Arrington

[Grand Canon]

Whats sad to see is that Barber ran so well against the Cards... I loved him in college- the rap on him was speed- but it seems he hits the holes hard and before you say a least he had a hole - I saw a couple of plays where JJ just doesnt seem to run hard to get to the hole-
I guess the ESPN insider is right JJ has no heart- I love players who have chips on their shoulder like Barber- he thought he should have been taken higher... Shipp runs the same way- but Shipp must run a 4.9 40 yrd dash

 

[joko4]

This one is simple. You see, if Arrington was on the Dallas team last week, he would have looked as good as Barber, or most likely even better. See it's very
simple, are problem lies in the OL. S I M P L E !

YOU CAN'T HAVE A OFFENSE WITHOUT A O-LINE.

YOU cAN'T HAVE A DEFENSE WITHOUT A D-LINE.

 

[BigRedMO]

I heard the same things about Thomas Jones and countless other Cardinals running backs. Seems Jones is doing very well hitting holes now. Arrington will leave and become a good back for somebody else. You cant hit a hole if there is no hole. I dont think any judgements should be made about Arrington this year. I dont even know who the backs coach is regretably but I woud like to see a proven Cardinal star fill that job. Somebody like Ottis Anderson or Stump Mitchell. I know where Mitchell is at but have no idea what Anderson is doing. Like I said I dont know who current backs coach is but I know Anderson and Mitchell know about hitting holes and running hard. The oline is a disaster. It is not even NFL caliber. If he is sent packing it is another high draft pick wasted. You cant waste high picks if you expect to put a winning team on the field.

 

[Russ Smith]

My friend a Cowboy fan taped the game and gave it to me Sunday evening. I watched the first half including 3 JJ carries last night at halftime of the MNF game. I only watched us on offense.

The first carry I think he was supposed to go left, except Roy Williams run blitzed and was basically untouched so he cut it up the gut to avoid getting his head taken off and got no gain. Not slow at all there, it was essentially identical to the first play of the game where Roy stuffed Shipp for no gain, except JJ tried to make a cut but Roy still got him so he covered up to protect the ball.

2nd carry was the one where Baxter got blown up trying to lead block for JJ going left, JJ dove forward for 3 yards, and Baxter came out of the game woozy, think he got his bell rung. Considering Baxter didn't get the block JJ did well to get 3.

3rd carry was a play supposed to go left, JJ saw nothing there, tried to cut it back right and got 2 yards before the backside DE completely unblocked got him, think it was Spears. Not sure if it was Brown or Wakefield that chose to not block the DE but if they had there might have been a decent cutback lane for JJ there.

The only other action he got that I saw in the first half was a 8 yard pass and he was almost stopped when he caught that ball so he did well to get 8 yards.

He had only 1 carry in the 2nd half but I only fast forwarded through the first half so I haven't watched the 2nd half and to be honest I hate watching tapes of games I know the outcome of so I probably won't watch it.


I will say this, the 2nd play of the game Shipp got 12, the hole there was big, HUGE for us, JJ probably would have gotten a lot more than 12 it took SHipp too long to get through the hole he actually had to carry the safety for another yard or 2 at the end.

I was surprised Shipp got all the work the last 2 drives of the game with the game all but over, did JJ get his bell rung on the draw play(his 4th carry which I haven't seen yet)? That was his last carry of the game, I don't know if was in after that or not. Seems logical they would have played JJ the last 2 drives but they didn't.

 

[Russ Smith]

I heard the same things about Thomas Jones and countless other Cardinals running backs. Seems Jones is doing very well hitting holes now. Arrington will leave and become a good back for somebody else. You cant hit a hole if there is no hole. I dont think any judgements should be made about Arrington this year. I dont even know who the backs coach is regretably but I woud like to see a proven Cardinal star fill that job. Somebody like Ottis Anderson or Stump Mitchell. I know where Mitchell is at but have no idea what Anderson is doing. Like I said I dont know who current backs coach is but I know Anderson and Mitchell know about hitting holes and running hard. The oline is a disaster. It is not even NFL caliber. If he is sent packing it is another high draft pick wasted. You cant waste high picks if you expect to put a winning team on the field.

Kirby Wilson is the RB coach and he actually has a decent resume, coached RB's for new england 97-99, Washington 2000, WR's at USC in 2001 and then RB's again With Tampa Bay 2002-03. So while none of those teams were great run teams under him, he's not completely inexperienced.

 

[john h]

This one is simple. You see, if Arrington was on the Dallas team last week, he would have looked as good as Barber, or most likely even better. See it's very
simple, are problem lies in the OL. S I M P L E !

YOU CAN'T HAVE A OFFENSE WITHOUT A O-LINE.

YOU cAN'T HAVE A DEFENSE WITHOUT A D-LINE.

Since Arrington has never had a good game in the NFL no one really know just how good or bad he woud be with anyone's line. He could still be lousy with a good line. Even with our line you would think he would accidently have an 100 yard game. To make the jump he would be good with a good line is a mighty big jump in the NFL. There have been many a running back who looked good in college but were total bust in the NFL and it had nothing to do with the lines. There have also been a lot of low draft choice running backs who made it big.

 

[john h]

I heard the same things about Thomas Jones and countless other Cardinals running backs. Seems Jones is doing very well hitting holes now. Arrington will leave and become a good back for somebody else. You cant hit a hole if there is no hole. I dont think any judgements should be made about Arrington this year. I dont even know who the backs coach is regretably but I woud like to see a proven Cardinal star fill that job. Somebody like Ottis Anderson or Stump Mitchell. I know where Mitchell is at but have no idea what Anderson is doing. Like I said I dont know who current backs coach is but I know Anderson and Mitchell know about hitting holes and running hard. The oline is a disaster. It is not even NFL caliber. If he is sent packing it is another high draft pick wasted. You cant waste high picks if you expect to put a winning team on the field.

Why are so many people sure Arrington will be a good running back? He was passed over by a lot of people who make a living judging running backs. They must know somehthing.

 

[john h]

Kirby Wilson is the RB coach and he actually has a decent resume, coached RB's for new england 97-99, Washington 2000, WR's at USC in 2001 and then RB's again With Tampa Bay 2002-03. So while none of those teams were great run teams under him, he's not completely inexperienced.

Our coaches see JJ every day. They must have some reason for not running him very much aside from he is not gaining any yardage.

 

[Russ Smith]

Why are so many people sure Arrington will be a good running back? He was passed over by a lot of people who make a living judging running backs. They must know somehthing.

Actually he was passed over by 3 teams since only 3 teams took RB's ahead of him, the other teams all took players at other positions in the first round and early 2nd. Only 43 players were taken ahead of JJ.

 

[ChandlerCard]

Since Arrington has never had a good game in the NFL no one really know just how good or bad he woud be with anyone's line. He could still be lousy with a good line. Even with our line you would think he would accidently have an 100 yard game. To make the jump he would be good with a good line is a mighty big jump in the NFL. There have been many a running back who looked good in college but were total bust in the NFL and it had nothing to do with the lines. There have also been a lot of low draft choice running backs who made it big.

The question then becomes, how many RB's have made it big in the NFL working behind consistently pathetic run blocking?

 

[joeshmo]

But he doesnt fumble. Just like college.

 

[Russ Smith]

Since Arrington has never had a good game in the NFL no one really know just how good or bad he woud be with anyone's line. He could still be lousy with a good line. Even with our line you would think he would accidently have an 100 yard game. To make the jump he would be good with a good line is a mighty big jump in the NFL. There have been many a running back who looked good in college but were total bust in the NFL and it had nothing to do with the lines. There have also been a lot of low draft choice running backs who made it big.

True, because every week a handful of RB's "accidentally" get a 100 yard game with 8 or less carries. The kid has 33 carries all year(and well under a 100 yards total admittedly).

Admittedly I didn't do a comprehensive search but I think Tatum Bell with 12 carries has the fewest to get to 100 in a game this year and of course the Broncos had Bell and Anderson BOTH over 100 yards each of the last 2 games, they actually know how to run block.

 

[doctor]

something else to keep in mind..... how many times do you see a back with say 18 carries for 50 or 55 yds or so and then he breaks one for 30 40 or 50 yds..... look at cadillac, some of his best games he had big runs late.... and he gets the rock 20 25 or 30 times.

 

[john h]

True, because every week a handful of RB's "accidentally" get a 100 yard game with 8 or less carries. The kid has 33 carries all year(and well under a 100 yards total admittedly).

Admittedly I didn't do a comprehensive search but I think Tatum Bell with 12 carries has the fewest to get to 100 in a game this year and of course the Broncos had Bell and Anderson BOTH over 100 yards each of the last 2 games, they actually know how to run block.

I have no problem with hoping JJ may be something special but to many people seem sure he is without one shred of evidence. Personally I would like for him to be the next coming of Barry Sanders but one has to believe what he sees and not what he hopes for.

 

[john h]

Actually he was passed over by 3 teams since only 3 teams took RB's ahead of him, the other teams all took players at other positions in the first round and early 2nd. Only 43 players were taken ahead of JJ.

Which brings us to the age old question do you draft the best player available or for need? If you drafted for best player available he is still in the second round. If you draft for need maybe he would have gone higher. All of this is pointless now as he is in the NFL and production is what counts not where you were drafted. If he has a lot of potential then we have a bunch of dumb coaches (real possibility) or they are seeing in practice what we see on the field game day.
In practice he is running with the same Offensive Line against a marginal Defense so he should look decent but they continue to not use him much and he continues to flonder. He is very tentative and does not hit the line with authority. I am begining to wonder about his toughness.

 

[Russ Smith]

I have no problem with hoping JJ may be something special but to many people seem sure he is without one shred of evidence. Personally I would like for him to be the next coming of Barry Sanders but one has to believe what he sees and not what he hopes for.

Yep and I know I for one haven't compared him to Sanders even remotely on this or any other board. The only one who keeps wanting to compare him to hall of famers or guys drafted way ahead of him is you.

 

[Russ Smith]

Which brings us to the age old question do you draft the best player available or for need? If you drafted for best player available he is still in the second round. If you draft for need maybe he would have gone higher. All of this is pointless now as he is in the NFL and production is what counts not where you were drafted. If he has a lot of potential then we have a bunch of dumb coaches (real possibility) or they are seeing in practice what we see on the field game day.
In practice he is running with the same Offensive Line against a marginal Defense so he should look decent but they continue to not use him much and he continues to flonder. He is very tentative and does not hit the line with authority. I am begining to wonder about his toughness.

Well Arrington was the 4th RB drafted this year. Apparently you haven't noticed that the 3rd RB drafted has 24 carries for 33 yards in his last 2 games. That includes a 15 and 12 yard run so he has SIX yards rushing on his other 22 carries. And he sat out 2 games in between those 2 games with injury.

In JJ's last 2 games he has 9 carries for 35 yards. I'd say the first guy is the guy who is floundering right now comparing the 2 in recent weeks.

Arrington had only 4 carries Sunday, I've now watched all 4 and on only one of them can you remotely say he was tentative, and he got 2 yards on that one by cutting back when the first hole wasn't there. On his first carry Williams was runblitzing essentially unblocked, on his 4th carry there were TWO run blitzers essentially unblocked up the middle, forcing him to run outside.

While we're proclaiming rookies busts, I'd say so far the worst pick of the first round would appear to be a WR who on a team desperate for Wr help is not only not starting, but he's about to lose his #3WR job to a guy who was I think a 4th rounder last year. he will be a good player someday but he clearly shouldn't have been picked anywhere near the first round just because he ran a fast 40 at the combine. But it's that age old question do you draft on potential?

 

[chickenhead]

I'm sure a lot of teams didn't look closelay at him because non-USC running backs from the Pac-10 usually get a big asterisk next to them. I still think it was a great pick at #44. If RB was the first priority, we should have traded up.

 

[earthsci]

Which brings us to the age old question do you draft the best player available or for need?

Denny had him targeted before the draft and everyone knew it. Sounds to me like he drafted for both. You have to remember, the best player available doesn't always pan out.

 

[earthsci]

Interesting. The people who pan us releasing Thomas Jones bagging on Arrington.

 

[Southpaw]

Kirby Wilson is the RB coach and he actually has a decent resume, coached RB's for new england 97-99, Washington 2000, WR's at USC in 2001 and then RB's again With Tampa Bay 2002-03. So while none of those teams were great run teams under him, he's not completely inexperienced.

4 teams in 7 years does not speak well for his resume' unless he is a Nomad.

 

[Southpaw]

Well Arrington was the 4th RB drafted this year. Apparently you haven't noticed that the 3rd RB drafted has 24 carries for 33 yards in his last 2 games. That includes a 15 and 12 yard run so he has SIX yards rushing on his other 22 carries. And he sat out 2 games in between those 2 games with injury.

In JJ's last 2 games he has 9 carries for 35 yards. I'd say the first guy is the guy who is floundering right now comparing the 2 in recent weeks.

Arrington had only 4 carries Sunday, I've now watched all 4 and on only one of them can you remotely say he was tentative, and he got 2 yards on that one by cutting back when the first hole wasn't there. On his first carry Williams was runblitzing essentially unblocked, on his 4th carry there were TWO run blitzers essentially unblocked up the middle, forcing him to run outside.

While we're proclaiming rookies busts, I'd say so far the worst pick of the first round would appear to be a WR who on a team desperate for Wr help is not only not starting, but he's about to lose his #3WR job to a guy who was I think a 4th rounder last year. he will be a good player someday but he clearly shouldn't have been picked anywhere near the first round just because he ran a fast 40 at the combine. But it's that age old question do you draft on potential?

Geez Russ, I thought I was bad promoting U of M players.

Cal is a great team to watch on the college level. Tedford system players haven't translated well so far. Kinda like Texas Tech, who I also love to watch. J J Arrungton may just be one of those.

 

[seesred]

My take on JJ is that the coaches are not giving him a fair chance at the position. A back needs to have 20-25 carries a game. You can't judge the other side of the ball or see the speed of the game carring 3-4 times per game. JJ has shown flashes of what he truly can be a very good NFL back. All the great backs Sanders, Smith etc had their touches. Somewhere in the game they would break that 25-30 yarder that would make them a 100 yards plus in the game. They were threats and had to be played as such. There is no team afraid of our backs (offensive line), and one of the reasons is they know they aren't running that much. Just the start of the game. If they see JJ they know he is going to run off tackle and then be gone fdor the game.

GIVE THE KID A CHANCE TO PLAY! That is the only way anyone will know if his 2000 yard season was just a college thing or that he is a solid running back in the NFL>

GBR
40

 

[Russ Smith]

Geez Russ, I thought I was bad promoting U of M players.

Cal is a great team to watch on the college level. Tedford system players haven't translated well so far. Kinda like Texas Tech, who I also love to watch. J J Arrungton may just be one of those.

Hey I'm just laying out the facts for John, I didn't promote JJ at all in that post I was merely comparing his recent stats to that of the 3rd RB taken, and then pointing out that as far as bad picks go one could argue that the biggest reach of the draft was a WR who'd never played the position in the first round by a team desperate for WR help. You'd think that guy in that situation would have accidentally gotten 100 yards receiving in at least one game this year but so far his game high is 38 yards and he's about to be demoted from #3 to #4WR because the coaches say he keeps running the wrong routes and is killing them when teams blitz because he can't make the correct route adjustments.

As for Cal players under Tedford how many guys are we talking about? Boller was basically the first guy Tedford put in the NFL from Cal and I knew he was going to be a bust from day 1, wrote that here repeatedly. Rodgers is behind Favre, we have no idea how he's going to pan out, and JJ has had more than 5 carries in only 2 games, clearly he's off to a slow start, a terribly slow start, but it's hard to do much with that amount of carries.

FYI our boy Frank Gore is making a nice impact in SF people are pretty much saying that the resurgence of Barlow is a direct result of Gore playing so well Barlow realized he'd better pick it up. Still scared given his past history with knees but he's one of the few bright spots on that team so far.

 

[earthsci]

GIVE THE KID A CHANCE TO PLAY! That is the only way anyone will know if his 2000 yard season was just a college thing or that he is a solid running back in the NFL>

I agree. There a few like Russ that can tell me a better way to do this but here goes.

Play Arrington exclusively for two games. Yes, use Shipp to spell him, but feature Arrington. Give him the ball at least 25 times. He's only been handed the ball 33 times this year. He has the longest run from the line of scrimmage for the Cardinals this year. Running backs like him need the ball more than four times a game. Find out what we've got.