Artest demands trade

[sunsfn]

If they trade Artest, it will probably be to the Kings.
The Kings have a lot of pieces they can trade, and are not playing at all well.
They need something to happen to get them going. (Other than firing the coach)

Peja for him and the Kings would be the winner, if they can get Artest to behave himself.

I believe a change of address is what Artest needs. But the team that gets him is taking a risk.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Listen I might be the biggest fan of Artest on this board. IMO he is the best player on the Pacers and one of the 20 best in the league. I actually think he is the best two way player in the game as his offensive game does not get the credit he deserves....

Saying that should the Suns bring him in, even at JJax and TE....NO NO NO NO..

This isnt a rotessire team. You cant just bring in a whole mis mash of players and expect to throw them on the floor and have it work out. Even if if he fit in with our floor game, which i imagine he would, its the locker room i worry about...The Suns are the team the are in part of the excellent passing, chemistry and leadership they have. They purposly brought in team first guys who would accept their roles and play as a unit. I think Ron gets a bad wrap, but dude is plain disfunctional. The quotes in this same article are just more of the same. Hes off. He would eventually cause a problem and it would be to the detriment of our team. Lets say hes a little to much thug on a team that is a little more.....rec center in attitude and style.

I wouldnt trade him for Diaw straight up either. And dont think im a homer because of it. Artest is by far the more skilled and better player but he comes with more baggage, a heftier price tage and a few more years. why make that trade? Talent for talent as of now its a no brainer, and most would see us as the winner of that trade. That is until Ron decideds he needs a couple months off during the season or decides that Duncan looked at him funny, knocks him out and gets suspended for the rest of the playoffs.

You see what we are witnessing here is the beginning of the reincarnation of Dennis rodman. Ron is starting to learn that his outlandish image sells much more than his maintaing the company line and im guessing for as good as the guy is, he will be a damn side show in the next two years. We have a team that is talented and cohesivness enough to win it all once we are healthy....The grass is not always greener on the side...lets allow this current team to grow for a few seasons before we blow it up again.

I love Ron, Just not a Sun.......

And anyone who thinks we should take the risk of bringing him in, even for a case of basketballs is not realizing how important locker room harmony is in the NBA.

Two more points: If hes having trouble accepting second tier offensive status behind O'neal, WTF is going to happen when he relaizes hes behind Nash, Amare and even Shawn.

And this isnt the NFL....Cant just cut a guy and lop him off the books if he is too much of a distraction ala T.O.....

Buyer Beware

 

[reader]

Arizona's Finest, could not agree with you more.

Artest is a loose cannon, plain and simple. He pays lip service to his team about how happy he is to be back playing for them, in the next breath he wants a trade.

It really doesn't matter where he ends up, 3 months will go by, he will be on his best behaviour and then, one day, off he goes again. I would not like him on the Suns. You would always be waiting for the other shoe to drop, not sure when, but you know it will happen.

 

[elindholm]

Artest's atttitude is a concern. However, the reports -- which, let's face it, are all that we have to go on -- are not that he's frustrated being the second option behind O'Neal. It's that he isn't getting a chance to be an offensive weapon. There's a big difference. On the Suns, everyone is an offensive weapon.

There might indeed be problems if Artest were brought to Phoenix, but that particular one isn't on the list. He's already said he'd be willing to back up LeBron James, for crying out loud.

 

[hcsilla]

Oh, and he is quite simply the best perimeter defender in the league.

He is the 2nd best, IMO behind Bruce Bowen.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

He is the 2nd best, IMO behind Bruce Bowen.

I don't agree with that. I personally think Bowen is somewhat overrated - especially since he constantly gambles knowing that TD is behind him. Whenever I watch Artest play it doesn't look like he gambles as much to get his presence felt - of course there is no way I can back that up.

Either way, it is pretty close.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Talk about homerism there. Diaw has had maybe 10 good games, and while he looks pretty good - Artest is an animal. He has an amazing offensive game while being reigned in by Carlisle. D'Antoni would give him the freedom to really show what he can do.

Oh, and he is quite simply the best perimeter defender in the league. Hands down.

I figured I'd get that reaction. Listen, he's not getting traded, and he's a complete head case. Don't want him, plain and simple.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

I figured I'd get that reaction. Listen, he's not getting traded, and he's a complete head case. Don't want him, plain and simple.

Well I can at least understand that, and I can definitely see the potential problems from him coming. But talent wise he would be the 4th best player on this team (including Amare), and possibly even the 3rd best....

 

[hcsilla]

I don't agree with that. I personally think Bowen is somewhat overrated - especially since he constantly gambles knowing that TD is behind him.

I don't have the feeling that Bowen gambles that much. I think that his footwork is exceptionally good plus he is very smart to read what his opponent will do.

Artest somehow is more of a big body defender who is even able to guard PF's but he is a bit slower and less unpleasant defender than Bowen, IMO.

 

[JCSunsfan]

He's an incredible talent, but he is wound REALLY tight. Its part of what makes him successful now, but is a formula for disaster. This particular article is a case in point. No communication with mgmt, talks about how his team would be better off without him.

His temper tantrums are legendary--and reckless. Don't forget that image of Artest lounging on the scorers table in Detroit. It essentially took his entire team out of championship contention.

Artest will wig out--its only a matter of time. In the end, he's going to make Dennis Rodman look like Dr. Phil.

I cannot imagine giving up Diaw, Barbosa, and a pick to watch it happen.

 

[boisesuns]

He's an incredible talent, but he is wound REALLY tight. Its part of what makes him successful now, but is a formula for disaster. This particular article is a case in point. No communication with mgmt, talks about how his team would be better off without him.

His temper tantrums are legendary--and reckless. Don't forget that image of Artest lounging on the scorers table in Detroit. It essentially took his entire team out of championship contention.

Artest will wig out--its only a matter of time. In the end, he's going to make Dennis Rodman look like Dr. Phil.

I cannot imagine giving up Diaw, Barbosa, and a pick to watch it happen.

I agree. As basketball player, he would be a great fit for the suns. but there's too much of an unknown with him. If we could set something up to where we didn't lose much and keep him on a short leash, it might be worth it. Playing on this team could do wonders for him and his attitude. That said, it's a huge risk and probably not worth it. If artest magically changes (not likley) it might be worth it.

Amare could smack him around a bunch too.

 

[boisesuns]

Espn is saying artest for Peja rumors....

 

[Yuma]

Wouldn't Artest and Diaw essentially be like having two of the same guy on the court at the same time? Plus Diaw plays center whereas Artest doesn't. Diaw is cheaper, too! In money, time for coaching staff, and headaches...

 

[elindholm]

Wouldn't Artest and Diaw essentially be like having two of the same guy on the court at the same time?

I guess Artest has a point. His reputation as a defensive specialist has caused lots of people to overlook what a potent offensive weapon he is. I like Diaw, but Artest is more of a scorer than Diaw will ever be.

 

[boisesuns]

. I like Diaw, but Artest is more of a scorer than Diaw will ever be.

The suns system did wonders for Joe's shooting, and I hope the can do they same for Diaw. Artst is a great scorer, but Diaw is now in a place to where he can become a good scorer. Better than Artest? It's hard to say. Diaw is not even close right now, but he's got potential.

 

[elindholm]

The suns system did wonders for Joe's shooting

That really isn't true, as many on this board have pointed out. Johnson already had great form and a shooter's mentality. What he lacked was confidence and tons of open space, since his mechanics are on the slow side. But even in the beginning, he shot well from the line, which is often a pretty good indicator of basic shooting potential.

Diaw's form is terrible, he's clumsy from the line, and (most importantly) he doesn't really want to shoot. He can help the team in a lot of other ways, but it's unrealistic to expect his shooting to get better from being in the Suns system.

Contrary to the belief of some on this board (not you necessarily), shooting is a tremendously complicated skill that can't just be worked up in a summer or two, even by an elite NBA athlete. (Stoudemire is in a separate category.) Very few players have significantly improved their shooting once entering the league, and the group includes some of the game's fiercest, most talented competitors. I see no evidence that Diaw is in that category. Artest, on the other hand...

 

[boisesuns]

The suns system did wonders for Joe's shooting

That really isn't true, as many on this board have pointed out. Johnson already had great form and a shooter's mentality. What he lacked was confidence and tons of open space, since his mechanics are on the slow side. But even in the beginning, he shot well from the line, which is often a pretty good indicator of basic shooting potential.

Diaw's form is terrible, he's clumsy from the line, and (most importantly) he doesn't really want to shoot. He can help the team in a lot of other ways, but it's unrealistic to expect his shooting to get better from being in the Suns system.

Contrary to the belief of some on this board (not you necessarily), shooting is a tremendously complicated skill that can't just be worked up in a summer or two, even by an elite NBA athlete. (Stoudemire is in a separate category.) Very few players have significantly improved their shooting once entering the league, and the group includes some of the game's fiercest, most talented competitors. I see no evidence that Diaw is in that category. Artest, on the other hand...

I was refering to the suns system as a whole when referencing Joe's shooting. The system (including the building of confidence) is what helped joe become the shooter he could be.

I agree Diaw has an ugly shot. Barbosa did and still does to some extent but was shooting better this season. Marion's shot is ugly looking and he shoots decent. I'm hoping for the same eventually from Diaw. If there is any place to help with that it is in Phoenix, but I agree it's hard to say if that will ever happen.

 

[Djaughe]

Artest says he wants to be a Knick

Methinks he still wants to pimp his music on a bigger stage.

 

[King A]

what still bugs me a bit, is that the bulls used our pick for artest (longley trade)

 

[boisesuns]

Methinks he still wants to pimp his music on a bigger stage.

 

[hcsilla]

what still bugs me a bit, is that the bulls used our pick for artest (longley trade)

You are wrong here.

The Suns got a 1st rounder in the Longley-trade, didn't give away one.
This trade went down on 20/09/2000 so after the 1999 draft.

This pick finally went to ORL (Penny-trade) and was used on Jeryl Sasser in 2001.

 

[elindholm]

Barbosa did and still does to some extent but was shooting better this season. Marion's shot is ugly looking and he shoots decent.

Barbosa's overall percentage is up because he's doing a better job of getting to the basket. His three-point and FT percentages are the same as they've been.

Marion's percentages have been basically the same throughout his career (with various ups and downs), except for his three-point percentage, which has gone steadily down since '01-'02.

Neither player has improved his shooting as a member of the Suns.

 

[boisesuns]

Barbosa did and still does to some extent but was shooting better this season. Marion's shot is ugly looking and he shoots decent.

Barbosa's overall percentage is up because he's doing a better job of getting to the basket. His three-point and FT percentages are the same as they've been.

Marion's percentages have been basically the same throughout his career (with various ups and downs), except for his three-point percentage, which has gone steadily down since '01-'02.

Neither player has improved his shooting as a member of the Suns.

Stat wise I can see how it doesn't seem like they are "better." To me it seemed like barbosa was shooting better from the outside this year than he has before. I remember he could't hit much from the outside in past year. You're right his percentages are up becuase he's been driving more, but it seem like he's shooting better range wise and with more consistency. Whether that is a product of the suns system, I don't know.

When Marion came into the leauge, didn't he have a problem with longer shots past 15 feet or so? Maybe i'm wrong, but it seems like he's been able get to where he can hit those shots (even if his percentage is down).


I think we all see that Diaw's game would be great if he could hit the jumper better.

Would you make the a trade for Artest?

 

[King A]

You are wrong here.

The Suns got a 1st rounder in the Longley-trade, didn't give away one.
This trade went down on 20/09/2000 so after the 1999 draft.

This pick finally went to ORL (Penny-trade) and was used on Jeryl Sasser in 2001.

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/luc_longley/index.html

according to this, he was traded on 1/23/99 TO the suns for 3 players AND a pick

 

[JCSunsfan]

http://www.nba.com/playerfile/luc_longley/index.html

according to this, he was traded on 1/23/99 TO the suns for 3 players AND a pick

After the historic three-peat, the Bulls moved into rebuilding mode and traded Longley to the Phoenix Suns for Mark Bryant, Martin Muursepp, Bubba Wells and a conditional first-round draft pick on January 23, 1999.

This is correct, King A. Maybe you are thinking of the pick that we got for Luc as part of the trade that sent him to the Knicks.