Arizona Basketball 2019-2020

[GatorAZ]

Perfect ending for Arizona basketball. Imagine had this team lived up to the hype and was looking at a top seed.

 

[Phrazbit]

Miller gets one more year because of this. Question on my mind right now is whether Kansas gets some BS national championship banner because they finished #1

He really shouldn't. This is the 4th time in 5 years that they've played well below expectations.

The only thing he has succeeded at in recent years is recruiting and, so far, his 2020 class is a disaster. Barring a miraculous turn around in that department next year's team is going to be pretty low on talent.

I don't see the point in another wasted season. Fire him now, get ahead of the game.

The real bummer is, without a tournament, it makes targeting an up and coming coach all the harder.

 

[TJ]

He really shouldn't. This is the 4th time in 5 years that they've played well below expectations.

The only thing he has succeeded at in recent years is recruiting and, so far, his 2020 class is a disaster. Barring a miraculous turn around in that department next year's team is going to be pretty low on talent.

I don't see the point in another wasted season. Fire him now, get ahead of the game.

The real bummer is, without a tournament, it makes targeting an up and coming coach all the harder.

With considerable debt in the AD, ABOR contract restrictions, a terrible athletic director, and an impending sanction, it’s going to be challenging to find a great coach at this time. The Arizona brand still carries weight, but it’s hard to overcome the aforementioned obstacles. I think once the dust settles w/r/t the NCAA stuff, you start to look around.

 

[1Sun]

With considerable debt in the AD, ABOR contract restrictions, a terrible athletic director, and an impending sanction, it’s going to be challenging to find a great coach at this time. The Arizona brand still carries weight, but it’s hard to overcome the aforementioned obstacles. I think once the dust settles w/r/t the NCAA stuff, you start to look around.

How about a deal with the NCAA? Abandon the Pac 12 regular season and tournament championship from 2017-18, fire Miller, and lose a scholarship in exchange for the investigation of the program going away.

 

[TJ]

How about a deal with the NCAA? Abandon the Pac 12 regular season and tournament championship from 2017-18, fire Miller, and lose a scholarship in exchange for the investigation of the program going away.

Never self-sanction.

 

[1Sun]

Never self-sanction.

Not talking about a self sanction. I am talking about a negotiated consent decree. Operates like a settlement agreement.

 

[GatorAZ]

There were some dark times between the Illinois game and the D-Will era. We’ll get thru it.

 

[TJ]

Not talking about a self sanction. I am talking about a negotiated consent decree. Operates like a settlement agreement.

Splitting hairs. Let the NCAA send over the NOA first and see what they’re going to attempt to do to the school.

I know for a fact that any attempt by the NCAA to give Arizona a post season ban would be met with a lawsuit, and I’d venture to guess we wouldn’t be the only school up the NCAA’s ass in that case. I think Arizona would gladly accept a fine, lost scholarship and/or small suspension for Sean Miller.

As for Miller’s fate, we can bitch and moan about him, but he’s getting another year regardless.

 

[1Sun]

Splitting hairs. Let the NCAA send over the NOA first and see what they’re going to attempt to do to the school.

I know for a fact that any attempt by the NCAA to give Arizona a post season ban would be met with a lawsuit, and I’d venture to guess we wouldn’t be the only school up the NCAA’s ass in that case. I think Arizona would gladly accept a fine, lost scholarship and/or small suspension for Sean Miller.

As for Miller’s fate, we can bitch and moan about him, but he’s getting another year regardless.

He doesn't deserve it. In fact, he has had at least two years too many.

 

[Russ Smith]

Splitting hairs. Let the NCAA send over the NOA first and see what they’re going to attempt to do to the school.

I know for a fact that any attempt by the NCAA to give Arizona a post season ban would be met with a lawsuit, and I’d venture to guess we wouldn’t be the only school up the NCAA’s ass in that case. I think Arizona would gladly accept a fine, lost scholarship and/or small suspension for Sean Miller.

As for Miller’s fate, we can bitch and moan about him, but he’s getting another year regardless.

Depends on how extensive the unheard tapes from the HBO documentary are. Story is out today, on yahoo, 2 hours on Dawkins. the story at one point sounds good for Miller, he's talking about Naz Reid and says we aren't recruiting him he's just using us to try and get more money from LSU, we've never even talked to him.

But it goes bad at another point where Miller is discussing Nassir Little, asking Dawkins what it's going to take to get him. Dawkins makes it clear at the time we all thought the AAU coach and handler were going to be the key to that recruitment. We know now of course Little and family didn't know what was going on, it was the AAU guys trying to get money. But in the exchange, which the story says is on tape, Miller is told by dawkins that Augustine and another guy "definitely want some ish for themselves"(money) and Miller says does Miami have any advantage on us when it comes to that. Dawkins says what they have is Adidas and Miller acknowledges that.

Hard to read that and not conclude that Dawkins was telling Miller if you want Little he's going to need money, Miller acknowledges that's true and then asks if they can compete with Miami money wise. Again we know that was the AAU coach BS ing, but Dawkins makes it clear when this recording happened, he didn't know that, Miller didn't know that either.

Then they apparently play video of Miller at press conferences denying ever breaking NCAA rules, and Dawkins then says Miller should be an actor, needs his own agent he's such a good actor. They ask him so he was lying then, and Dawkins says yes, totally lying.

The end of the article is Dawkins talking about how impressed he is with Will Wade, how Wade was making ridiculous money offers to recruits, it became public, and yet he still somehow got to keep his job.

If the film is what Yahoo is claiming, I'd say both Miller and Wade might be looking for new jobs.

Supposed to air March 31st.

 

[1Sun]

Depends on how extensive the unheard tapes from the HBO documentary are. Story is out today, on yahoo, 2 hours on Dawkins. the story at one point sounds good for Miller, he's talking about Naz Reid and says we aren't recruiting him he's just using us to try and get more money from LSU, we've never even talked to him.

But it goes bad at another point where Miller is discussing Nassir Little, asking Dawkins what it's going to take to get him. Dawkins makes it clear at the time we all thought the AAU coach and handler were going to be the key to that recruitment. We know now of course Little and family didn't know what was going on, it was the AAU guys trying to get money. But in the exchange, which the story says is on tape, Miller is told by dawkins that Augustine and another guy "definitely want some ish for themselves"(money) and Miller says does Miami have any advantage on us when it comes to that. Dawkins says what they have is Adidas and Miller acknowledges that.

Hard to read that and not conclude that Dawkins was telling Miller if you want Little he's going to need money, Miller acknowledges that's true and then asks if they can compete with Miami money wise. Again we know that was the AAU coach BS ing, but Dawkins makes it clear when this recording happened, he didn't know that, Miller didn't know that either.

Then they apparently play video of Miller at press conferences denying ever breaking NCAA rules, and Dawkins then says Miller should be an actor, needs his own agent he's such a good actor. They ask him so he was lying then, and Dawkins says yes, totally lying.

The end of the article is Dawkins talking about how impressed he is with Will Wade, how Wade was making ridiculous money offers to recruits, it became public, and yet he still somehow got to keep his job.

If the film is what Yahoo is claiming, I'd say both Miller and Wade might be looking for new jobs.

Supposed to air March 31st.

Admittedly, I liked the Sean Miller hire when it was made, but boy did he turn out to be a disaster.

 

[GatorAZ]

Dawkins is getting his 5 min of fame and then some.

 

[TJ]

Nothing to see here. More of the same nonsense. Wake me when the NOA arrives

You must be registered for see images attach

 

[GatorAZ]

Nothing to see here. More of the same nonsense. Wake me when the NOA arrives

You must be registered for see images attach

The phone calls in the film reveal Miller to be a coach who is no dummy to the nature of the pay-for-play game -- who is engaging in a back-and-forth with Dawkins -- but at no point does he say anything that would constitute an NCAA violation and at no point does he even explicitly indicate Arizona has or is willing to pay to get players.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/new-hbo-doc-provides-audio-of-will-wade-sean-miller-talking-about-pay-for-play-schemes-in-college-basketbal

 

[1Sun]

Even still, Miller has tainted our program, and his teams have been underachieving, which means he is no longer worth the headache, particularly given that he has also proved to be somewhat of a jerk.

 

[Russ Smith]

The phone calls in the film reveal Miller to be a coach who is no dummy to the nature of the pay-for-play game -- who is engaging in a back-and-forth with Dawkins -- but at no point does he say anything that would constitute an NCAA violation and at no point does he even explicitly indicate Arizona has or is willing to pay to get players.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-basketball/news/new-hbo-doc-provides-audio-of-will-wade-sean-miller-talking-about-pay-for-play-schemes-in-college-basketbal

It just comes down to what the NCAA, and the school require as proof. Any reasonable person who follows college hoops knows kids and or their families get money. And anybody reading that stuff knows Dawkins and Miller and Dawkins and Wade are talking about money. Wade is more direct(stupider). We all knw by now Little wasn't actually involved and the family wasn't asking for money, the AAU guy was. But At the time of this call Dawkins is really clear, we did not know that, we thought Augustine was the key guy in getting Little and it's clear from the conversation Miller doesn't seem to have any issue with that notion he's simply worried is Adidas going to pay more. IF you're the NCAA your argument is simple, there' s a reason Naz Reid's people claimed ARizona was interested when they wanted a bigger offer from LSU, they knew they had to pick a school that Will Wade would believe was involved in getting money for kids via shoe companies, and they picked Arizona. There's a reason the FBI asked Dawkins to set up Pitino and Miller, they were the biggest names involved, and they believed both coaches would in fact hang themselves if given enough rope. is that an NCAA violation no, is it enough for LSU and ARizona to fire their coach absolutely, just depends if they choose to or not.

DAWKINS: They definitely want to get some [expletive] for themselves because they have been taking care of this kid.

MILLER: Miami doesn't have an advantage over us in that area, do they?

DAWKINS: Well, I'll say this, what Miami does have is Adidas.

MILLER: Right.

 

[1Sun]

It just comes down to what the NCAA, and the school require as proof. Any reasonable person who follows college hoops knows kids and or their families get money. And anybody reading that stuff knows Dawkins and Miller and Dawkins and Wade are talking about money. Wade is more direct(stupider). We all knw by now Little wasn't actually involved and the family wasn't asking for money, the AAU guy was. But At the time of this call Dawkins is really clear, we did not know that, we thought Augustine was the key guy in getting Little and it's clear from the conversation Miller doesn't seem to have any issue with that notion he's simply worried is Adidas going to pay more. IF you're the NCAA your argument is simple, there' s a reason Naz Reid's people claimed ARizona was interested when they wanted a bigger offer from LSU, they knew they had to pick a school that Will Wade would believe was involved in getting money for kids via shoe companies, and they picked Arizona. There's a reason the FBI asked Dawkins to set up Pitino and Miller, they were the biggest names involved, and they believed both coaches would in fact hang themselves if given enough rope. is that an NCAA violation no, is it enough for LSU and ARizona to fire their coach absolutely, just depends if they choose to or not.

DAWKINS: They definitely want to get some [expletive] for themselves because they have been taking care of this kid.

MILLER: Miami doesn't have an advantage over us in that area, do they?

DAWKINS: Well, I'll say this, what Miami does have is Adidas.

MILLER: Right.

Particularly where the product on the floor has been a disaster, anyway...

 

[GatorAZ]

It just comes down to what the NCAA, and the school require as proof. Any reasonable person who follows college hoops knows kids and or their families get money. And anybody reading that stuff knows Dawkins and Miller and Dawkins and Wade are talking about money. Wade is more direct(stupider). We all knw by now Little wasn't actually involved and the family wasn't asking for money, the AAU guy was. But At the time of this call Dawkins is really clear, we did not know that, we thought Augustine was the key guy in getting Little and it's clear from the conversation Miller doesn't seem to have any issue with that notion he's simply worried is Adidas going to pay more. IF you're the NCAA your argument is simple, there' s a reason Naz Reid's people claimed ARizona was interested when they wanted a bigger offer from LSU, they knew they had to pick a school that Will Wade would believe was involved in getting money for kids via shoe companies, and they picked Arizona. There's a reason the FBI asked Dawkins to set up Pitino and Miller, they were the biggest names involved, and they believed both coaches would in fact hang themselves if given enough rope. is that an NCAA violation no, is it enough for LSU and ARizona to fire their coach absolutely, just depends if they choose to or not.

DAWKINS: They definitely want to get some [expletive] for themselves because they have been taking care of this kid.

MILLER: Miami doesn't have an advantage over us in that area, do they?

DAWKINS: Well, I'll say this, what Miami does have is Adidas.

MILLER: Right.

Miller was dumb enough to associate with this joker but smart enough to not put a direct offer on a tape. Dan Wetzel really wants to bury him but it doesn’t look like it happened here.

Will Wade definitely DGAF.

 

[Russ Smith]

Miller was dumb enough to associate with this joker but smart enough to not put a direct offer on a tape. Dan Wetzel really wants to bury him but it doesn’t look like it happened here.

Will Wade definitely DGAF.

I agree this tape doesn't demand Miller be fired, it's not a receipt of payment. But if you're Arizona it's patently obvious that players get paid and that Miller was aware of and discussing players being paid with a guy who was paying them. They have to decide is this enough to fire him. It was for Louisville but then Pitino had been in big trouble not that long before, his leash was very short. LSU hasnt' fired Wade yet, they clearly should he's discussing paying a transfer in the CBS story, and Smart, and we know that Miller certainly believed Reid was being paid to go to LSU and Dawkins did too. Wade is openly talking about it, if LSU doesn't fire him they have no shame at all.

But arizona can't actually see this stuff and say if anybody got paid, Sean didn't know, he clearly did. They can say Sean didn't pay them, or there's no PROOF of a violation, but in the end they have to decide how far they're willing to go to accept that Miller was playing players he knew were being paid.

 

[GatorAZ]

I agree this tape doesn't demand Miller be fired, it's not a receipt of payment. But if you're Arizona it's patently obvious that players get paid and that Miller was aware of and discussing players being paid with a guy who was paying them. They have to decide is this enough to fire him. It was for Louisville but then Pitino had been in big trouble not that long before, his leash was very short. LSU hasnt' fired Wade yet, they clearly should he's discussing paying a transfer in the CBS story, and Smart, and we know that Miller certainly believed Reid was being paid to go to LSU and Dawkins did too. Wade is openly talking about it, if LSU doesn't fire him they have no shame at all.

But arizona can't actually see this stuff and say if anybody got paid, Sean didn't know, he clearly did. They can say Sean didn't pay them, or there's no PROOF of a violation, but in the end they have to decide how far they're willing to go to accept that Miller was playing players he knew were being paid.

Miller told Arizona everything he said to Dawkins. The only surprises to Arizona is what Book said to Dawkins... There is no proof that anyone associated with Arizona paid anyone so I doubt they’ll move on this despite the optics.

 

[Russ Smith]

Miller told Arizona everything he said to Dawkins. The only surprises to Arizona is what Book said to Dawkins... There is no proof that anyone associated with Arizona paid anyone so I doubt they’ll move on this despite the optics.

IF Book lied about players being paid, why did Arizona fire him? If he was telling the truth and guys got paid, then arizona fired Book because of that.

So is the distinction that Book knowingly broke NCAA rules and arizona is not ok with that, but Miller just knew guys were getting paid and was ok with it but not doing it himself? Or are we still supposed to believe Miller didn't know what Book was doing?

 

[GatorAZ]

IF Book lied about players being paid, why did Arizona fire him? If he was telling the truth and guys got paid, then arizona fired Book because of that.

So is the distinction that Book knowingly broke NCAA rules and arizona is not ok with that, but Miller just knew guys were getting paid and was ok with it but not doing it himself? Or are we still supposed to believe Miller didn't know what Book was doing?

Book committed a federal crime. There’s no proof Miller committed an NCAA infraction. Based on Book’s comments to Adam Zaharia after the trial it’s likely he told the NCAA the same thing after the investigation:

Richardson later issued a statement via direct message to Star correspondent Adam Zagoria. It read: “I have no knowledge of Sean Miller paying players or attempting to pay them … I was on trial no one else. Again I apologize to the University of Arizona, President Robbins and the kind and great people of Tucson for this. Thank you Tucson and all the Wildcats across the world!”

https://www.google.com/amp/s/tucson...db224d3c-8873-11e9-a87d-8f03eed70d2b.amp.html

 

[TJ]

Russ, my friend. Just let it go. There's literally nothing we didn't know coming out of the documentary. Just more sensationalized garbage by Dawkins trying to get a payday.

Everyone who's anyone talked to Dawkins, including people from UCLA. This does not affirm one way of the other that pay-for-play was done by anyone.

As has been stated millions of times: The only tangible evidence available against Arizona is Book pocketing money. Everything else is uncorroborated.

 

[Russ Smith]

Russ, my friend. Just let it go. There's literally nothing we didn't know coming out of the documentary. Just more sensationalized garbage by Dawkins trying to get a payday.

Everyone who's anyone talked to Dawkins, including people from UCLA. This does not affirm one way of the other that pay-for-play was done by anyone.

As has been stated millions of times: The only tangible evidence available against Arizona is Book pocketing money. Everything else is uncorroborated.

Do you think DeAndre Ayton, or his handlers, were paid when he was in HS?

If yes do you think Sean Miller knew that?

 

[ozzfloyd]

Do you think DeAndre Ayton, or his handlers, were paid when he was in HS?

If yes do you think Sean Miller knew that?

Does it really matter what anyone thinks here?