Article on Simoron Rice

[LoyaltyisaCurse]

I watched Sim throw his body into the line with no intent of helping his teammates on defense countless times in person at SDS.

But I must respond to the latest Kerouac B. S.

Pat Tillman was not a very good football player.

Pat Tillman got the last scholarship at ASU in 1994.

As a senior in 1997, he was VOTED PAC - 10 DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR, and played for a National Championship in the Rose Bowl.

Tillman was the 226th pick out of 241 in the NFL draft in 1998. He switched positions from LB to safety, and started 10 games as a rookie in 1998, and was on the only team to win a playoff game for the Cardinals since 1947.

Tillman set a team record for tackles in 2000, and turned down a 5 year 9 million dollar contract with the Rams in 2001, out of loyalty to the team that drafted him. He then turned down 3.6 million from the Cards to go and serve his country.

A boob like Kerouac9 would counter that the only reason Tilly had so many tackles, is because the team was so bad, the safety HAD to make more tackles. Could be true, but you can't blame Tillman for that.

Career:

Tillman-331 tackles in 39 starts.
Rice-335 tackles in 143 starts.

Looks to me like Tilly wouldn't have had NEARLY as many career tackles if not for Simeon Rice letting all those players run by him, while he was calling his own plays designed to free himself up for more sacks.

:notworthy

 

[kerouac9]

I watched Sim throw his body into the line with no intent of helping his teammates on defense countless times in person at SDS.

But I must respond to the latest Kerouac B. S.

Pat Tillman was not a very good football player.

Pat Tillman got the last scholarship at ASU in 1994.

As a senior in 1997, he was VOTED PAC - 10 DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR, and played for a National Championship in the Rose Bowl.

Tillman was the 226th pick out of 241 in the NFL draft in 1998. He switched positions from LB to safety, and started 10 games as a rookie in 1998, and was on the only team to win a playoff game for the Cardinals since 1947.

Tillman set a team record for tackles in 2000, and turned down a 5 year 9 million dollar contract with the Rams in 2001, out of loyalty to the team that drafted him. He then turned down 3.6 million from the Cards to go and serve his country.

A boob like Kerouac9 would counter that the only reason Tilly had so many tackles, is because the team was so bad, the safety HAD to make more tackles. Could be true, but you can't blame Tillman for that.

Career:

Tillman-331 tackles in 39 starts.
Rice-335 tackles in 143 starts.

Looks to me like Tilly wouldn't have had NEARLY as many career tackles if not for Simeon Rice letting all those players run by him, while he was calling his own plays designed to free himself up for more sacks.

Blah, blah, blah, Lex. How many picks and passes defensed did Tilly have at strong safety through all those starts? How many forced fumbles? How many game-changing plays? Not many. Guy got a lot of junk seven yards past the line of scrimmage. Bully for him. Ronald McKinnon has a lot of tackles, too, but it doesn't mean anything because he's a liability to the team.

How does the "turning down a contract" thing inform his abilities as a football player? People on this site (and others after his death) are trying to make Tilly out to be a Hall of Fame player. That's as large a betrayal of his legacy as the Pentagon covering up the circumstances of his death. He was a great effort player that always seemed to perform above his modest talent level. But to compare him in any way to the player that Simeon Rice is or nearly every other starting strong safety in the NFL is just silly. He doesn't compare, he was bad out on the field. That's the long and the short of it.

Hall of Fame person. Hall of Who? player.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Blah, blah, blah, Lex. How many picks and passes defensed did Tilly have at strong safety through all those starts? How many forced fumbles? How many game-changing plays? Not many. Guy got a lot of junk seven yards past the line of scrimmage. Bully for him. Ronald McKinnon has a lot of tackles, too, but it doesn't mean anything because he's a liability to the team.

How does the "turning down a contract" thing inform his abilities as a football player? People on this site (and others after his death) are trying to make Tilly out to be a Hall of Fame player. That's as large a betrayal of his legacy as the Pentagon covering up the circumstances of his death. He was a great effort player that always seemed to perform above his modest talent level. But to compare him in any way to the player that Simeon Rice is or nearly every other starting strong safety in the NFL is just silly. He doesn't compare, he was bad out on the field. That's the long and the short of it.

Hall of Fame person. Hall of Who? player.

Well, certainly not a Hall of Fame player... but enters (IMO) the Pantheon of Hall of Fame human beings.

The contracts he was offered and turned down show that people who as a profession judge talent found him worthy.

As a charter member of the "peanut gallery" feel free to question their assessment.

 

[kerouac9]

Well, certainly not a Hall of Fame player... but enters (IMO) the Pantheon of Hall of Fame human beings.

The contracts he was offered and turned down show that people who as a profession judge talent found him worthy.

As a charter member of the "peanut gallery" feel free to question their assessment.

I agree with the Hall of Fame human beings. Absolutely.

Look at the actuality of the contracts he was offered, though. He was essentially offered $1 mil. per season. That is, essentially, just above the veteran minimum for a player of his level. A small signing bonus included. You're right, I do think that people whom as a profession judge talent found him worthy of a salary equivalent to that of a special teams/bench player.

Feel free to question their assessment.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

I agree with the Hall of Fame human beings. Absolutely.

Look at the actuality of the contracts he was offered, though. He was essentially offered $1 mil. per season. That is, essentially, just above the veteran minimum for a player of his level. A small signing bonus included. You're right, I do think that people whom as a profession judge talent found him worthy of a salary equivalent to that of a special teams/bench player.

Feel free to question their assessment.

So, according to you - "special teams/bench players" were being offered 9m over 5 years in 2001. I didn't know that.

Perhaps, as no doubt you've done the research - you could tell me where I could find the contracts in that year that support this assertion?

 

[SECTION 11]

So, according to you - "special teams/bench players" were being offered 9m over 5 years in 2001. I didn't know that.

Perhaps, as no doubt you've done the research - you could tell me where I could find the contracts in that year that support this assertion?

D'oh!

 

[Russ Smith]

Career:

Tillman-331 tackles in 39 starts.
Rice-335 tackles in 143 starts.

.

Bertrand Berry 16 starts 39 tackles,
Ifeanyi Ohalete 16 games 13 starts 57 tackles.

Anybody think Ohalete is better?

It's also misleading to say 39 starts 331 tackles when you know he played in 60 games total. Rice has started essentially every game he's played in.

SS's and FS's make more tackles than RDE's, on every team in the NFL, always have, probably always will.

Tillman was a great person but he was not a great player, again 1998 benching Pat for Lassiter at FS(Bennett was the SS) was one of the biggest reasons we made the playoffs. Pat was a great guy who we all wish was still alive but let's not make him something he wasn't as a player.

 

[Mulli]

Bertrand Berry 16 starts 39 tackles,
Ifeanyi Ohalete 16 games 13 starts 57 tackles.

Anybody think Ohalete is better?

It's also misleading to say 39 starts 331 tackles when you know he played in 60 games total. Rice has started essentially every game he's played in.

SS's and FS's make more tackles than RDE's, on every team in the NFL, always have, probably always will.

Tillman was a great person but he was not a great player, again 1998 benching Pat for Lassiter at FS(Bennett was the SS) was one of the biggest reasons we made the playoffs. Pat was a great guy who we all wish was still alive but let's not make him something he wasn't as a player.

Lassiter was benched? I thought he had 8 or 9 picks that year. I could be wrong though.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Lassiter was benched? I thought he had 8 or 9 picks that year. I could be wrong though.

He said: ".... benching Pat for Lassiter..."

 

[Russ Smith]

Well, certainly not a Hall of Fame player... but enters (IMO) the Pantheon of Hall of Fame human beings.

The contracts he was offered and turned down show that people who as a profession judge talent found him worthy.

As a charter member of the "peanut gallery" feel free to question their assessment.

Well how much did we offer Martay Jenkins again? Lots of players not considered very good get offered lots of money in the NFL.

Why do people have such a hard time separating Tillman the person and Tillman the player?

 

[Russ Smith]

Lassiter was benched? I thought he had 8 or 9 picks that year. I could be wrong though.

Tillman was benched for Lassiter, Tillman started at FS much of that season with Bennett at SS.

 

[kerouac9]

So, according to you - "special teams/bench players" were being offered 9m over 5 years in 2001. I didn't know that.

Perhaps, as no doubt you've done the research - you could tell me where I could find the contracts in that year that support this assertion?

Do your own math. It's remarkably easy. $9 million dollars over five years equates to $1.8 million per year, salary. According to USAToday.com's listing of Cardinal salaries in 2001, his salary would have been more than Mike Gruttadauria but less than Rob Fredrickson. But it wouldn't have just been his salary. He would have gotten a "modest" signing bonus (in the $1 million range) and then the rest would be salary, about $1.6 per season. That would have landed him in the auspicious company of Gerald McBurrows (yes, that Gerald McBurrows) and Darryl Williams among 2001 Safeties.

This question is easy enough to answer: if Pat Tillman was so very valuable to the Cardinals as a player, then why did they use a first-day pick on Adrian Wilson? It's not like Mac was always saying that he drafted the best available athlete.

 

[Mulli]

Oh yeah. Sorry Russ. That is exactly what you posted. self

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Do your own math. It's remarkably easy. $9 million dollars over five years equates to $1.8 million per year, salary. According to USAToday.com's listing of Cardinal salaries in 2001, his salary would have been more than Mike Gruttadauria but less than Rob Fredrickson. But it wouldn't have just been his salary. He would have gotten a "modest" signing bonus (in the $1 million range) and then the rest would be salary, about $1.6 per season. That would have landed him in the auspicious company of Gerald McBurrows (yes, that Gerald McBurrows) and Darryl Williams among 2001 Safeties.

This question is easy enough to answer: if Pat Tillman was so very valuable to the Cardinals as a player, then why did they use a first-day pick on Adrian Wilson? It's not like Mac was always saying that he drafted the best available athlete.

Still waiting for the av. bench/special teams player salaries... for 2001/02.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

Well how much did we offer Martay Jenkins again? Lots of players not considered very good get offered lots of money in the NFL.

Why do people have such a hard time separating Tillman the person and Tillman the player?

Who are you talking about?

I'm not confused between the two.

I didn't read in any of the pro-Tillman remarks any reference to him being a "Hall of Famer"... rather, it was those who chose to denigrate his football accomplishments who used that reference.

I think he was a serviceable NFL player... no more, no less.

 

[kerouac9]

Still waiting for the av. bench/special teams player salaries... for 2001/02.

What do you want? We offered Mar Tay Jenkins about the same amount, and he wasn't very good, either. Basically, the two people that offered anything to Pat Tillman were the two worst personnel evaluators in the NFL: Mike Martz and Dave McGinnis. What more do you need?

Pat Tillman was benched the one season that the Cardinals' defense was any good.

Larry Izzo made $448,000 salary with the Pats in 2001. Allan Rossum made $512,000 with the Packers, but then got a $1 mil signing bonus to join the Falcons the next season. Tim Dwight made $1.1 million playing for the Chargers following the Mike Vick trade.

It should be pretty obvious that once Pat Tillman entered his free agent year, his term as a starting safety was at an end. Adrian Wilson, as a rookie, was about 100X better than Pat Tillman ever was. That's the long and the short of it.

 

[Crazy Canuck]

What do you want? We offered Mar Tay Jenkins about the same amount, and he wasn't very good, either. Basically, the two people that offered anything to Pat Tillman were the two worst personnel evaluators in the NFL: Mike Martz and Dave McGinnis. What more do you need?

Pat Tillman was benched the one season that the Cardinals' defense was any good.

Larry Izzo made $448,000 salary with the Pats in 2001. Allan Rossum made $512,000 with the Packers, but then got a $1 mil signing bonus to join the Falcons the next season. Tim Dwight made $1.1 million playing for the Chargers following the Mike Vick trade.

It should be pretty obvious that once Pat Tillman entered his free agent year, his term as a starting safety was at an end. Adrian Wilson, as a rookie, was about 100X better than Pat Tillman ever was. That's the long and the short of it.

Snide, juvenile remarks aside... thanks for the info.

 

[Russ Smith]

Who are you talking about?

I'm not confused between the two.

I didn't read in any of the pro-Tillman remarks any reference to him being a "Hall of Famer"... rather, it was those who chose to denigrate his football accomplishments who used that reference.

I think he was a serviceable NFL player... no more, no less.

This entire thread is about people still mad at Simeon Rice for saying Pat wasn't a very good player. That's what I'm talking about.

He was a great special teamer and a below average starting NFL SS.

 

[Matt L]

Well he is one of the great pass rushers of the last 10 years or so, and one of the guys who popularized that strip move on the sack to cause fumbles.

i was trying to make a joke and asked conrad what talent he has that he makes a few bucks at parties.

i guess it was a bad joke.

 

[Russ Smith]

i was trying to make a joke and asked conrad what talent he has that he makes a few bucks at parties.

i guess it was a bad joke.

Sorry I just didn't realize you were kidding, my bad.