Arizona Cardinals offseason thread 2022

[Solar7]

Out of interest where do you think we are worse?

On offense

Hollywood > Kirk
Year 2 Rondale will be better
Everyone > Garcia
Another year of development from Kyler
Another year of development from Kliff
RB room is about the same as last year
TE room is vastly improved on last year

I'm guessing defense is your concern?

Bengals had the 17th ranked D last year and made the SB. There are question marks to be sure, especially on the pass rush. I honestly can't say with confidence either way if it's going to be good or bad. I can see scenarios where guys like Simmons, Collins, Wilson, and Murphy step up and one of the rookie edges catches fire. I can also see inexperience and pressure making them crumble and being poor as a group. It's going to be interesting to see.

I would say it's a young D and that excites me. Budda is the oldest starting none D line player at 26. Collins, Simmons, Thompson, Budda, Wilson, Murphy all have a bunch of potential. Add in the rookies at Edge. Allen, Fotu, Dogbe, Lawrence. I think Golden and Watt are the only expected starters over 30 and Budda at 26 is he 3rd oldest starter on D.

I can't remember us having such a young defense maybe ever.

It's a late night for me, so bear with me, but let me do my best...

I agree that Hollywood is better than Kirk and will have more chemistry with Kyler, but we're stuck without DHop for a bad stretch. If both were on the field, that'd be exciting, but I'm expecting a lot of forced throws.

Rondale... I hope, but the knock on that guy has been his injury history, and he didn't really show us that his height and history isn't an issue. Short guys throwing to short guys isn't that appealing.

The OL is... dicey. Garcia sucked, but I still don't see it as a strength.

I believe Kyler would develop better under a coach who didn't baby him, and I still believe he's our version of Jameis Winston - tantalizing talent that won't ever really realize it. (Sorry for the the alliteration.)

Kliff doesn't develop in my opinion. One day, away from us, he'll be a solid OC for some other team. In the meantime, he's too focused on being coach cool. The funny thing is, I act like Kliff at work, and my buddies are shocked I don't like the guy, but I don't think he's set to coach an NFL team. I can recognize when leadership styles don't work, and I feel like Kliff is simping for Kyler like a girlfriend he could never get, so Kyler never gets any pushback.

The RB room is actually interesting, signing Williams was interesting, and my favorite move of the offseason. I still think Conner is pretty pedestrian, but he played better than I thought he would. I'm an ASU guy, so I really hope Eno Benjamin can provide some burst. Our backfield feels heavy and slow, which makes me worry that Kyler's going to be our number one running threat. Frankly, I never thought Chase Edmonds was all that valuable, so we'll see. I wanted to draft an RB earlier over the past few years, and I know that's controversial, but I feel like we have some slower guys with lesser talent. The stats mostly show that after the 3rd round, RBs aren't great.

TE might be the best it's been since the team has been in Arizona. I mean... what's the competition, Freddie Jones? We're the deepest we've been besides the time Jim Dray played every position and got MVP.

God, what a long post - I haven't even gotten to the defense. I loved drafting Simmons, I thought Collins was a poor pick, and I think they mostly stink. Byron Murphy being our #1 CB is just terrible. I think our D is just garbage. At least I like Budda, he's actually my favorite player on the team.

Also, I'm gonna be in the UK next week, in the Milton Keynes area with some friends. If you happen to be north of London and want a pint or something, shoot me a PM. We don't have any major plans until I head off to Venice on the 27th/28th, so I'd gladly buy you a beer.

 

[BritCard]

It's a late night for me, so bear with me, but let me do my best...

I agree that Hollywood is better than Kirk and will have more chemistry with Kyler, but we're stuck without DHop for a bad stretch. If both were on the field, that'd be exciting, but I'm expecting a lot of forced throws.

Rondale... I hope, but the knock on that guy has been his injury history, and he didn't really show us that his height and history isn't an issue. Short guys throwing to short guys isn't that appealing.

The OL is... dicey. Garcia sucked, but I still don't see it as a strength.

I believe Kyler would develop better under a coach who didn't baby him, and I still believe he's our version of Jameis Winston - tantalizing talent that won't ever really realize it. (Sorry for the the alliteration.)

Kliff doesn't develop in my opinion. One day, away from us, he'll be a solid OC for some other team. In the meantime, he's too focused on being coach cool. The funny thing is, I act like Kliff at work, and my buddies are shocked I don't like the guy, but I don't think he's set to coach an NFL team. I can recognize when leadership styles don't work, and I feel like Kliff is simping for Kyler like a girlfriend he could never get, so Kyler never gets any pushback.

The RB room is actually interesting, signing Williams was interesting, and my favorite move of the offseason. I still think Conner is pretty pedestrian, but he played better than I thought he would. I'm an ASU guy, so I really hope Eno Benjamin can provide some burst. Our backfield feels heavy and slow, which makes me worry that Kyler's going to be our number one running threat. Frankly, I never thought Chase Edmonds was all that valuable, so we'll see. I wanted to draft an RB earlier over the past few years, and I know that's controversial, but I feel like we have some slower guys with lesser talent. The stats mostly show that after the 3rd round, RBs aren't great.

TE might be the best it's been since the team has been in Arizona. I mean... what's the competition, Freddie Jones? We're the deepest we've been besides the time Jim Dray played every position and got MVP.

God, what a long post - I haven't even gotten to the defense. I loved drafting Simmons, I thought Collins was a poor pick, and I think they mostly stink. Byron Murphy being our #1 CB is just terrible. I think our D is just garbage. At least I like Budda, he's actually my favorite player on the team.

Also, I'm gonna be in the UK next week, in the Milton Keynes area with some friends. If you happen to be north of London and want a pint or something, shoot me a PM. We don't have any major plans until I head off to Venice on the 27th/28th, so I'd gladly buy you a beer.

I don't know what to think of the defense. I don't think many of us had great feelings about the D last offseason yet they finished 6th vs DVOA.

There is a universe where this is a young, quick versatile defense. Collins and Simmons are both freaks who can do everything. Budda and Thompson can move around. Watt can play inside and out. Cam Thomas can likely to the same. Sanders has speed off the edge. There's a world where this is a varied, confusing defense for teams to handle.

There's also a world where all that goes wrong and it's garbage. It's going to be interesting.

Sadly next week is the first week of school holidays and we are off to Yorkshire to visit my folks (who are from Manchester but recently moved to York). But thanks for the offer and enjoy your trip!

Good luck with your flights because airports are nuts at the moment. If you can I'd consider flying direct to Venice. London airports have been cancelling flights like crazy.

 

[Stout]

I don't know what to think of the defense. I don't think many of us had great feelings about the D last offseason yet they finished 6th vs DVOA.

There is a universe where this is a young, quick versatile defense. Collins and Simmons are both freaks who can do everything. Budda and Thompson can move around. Watt can play inside and out. Cam Thomas can likely to the same. Sanders has speed off the edge. There's a world where this is a varied, confusing defense for teams to handle.

There's also a world where all that goes wrong and it's garbage. It's going to be interesting.

Sadly next week is the first week of school holidays and we are off to Yorkshire to visit my folks (who are from Manchester but recently moved to York). But thanks for the offer and enjoy your trip!

Good luck with your flights because airports are nuts at the moment. If you can I'd consider flying direct to Venice. London airports have been cancelling flights like crazy.

Yes, and that world is called fantasyland lol Everything, and I mean everything, would have to go perfectly for this. We still would suck versus the run, though. So even fantasyland isn't utopia.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Yes, and that world is called fantasyland lol Everything, and I mean everything, would have to go perfectly for this. We still would suck versus the run, though. So even fantasyland isn't utopia.

It's not that crazy. It's hoping that players meet the potential that got them drafted high.

This isn't 2002 Cardinals fans hoping Bryan Gilmore becomes a good starting WR. Collins and Simmons were both high picks. The Cardinals have a ton of options at EDGE...including three players who have put up sack numbers before (Golden, Kennard, and Gardeck) and young guys with potential. The cupboard isn't completely bare.

 

[DVontel]

Last two pages are hilarious.

 

[BritCard]

Last two pages are hilarious.

To be fair, you think anything remotely positive is hilarious.

 

[Krangodnzr]

To be fair, you think anything remotely positive is hilarious.

I mean, enthusiasm should be tempered a bit because of the suspension of DHop and loss of Jones...but this IS a team that won 11 games last year. The vast majority of the team is returning, and the draft class and free agent class wasn't bad.

We can reasonably expect improvement from within. Young defense, young QB, lots of playmakers. The doom and gloom is slightly ridiculous, but I could see a team almost as good as last year's squad that only wins nine games because of the tough schedule. I could also see a 12 win squad too.

 

[Chopper0080]

Last two pages are hilarious.

Legitimately the NFC is bad and should give people a little hope. Not much margin for error but we play two games vs Drew Lock and Jimmy G/Trey Lance. Mayfield, Mariota, Hurts, Cousins, and Winston. So 9 games with a clear QB advantage. I would include the Pats but Belichick has been able to frustrate Kyler. Shanahan is the will card above as he gets the most out of his team but I tend to not count on Jimmy G to stay healthy.

Thin path but still one.

 

[PACardsFan]

I mean, enthusiasm should be tempered a bit because of the suspension of DHop and loss of Jones...but this IS a team that won 11 games last year. The vast majority of the team is returning, and the draft class and free agent class wasn't bad.

We can reasonably expect improvement from within. Young defense, young QB, lots of playmakers. The doom and gloom is slightly ridiculous, but I could see a team almost as good as last year's squad that only wins nine games because of the tough schedule. I could also see a 12 win squad too.

Agree. As far as the schedule is concerned, yes, on paper it looks brutal. But haven't we learned by now that you can't determine how tough a schedule is until the season actually starts? And I don't doubt for a second that Keim will be making more additions to this team before the opening bell. The SB is in AZ this year & I can't imagine that Michael won't give Keim the go ahead to pull out all stops to give us a chance to be in it.

 

[Stout]

It's not that crazy. It's hoping that players meet the potential that got them drafted high.

This isn't 2002 Cardinals fans hoping Bryan Gilmore becomes a good starting WR. Collins and Simmons were both high picks. The Cardinals have a ton of options at EDGE...including three players who have put up sack numbers before (Golden, Kennard, and Gardeck) and young guys with potential. The cupboard isn't completely bare.

Those players would have to immediately meet top-end, ceiling expectations from day 1 for the above scenario to pay off. I have serious doubts that can happen. There are chances, but history is by far against it.

 

[football karma]

Out of interest where do you think we are worse?

obvs: the defense has the makings to be a real problem. Feels like the team is counting on 15+ games of a 100% JJ Watt

i think the offense will score enough points to be playoff caliber.

I just dont know if the Cards will be able to stop good offensive teams-- and the schedule is loaded with good offensive teams

 

[kerouac9]

obvs: the defense has the makings to be a real problem. Feels like the team is counting on 15+ games of a 100% JJ Watt

i think the offense will score enough points to be playoff caliber.

I just dont know if the Cards will be able to stop good offensive teams-- and the schedule is loaded with good offensive teams

I don't think you have to STOP good offensive teams. You just have to keep up with them. I think the most important thing that can happen is for Kyler and Kliff to figure out whatever is going on in the second half of the season so that we're not so defense dependent in the stretch run.

Kliff and Kyler were supposed to come in and make this a Big XII team. We ended up becoming TCU.

 

[football karma]

I don't think you have to STOP good offensive teams. You just have to keep up with them. I think the most important thing that can happen is for Kyler and Kliff to figure out whatever is going on in the second half of the season so that we're not so defense dependent in the stretch run.

i agree with this

as long as the D is no worse that the #12-#20 or so middle class -- i think they will be fine

they just cant be #31 (like their ranking over the last 8 weeks of last year).

 

[Ronin]

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[BritCard]

Legitimately the NFC is bad and should give people a little hope. Not much margin for error but we play two games vs Drew Lock and Jimmy G/Trey Lance. Mayfield, Mariota, Hurts, Cousins, and Winston. So 9 games with a clear QB advantage. I would include the Pats but Belichick has been able to frustrate Kyler. Shanahan is the will card above as he gets the most out of his team but I tend to not count on Jimmy G to stay healthy.

Thin path but still one.

This.

I'm looking at the teams we are likely competing with for playoff spots.

Cowboys, Eagles
Packers/Vikings
Bucs
Cards/Rams/49ers

Those are the 8 it seems will be vying for 7 spots. I feel like we are better than the Niners and Vikings for sure. Green Bay took a step back and we should have beat them last year. We beat the Cowboys last year. Eagles for all they added still have Hurts at QB and an inexperienced HC.

Even right now we might be anywhere between 3-5 in the NFC if we don't shoot ourselves in the foot. It's not like all these other fan bases aren't looking at their rosters and worrying about similar holes in their roster.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

The SB is in AZ this year & I can't imagine that Michael won't give Keim the go ahead to pull out all stops to give us a chance to be in it.

Uh, the time to pull out all the spots came and went! We had plenty of opportunity to restructure deals and make moves to compete in the last year of our QB's rookie deal. Keim and co decided to party and work on their abs, and sat on their hands the entire offseason.

I don't know how anyone could watch the team at the end of the year and think that a few minor tweaks will be the difference at this point. We had some major holes to fill,(created our own!) and the solutions to filling those holes have been incredibly underwhelming or utterly hopeful.

With Hop out, few improvements and some obvious downgrades, our best hope at this point is a down NFC. I hope at some point we have an owner that is committed to winning.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'm inland OC (Rancho Santa Margarita) and we definitely have A/C and glad for it.

That’s a different world.

 

[football karma]

Legitimately the NFC is bad and should give people a little hope

i agree with this too. It helps that in the NFC, K1 is probably no worse than 5th overall in QB rankings (Rogers, Brady, Stafford, Dak......) and its a QB driven league.

Of last year's playoff teams:

SF has a gigantic variance in potential outcomes due to Trey Lance.
Curious to see what GB and Tampa look like with all the changes --
Philly should be better, Dallas should be....?

also: what non playoff team is ready to move up? New Orleans and Minnesota are the only two I could make a case for.

 

[BullheadCardFan]

Egads, I would die without AC in So Cal.

It got 122 where I live last week

Mandatory to have AC here

 

[BullheadCardFan]

NFL odds: Every team's 2022 Super Bowl odds​

13. Arizona Cardinals: +3500 (bet $10 to win $360 total)

The schedule is rugged, DeAndre Hopkins' six-game suspension stings and Kyler Murray doesn’t have a playoff win yet. The Cards would need to catch some big breaks to win the title.

NFL odds: Every team's 2022 Super Bowl odds, from worst to best bets | FOX Sports

With Week 1 approaching, Jason McIntyre ranks the Super Bowl odds for all 32 NFL teams from worst to best. Read his breakdown.

www.foxsports.com

 

[slanidrac16]

Out of interest where do you think we are worse?

For me,

On offense

Hollywood > Kirk
Year 2 Rondale will be better
Everyone > Garcia
Another year of development from Kyler
Another year of development from Kliff
RB room is about the same as last year
TE room is vastly improved on last year

I'm guessing defense is your concern?

Bengals had the 17th ranked D last year (19th in DVOA) and made the SB. There are question marks to be sure, especially on the pass rush. I honestly can't say with confidence either way if it's going to be good or bad. I can see scenarios where guys like Simmons, Collins, Wilson, and Murphy step up and one of the rookie edges catches fire. I can also see inexperience and pressure making them crumble and being poor as a group. It's going to be interesting to see.

I would say it's a young D and that excites me. Budda is the oldest starting none D line player at 26. Collins, Simmons, Thompson, Budda, Wilson, Murphy all have a bunch of potential. Add in the rookies at Edge. Allen, Fotu, Dogbe, Lawrence. I think Golden and Watt are the only expected starters over 30 and Budda at 26 is he 3rd oldest starter on D.

I can't remember us having such a young defense maybe ever.

I’ll chime in.
No Hopkins for 6 games.
TE better? A rookie over Williams who might not be back this year.
The OL is no better until proven otherwise.
We are automatically going to say Eno is going to replace Edmonds?
Defense.
Where is the pass rush coming from? With no pass rush our corners are going to be exposed.
Are we to assume we will suddenly be able to stop the run?
Schedule.
7 wins max… maybe.

 

[kerouac9]

also: what non playoff team is ready to move up? New Orleans and Minnesota are the only two I could make a case for.

Don't sleep on Detroit.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Those players would have to immediately meet top-end, ceiling expectations from day 1 for the above scenario to pay off. I have serious doubts that can happen. There are chances, but history is by far against it.

That's not even really true at all.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Out of interest where do you think we are worse?

For me,

On offense

Hollywood > Kirk
Year 2 Rondale will be better
Everyone > Garcia
Another year of development from Kyler
Another year of development from Kliff
RB room is about the same as last year
TE room is vastly improved on last year

I'm guessing defense is your concern?

Bengals had the 17th ranked D last year (19th in DVOA) and made the SB. There are question marks to be sure, especially on the pass rush. I honestly can't say with confidence either way if it's going to be good or bad. I can see scenarios where guys like Simmons, Collins, Wilson, and Murphy step up and one of the rookie edges catches fire. I can also see inexperience and pressure making them crumble and being poor as a group. It's going to be interesting to see.

I would say it's a young D and that excites me. Budda is the oldest starting none D line player at 26. Collins, Simmons, Thompson, Budda, Wilson, Murphy all have a bunch of potential. Add in the rookies at Edge. Allen, Fotu, Dogbe, Lawrence. I think Golden and Watt are the only expected starters over 30 and Budda at 26 is he 3rd oldest starter on D.

I can't remember us having such a young defense maybe ever.

I think this is generally fair, if not imbalanced and a bit myopic. I am neither optimistic nor pessimistic about this year. But I try to see both sides. For instance you list the upsides but completely ignore the downsides.

I think the entire nfl would rate move from Edmonds to Williams/Benjamin/ward as a big downgrade.

You list an additional year of experience for the young guys as pluses but ignore the plethora of old guys being a year older (watt, green, Hudson, pugh, beachum, ertz) which may not have as big a leap back as the young guys have a leap forward, but Father Time always wins and each year has an impact.

Other than watt our young slime really is unimpressive with a couple years under their belts now.

And we don’t have a cb with experience like we did with Alford, who despite getting hurt again, provided really strong, surprising, play all season.

And a little thing called hop missing 35% of the season.

 

[BritCard]

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