schlabach was a direct vendetta against Miller. I think he just legitamately screwed up. ESPN’s vendetta is only choosing to report news on Arizona to legitimize the report. If Schlabach went after Bill Self instead then Arizona would be ignored by ESPN as the other programs have been.

 

[TJ]

Yes wise. Cut off your nose to spite your face. Smart. Might feel good in the short run but incredibly stupid for the long run strategically.

Honestly, what’s the long-term consequence in denying ESPN access to the program? Not like they’re going to stop showing Arizona games. This is not supposed to be a “feel good” moment. Everything this athletic department and Sean Miller do is calculated and thought out carefully. They don’t operate on emotion; otherwise, Miller would’ve been fired or resigned by now.

Seth Greenberg was one of the people who publicly ridiculed Miller, and there’s a rumor floating around that he had a major influence on the Schlabach report. Take that nugget FWIW.

 

[Russ Smith]

Hasn’t it been proven that DeSouza or his family received payments? So far there’s nothing but hearsay regarding Ayton, Alkins, Little, Quinerly etc. They might’ve received something but I thought the DeSouza stuff was more concrete.

It came out in the trial just like everything else did but I'm not aware anybody has PROVEN he got money. I think he did, the whole one shoe company buying out the other one angle with him is nuts, but remember it's widely believed that Maryland C Bruno Fernandez got a very similar deal to go to Maryland but because he wasn't directly named in the FBI case, Maryland hasn't suspended him.

SI and others wrote long articles about the inequity in DeSousa being suspended by Kansas because he MIGHT be ineligible and they don't want to forfeit games, but Self and Townsend being allowed to coach because nobody has proven they did anything wrong despite claims to the contrary in the case.

And to be clear, TJ may be right, all the stuff against Arizona may come down to Book and Dawkins bragging on the phone while Book kept all the money, that's entirely possible and then Arizona would be right. My point is maybe part of the reason ESPN seems to be playing hardball with Arizona and softball with others is that arizona is the one school directly named in this case that didn't suspend anybody? All they did was fire Book, and if it comes out in the end they're totally clear, then ARizona was just smarter than everyone else but right now nobody really knows that.

 

[Russ Smith]

I don’t think the initial report by Mark Schlabach was a direct vendetta against Miller. I think he just legitamately screwed up. ESPN’s vendetta is only choosing to report news on Arizona to legitimize the report. If Schlabach went after Bill Self instead then Arizona would be ignored by ESPN as the other programs have been.

I think they're either convinced they're right, or it's part of a defense strategy of continuing to report it's true so that when it comes out it's not true, they can't be accused of knowingly reporting a false story.

 

[Russ Smith]

This case is still fascinating because this far in we still don't know much. It's entirely possible that the only violation by Arizona was by Book, that Dawkins was just talking and because he had a connection with Book he got Arizona's name connected to a whole bunch of kids who then got mentioned in the FBI case and made Arizona look like a renegade when they actually weren't.

We apparently have to wait for the next round of trials because the NCAA isn't doing anything. I think the minute they didn't suspend Zion, it became clear they didn't have enough evidence yet from the FBI case to suspend players.

 

[GatorAZ]

It came out in the trial just like everything else did but I'm not aware anybody has PROVEN he got money. I think he did, the whole one shoe company buying out the other one angle with him is nuts, but remember it's widely believed that Maryland C Bruno Fernandez got a very similar deal to go to Maryland but because he wasn't directly named in the FBI case, Maryland hasn't suspended him.

SI and others wrote long articles about the inequity in DeSousa being suspended by Kansas because he MIGHT be ineligible and they don't want to forfeit games, but Self and Townsend being allowed to coach because nobody has proven they did anything wrong despite claims to the contrary in the case.

And to be clear, TJ may be right, all the stuff against Arizona may come down to Book and Dawkins bragging on the phone while Book kept all the money, that's entirely possible and then Arizona would be right. My point is maybe part of the reason ESPN seems to be playing hardball with Arizona and softball with others is that arizona is the one school directly named in this case that didn't suspend anybody? All they did was fire Book, and if it comes out in the end they're totally clear, then ARizona was just smarter than everyone else but right now nobody really knows that.

I thought the Yahoo report from February detailed specific transcripts of payments; Fultz, Smith Jr, Jackson, Kuzma etc... I suppose at the end of the day the only way to prove it is a player/family member taking cash on camera or them admitting it. Nobody is going to do that. IIRC the Ayton/Miller story broke the night of the Yahoo story which sounds pretty shady.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Honestly, what’s the long-term consequence in denying ESPN access to the program? Not like they’re going to stop showing Arizona games. This is not supposed to be a “feel good” moment. Everything this athletic department and Sean Miller do is calculated and thought out carefully. They don’t operate on emotion; otherwise, Miller would’ve been fired or resigned by now.

Seth Greenberg was one of the people who publicly ridiculed Miller, and there’s a rumor floating around that he had a major influence on the Schlabach report. Take that nugget FWIW.

Denying access to the program limits exposure for the program. Are you arguing that less exposure for the program is going to help recruiting efforts? Who is going to put the best face on the program but the program itself? Deny access is silly. Like that’s going to impact ESPN. How many other programs can they focus on without skipping a beat?

 

[Russ Smith]

I thought the Yahoo report from February detailed specific transcripts of payments; Fultz, Smith Jr, Jackson, Kuzma etc... I suppose at the end of the day the only way to prove it is a player/family member taking cash on camera or them admitting it. Nobody is going to do that. IIRC the Ayton/Miller story broke the night of the Yahoo story which sounds pretty shady.

IIRC they just had lists of players names and amounts, I think there might have been some receipts or something. The one I remember was Bam Adebayo because everyone immediately said I knew Calipari was dirty, and then it turned out that it was NC State, not UK, that tried to pay him.

 

[Russ Smith]

Denying access to the program limits exposure for the program. Are you arguing that less exposure for the program is going to help recruiting efforts? Who is going to put the best face on the program but the program itself? Deny access is silly. Like that’s going to impact ESPN. How many other programs can they focus on without skipping a beat?

I don't know but I suspect part of why UA is recruiting so well right now is that there's this perception out there that UA was wronged by ESPN and got screwed out of a great recruiting class last year.

So it may be us against them is helping UA recruit, or maybe Miller is just a great recruiter.

 

[TJ]

Denying access to the program limits exposure for the program. Are you arguing that less exposure for the program is going to help recruiting efforts? Who is going to put the best face on the program but the program itself? Deny access is silly. Like that’s going to impact ESPN. How many other programs can they focus on without skipping a beat?

Again, ESPN isnt going to purge Arizona games from its network because Miller won't do pregame interviews. It's the biggest Pac-12 draw in terms of viewership. Miller does not need help recruiting as he does an amazing job of building relationships and drawing upper-tier talent, especially in the face of one of the biggest controversies in basketball history. Greenberg was literally one of the people calling for Miller's job and not recanting when he had the opportunity. Why the hell would Miller allow him access to more information on his program? I'm not sure you understand the magnitude of ESPN's reckless behavior. If Miller weren't a public figure, he would be suing the poo out of ESPN for libel, and that might still happen.

 

[TJ]

I don’t think the initial report by Mark Schlabach was a direct vendetta against Miller. I think he just legitamately screwed up. ESPN’s vendetta is only choosing to report news on Arizona to legitimize the report. If Schlabach went after Bill Self instead then Arizona would be ignored by ESPN as the other programs have been.

Bingo. Schlabach fudged up by not fact-checking his source and so did his co-workers who ran with his information as gospel.