Article by Harry Greene on Denny Green
- Thread starter Skkorpion
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Harry is the Cardinal voice of Reason.
I agree 100% with his article!
I agree 100% with his article!
kerouac9
Klowned by Keim
I thought that this was the greatest Front Page article that ASFN has ever produced. Well done, Harry, and thanks for the forum for it, Skkorp.
arthurracoon
The Cardinal Smiles
conraddobler
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That was a masterpiece.
I think all of us assumed we just needed better coaching and things would get better.
We have better coaching at the top, the assistants leave a little to be desired but I think Rowen will grow into the job, he's not working with a full deck right now.
We were so untalented before Green got here it wasn't funny.
I think he'll get there but we need a solid QB are real QB and if we had drafted one in year one or two of this effort it would have made more sense to me.
I think all of us assumed we just needed better coaching and things would get better.
We have better coaching at the top, the assistants leave a little to be desired but I think Rowen will grow into the job, he's not working with a full deck right now.
We were so untalented before Green got here it wasn't funny.
I think he'll get there but we need a solid QB are real QB and if we had drafted one in year one or two of this effort it would have made more sense to me.
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While we all know Denny isn't perfect, I love this article so much more than the ones Harry used to have to write when we had Coach Mac...basically there was no hope then
Arizona's Finest
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I think this assessment is dead on but I would add a couple things.
1. Everyone is very upset about the jettisoning Kendall, Clement and to a lesser degree Shelton but I think the point is being missed. While its possible the short term gains might have been more appealing, there is a part of this we are all missing. Those players had losing attitudes. Kendall came from a helpless Seattle franchise where even then he was known as a divisive force and a go his own way type of guy. Shelton and Clement were ingrained with losing from both college and coming to our moribund franchise that its possible they were just past the point of getting them on the same page. You think Denny wanted to get rid of a talented tackle that had just be re-upped? It says to me that there is more to the story and none of those guys ever came across to me as players who did anything but perform to their talent level and collect a paycheck.
Players like Kendall work on a team with an established culture and program that everyone else buys into. But Denny HAD to rid guys who rock the boat. I think it has less to do with his ego (although that plays a part) and more to do with long term transition. It just so happens that the trenches are where good NFL teams make their bread and butter so if you miss on players there (and QB’s) it takes a while to recover. I for one am excited that we have two players who have the talent to step in from day one (Step and Brown) and they will only get better. A season from now we will reap the benefits with the right veteran addition this offseason.
2. The lack of execution is w/o a doubt the biggest problem. I know Denny will not go public with ripping his players and he shouldn’t (see Callahan, Bill) but that’s a direct reflection of coaching. He must maintain their focus and make sure those ridiculous personal foul penalities stop NOW. That’s admitting frustration and then you are already half way to being beat. BIG especially needs to control himself and transfer that bad-ass stare on to some of his line mates who keep letting the team down.
3.Denny’s biggest problem is that he is trying to mix up his philosophy for win now-win later and those decisions almost always conflict. Instead of spending money and getting stop gaps at OLB, FS, RT sign good young players who cost more and fill the next need at a later point. That money should have gone to Hartwell as he would been another young piece to build that defense around. This worries me most about Denny because if we do get an opportunity to get a young franchise QB who might struggle next year, I doubt he signs off on that even though it’s what the team needs. We should have spent this off-season adding a couple more good young pieces FA wise and then ramped up for the season going into the stadium. Those signings seem like mistakes now and worse they are keeping younger players from getting much needed time.
4. I think Teyo Johnson is going to be our TE for a long time. I think someone needs to get in JJ’s face and tell him to hit the freaking hole. I think McCown is the better QB for our team presently constituted. I think the biggest mistake we made this off season was giving money to Huff and Griffith when we could have kept what we had and signed a player who wanted to come here in Hartwell. That guy is a damn wrecking ball. I think that this season could be much like the Bills or Bengals season from a year ago (where we build momentum going into the off season) and I have enough faith in Michael Bidwill and Denny that we will obtain 5 starters from the draft and FA (where I expect us to make a big splash with new revenue coming in from the stadium all ready for next year)
1. Everyone is very upset about the jettisoning Kendall, Clement and to a lesser degree Shelton but I think the point is being missed. While its possible the short term gains might have been more appealing, there is a part of this we are all missing. Those players had losing attitudes. Kendall came from a helpless Seattle franchise where even then he was known as a divisive force and a go his own way type of guy. Shelton and Clement were ingrained with losing from both college and coming to our moribund franchise that its possible they were just past the point of getting them on the same page. You think Denny wanted to get rid of a talented tackle that had just be re-upped? It says to me that there is more to the story and none of those guys ever came across to me as players who did anything but perform to their talent level and collect a paycheck.
Players like Kendall work on a team with an established culture and program that everyone else buys into. But Denny HAD to rid guys who rock the boat. I think it has less to do with his ego (although that plays a part) and more to do with long term transition. It just so happens that the trenches are where good NFL teams make their bread and butter so if you miss on players there (and QB’s) it takes a while to recover. I for one am excited that we have two players who have the talent to step in from day one (Step and Brown) and they will only get better. A season from now we will reap the benefits with the right veteran addition this offseason.
2. The lack of execution is w/o a doubt the biggest problem. I know Denny will not go public with ripping his players and he shouldn’t (see Callahan, Bill) but that’s a direct reflection of coaching. He must maintain their focus and make sure those ridiculous personal foul penalities stop NOW. That’s admitting frustration and then you are already half way to being beat. BIG especially needs to control himself and transfer that bad-ass stare on to some of his line mates who keep letting the team down.
3.Denny’s biggest problem is that he is trying to mix up his philosophy for win now-win later and those decisions almost always conflict. Instead of spending money and getting stop gaps at OLB, FS, RT sign good young players who cost more and fill the next need at a later point. That money should have gone to Hartwell as he would been another young piece to build that defense around. This worries me most about Denny because if we do get an opportunity to get a young franchise QB who might struggle next year, I doubt he signs off on that even though it’s what the team needs. We should have spent this off-season adding a couple more good young pieces FA wise and then ramped up for the season going into the stadium. Those signings seem like mistakes now and worse they are keeping younger players from getting much needed time.
4. I think Teyo Johnson is going to be our TE for a long time. I think someone needs to get in JJ’s face and tell him to hit the freaking hole. I think McCown is the better QB for our team presently constituted. I think the biggest mistake we made this off season was giving money to Huff and Griffith when we could have kept what we had and signed a player who wanted to come here in Hartwell. That guy is a damn wrecking ball. I think that this season could be much like the Bills or Bengals season from a year ago (where we build momentum going into the off season) and I have enough faith in Michael Bidwill and Denny that we will obtain 5 starters from the draft and FA (where I expect us to make a big splash with new revenue coming in from the stadium all ready for next year)
az jam
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Excellent article by Harry. Good assessment. 
conraddobler
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Arizona's Finest said:
I agree with everything you said with one exception.
Almost no one thought jettisoning Clement was a mistake.
I don't think after last night that's an issue anymore but otherwise again I agree with what you said.
Mitch
Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Poor execution is a combination of: (1) faulty schemes; (2) predictable play calling; (3) lack of technique and fundamentals; (4) one ot two players blowing assignments...all of which starts and ends with proper coaching.
Last night...as Paul Maguire so aptly pointed out...Leonard Davis was asked to downblock on his inside gap on a counter play on third and one...if the DT shoots the gap and gets off the ball quicker than Davis, Davis will have no other hope than to hold...
The correct assignment on that play should be to have the FB lead into that DTs gap to fill for the pulling guard and to start the counter action. That way the Dt should be neutralized and won't blow the play up...counter plays take more time to develop...which is why it is a very risky play on third and one when the defense is more than likely going to shoot the gaps to disrupt the play in the first place.
On the previous play, when Marcel Shipp spun his way for nine yards to set up the 3rd and 1...were you, like I was, saying to yourself, "oh, no, we're in the red zone again and the Cardinals are going to call a running play, which will likely be stuffed...which means another stalled drive in the red zone"???
Even worse...the Niners blow up the late developing play, force a fumble and return it for a TD.
I knew the Cardinals would run...they are so predictable. With their offensive line, they should pass in most short yardage situations...especially when they are behind and in dire need of moving the chains.
Dennis Green said two weeks ago that he believes that when the offense gets into the red zone it needs to run the ball. And this is exactly why the Cardinals drives stall out...remember the drive in the first half last night...when the Cardinals marched down to the red zone and had 1st and 10 on the 20. Here were the play calls: (1) Dive right to Shipp...no gain; (2) Quick screen left to Shipp...no gain; (3) 6 yard slant pass to Fitz on 3rd and 10...incomplete (Fitz dropped the low pass).
The point is this...here was an oportunity to take three good shots at the end zone...which with Q and Fitz is the smart thing to do, because they are the team's best players.
Passing from the 20 is much easier than passing from inside the 10...because there's more field to work with. The Cardinal coaches...Green and Rowen...don't seem to understand this...and they don't seem to realize where the real strengths of the offense are. The play calling in the red zone has been so conservative, what it really is???...It's chickening out when the pressure is on.
Finally last night...Rowen and Co. started thinking TD right before the half...and chose to throw the ball up for Fitz...then another pass to Fitz at the pylon...and then later finally a post pass in the middle of the field to Q...who made an excellent 27 yard TD catch. Where was this thinking for 3 1/2 games? How can these coaches not know what their strengths are??? And why are they so chicken sh..???
My peeve on the Rams loss...Why put in a running formation on 1st and goal from the 5 with 27 seconds left and NO timeouts??? Taking a direct snap in that situation was just plain stupid...because the one thing you can't take is a sack in that situation. Then Oliver Ross blows his assignment...but the CALL was the real problem...just like the counter CALL on 3rd and 1 last night.
It looks obvious that the current coaching staff doesn't understand situations and it appears clear that the team has not been properly prepared for those situations.
This is the second coaching staff in a row (Mac's included) that looks like they don't even study game film. When does our offense EVER prepare to attack the weakness of the opponent? We just run our same old stuff, week after week, regardless of the opponent...which makes us all the more easy to prepare for. When to we see a nice wrinkle or two?
Case in point...last night's two point conversion...rolling Josh at full speed to the right and squeezing down the field and the passing lanes is not a smart call there. It's TOO predictable. Running Josh on a QB draw...yes! Or hitting a Teyo Johnson on a skinny post...yes! Or even the old TE fall down pass, yes! Some wrinkle would tell the team and all of us that plays and situations are being prepped for during the week. One time, for example, against Carolina, Marc Trestman called a TE screen to Freddie Jones inside the five yard line, that actaully turned out to be the game winner. That was a wrinkle!!! That was a sign of creativity and preparation. It was so good a call, Jones trotted into the end zone untouched.
Execution...yeah...it's a problem...but it all starts with calling plays that have the best chance of working in the right situation.
Green is the guy talking playoffs..and has been for two years...yet with all of the problems Green created for himself and the team, all of which Harry articulately alluded to, how in the world can he be taken seriously?
Does Green have the credibility and the coaching expertise to mentor this team into a winner? It would appear that he needs a Brian Billick designing and calling the plays...I'll tell you what...when Billick was Green's OC...he was taking shots left and right at the end zone with Cris Carter, Jake Reed and Randy Moss...he wasn't trying to establish a floundering running game when the team entered the red zone.
Last night...as Paul Maguire so aptly pointed out...Leonard Davis was asked to downblock on his inside gap on a counter play on third and one...if the DT shoots the gap and gets off the ball quicker than Davis, Davis will have no other hope than to hold...
The correct assignment on that play should be to have the FB lead into that DTs gap to fill for the pulling guard and to start the counter action. That way the Dt should be neutralized and won't blow the play up...counter plays take more time to develop...which is why it is a very risky play on third and one when the defense is more than likely going to shoot the gaps to disrupt the play in the first place.
On the previous play, when Marcel Shipp spun his way for nine yards to set up the 3rd and 1...were you, like I was, saying to yourself, "oh, no, we're in the red zone again and the Cardinals are going to call a running play, which will likely be stuffed...which means another stalled drive in the red zone"???
Even worse...the Niners blow up the late developing play, force a fumble and return it for a TD.
I knew the Cardinals would run...they are so predictable. With their offensive line, they should pass in most short yardage situations...especially when they are behind and in dire need of moving the chains.
Dennis Green said two weeks ago that he believes that when the offense gets into the red zone it needs to run the ball. And this is exactly why the Cardinals drives stall out...remember the drive in the first half last night...when the Cardinals marched down to the red zone and had 1st and 10 on the 20. Here were the play calls: (1) Dive right to Shipp...no gain; (2) Quick screen left to Shipp...no gain; (3) 6 yard slant pass to Fitz on 3rd and 10...incomplete (Fitz dropped the low pass).
The point is this...here was an oportunity to take three good shots at the end zone...which with Q and Fitz is the smart thing to do, because they are the team's best players.
Passing from the 20 is much easier than passing from inside the 10...because there's more field to work with. The Cardinal coaches...Green and Rowen...don't seem to understand this...and they don't seem to realize where the real strengths of the offense are. The play calling in the red zone has been so conservative, what it really is???...It's chickening out when the pressure is on.
Finally last night...Rowen and Co. started thinking TD right before the half...and chose to throw the ball up for Fitz...then another pass to Fitz at the pylon...and then later finally a post pass in the middle of the field to Q...who made an excellent 27 yard TD catch. Where was this thinking for 3 1/2 games? How can these coaches not know what their strengths are??? And why are they so chicken sh..???
My peeve on the Rams loss...Why put in a running formation on 1st and goal from the 5 with 27 seconds left and NO timeouts??? Taking a direct snap in that situation was just plain stupid...because the one thing you can't take is a sack in that situation. Then Oliver Ross blows his assignment...but the CALL was the real problem...just like the counter CALL on 3rd and 1 last night.
It looks obvious that the current coaching staff doesn't understand situations and it appears clear that the team has not been properly prepared for those situations.
This is the second coaching staff in a row (Mac's included) that looks like they don't even study game film. When does our offense EVER prepare to attack the weakness of the opponent? We just run our same old stuff, week after week, regardless of the opponent...which makes us all the more easy to prepare for. When to we see a nice wrinkle or two?
Case in point...last night's two point conversion...rolling Josh at full speed to the right and squeezing down the field and the passing lanes is not a smart call there. It's TOO predictable. Running Josh on a QB draw...yes! Or hitting a Teyo Johnson on a skinny post...yes! Or even the old TE fall down pass, yes! Some wrinkle would tell the team and all of us that plays and situations are being prepped for during the week. One time, for example, against Carolina, Marc Trestman called a TE screen to Freddie Jones inside the five yard line, that actaully turned out to be the game winner. That was a wrinkle!!! That was a sign of creativity and preparation. It was so good a call, Jones trotted into the end zone untouched.
Execution...yeah...it's a problem...but it all starts with calling plays that have the best chance of working in the right situation.
Green is the guy talking playoffs..and has been for two years...yet with all of the problems Green created for himself and the team, all of which Harry articulately alluded to, how in the world can he be taken seriously?
Does Green have the credibility and the coaching expertise to mentor this team into a winner? It would appear that he needs a Brian Billick designing and calling the plays...I'll tell you what...when Billick was Green's OC...he was taking shots left and right at the end zone with Cris Carter, Jake Reed and Randy Moss...he wasn't trying to establish a floundering running game when the team entered the red zone.
Renz
An Army of One
Jeez, Walt. Your Green-hate knows no bounds. Even when we win Green sucks. 
red desert
ASFN Addict
Harry and Walter... both you guys know your football.
Let's win again this Sunday.
Let's win again this Sunday.
Arizona's Finest
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red desert said:Harry and Walter... both you guys know your football.
Let's win again this Sunday.
Knew that one was coming....
Mitch you definitly know your football and i found myself actually looking at things differently and agreeing with parts of your comments. But you are failing to mention the good Denny brings to this team, and one of the more important aspects, which is credibility. Denny has a past history of winning and that automatically brings respect from the players, as you have done it before. There is also a reason we were the co-favorite to win the division in the pre season. People believe in Denny and he brings a winning mentality. That pedigree brings Free Agents, coordinators, and media to which we never usually get in Arizona.
Now i think he is finding things our harder in Arizona then you might find elsewhere, but through time, he will prevail. And I really don't agree with your stance on not having Billick becuase Billick has moved on to have NO offensive success at all without Denny. At least their were a couple years with the vikings and the start of his tenure here (not yet something to brag about) w/o Billick. Denny also brings a real eye for talent, an ability to motivate (how many NFL network pre game speechs you heard coming from Denny?) and good scheme designs.
I agree that Denny is not a very good in game coach and I feel his keeping the team focused issues are real and not percieved. For many reasons (as well as the one you succiently made in your post walt)Denny needs a more experienced play caller on offense and a demanding one as well. I have also thought that Denny might be better utilized in a front office role, but im thinking his pride will not let him do that unless his firing as Head Coach is imminent. So with what we have to work with, Rowen better grow up fast or the Bidwells are going to have to Pony up. Jim Fassel, Sean Payton, or even a good college coach who wants to try the NFL will all do the trick.
The bottom line is he is the best we have had in Arizona as far as accomplished. Only a handful of coachs have won the Super Bowl and he is one of the best to never have. Off the top of my head i think Andy Reid, Marv Levy, Bill Cowher, and Dungy. He has his flaws but they are fixable and winning cures all ills. Says here if the Cardinal players executed plays better (less penalties, drop passes, missed assignments)in spite of Dennys cracking the whip, no one would be bringing up these flaws. As Greene stated, we are in week 4 of a three year project and while we expected to be better were probaly pretty close to where we should be. We have better talent overall, its the depth and inexperience in key spots that is being exposed through the first four weeks. This Rolle injury makes me wonder if god will ever let me just smile on the Cardinals for 24 hours.
Denny is not playing with a full deck considering our teams past and while this is a tough place to win, I think he will do it. One more thing to consider is that if Denny fails here, once again going back to his credibility, what legitimate coach with a reputation on the line will ever want to be the next dead man walking. Baby Steps, although dissapointing, are not unexpected for our team. We have been bad for a long time and it will take a while to claw all the way up.
az1965
Love Games!
Nice read, Harry!
red desert said:Harry and Walter... both you guys know your football.
Let's win again this Sunday.
The only thing that matters is winning. I will buy into anything that produces that. Anything less is just talk. I am waiting patiently to see what develops. I really did not expect to win more than 7 games this year and to me that will be acceptable. Anything less is not and we should not be happy with a 4-5 win season. We had better have a QB solution by the start of next year be it McCown,Warner or some new guy.
Green seems to have acknowledged this in an interview this week where he said we are a "pass-first" offense. This is the first time I've heard him actually say that. I the past we've tried to pretend that we would run to set up the pass.Mitch said:
I think this acknowledgement is a step in the right direction, and maybe we'll see some better (less predictable) play calling from here on out.
conraddobler
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Pariah said:
You can call it what you want, pass first offense is the current term, the main goal is to be unpredictable.
I am a huge believer in running only a few formations that are extremely versatile.
Motion is ok as long as that motion does not lead to a predictable play being run behind it.
The key is to run the greatest majority of your plays on your terms, or terms that you have the best chance of succeeding at, all the while not becoming so predictable that you tip off the other team as to what is comming, unless of course they can't stop it even if they know it's comming.
Snakester
Draft Man
Nice article Harry. We pretty much see eye to eye on most things with the Cardinals, except you have a better talent for writing them then I do. Keep up the good work!
