ASFN: New Start For Center Steven Hunter

[George O'Brien]

ASFN: New Start For Center Steven Hunter

 

[Mainstreet]

George, this is a very insightful and well written article. You have my compliments.

I believe the Suns feel they have the talent to survive at center, however, I also believe the Suns's signing of Tabuse is a hedge against their having to give up depth on their roster, especially at the PG position, in a trade ( e.g., Barbosa or JJ with Eisley the odd man out) if they are wrong.

I'm certainly hoping the Suns have enough talent at the center/Pf position so we can keep our current roster, less Eisley, intact.

 

[George O'Brien]

George, this is avery insighful and well written article. You have my compliments.

I believe the Suns feel they have the talent to survive at center, however, I also believe the Suns's signing of Tabuse is a hedge against their having to give up depth on their roster, especially at the PG position, in a trade ( e.g., Barbosa or JJ with Eisley the odd man out) if they are wrong.

I'm certainly hoping the Suns have enough talent at the center/Pf position so we can keep our current roster less Eisley intact.

I'm still puzzled as to why Scott Williams was not brought in, even if only with a "make good" contract. All I can think is that the Suns are committed to developing their young inside guys.

 

[Mainstreet]

I'm still puzzled as to why Scott Williams was not brought in, even if only with a "make good" contract. All I can think is that the Suns are committed to developing their young inside guys.

I've wondered down deep that the Suns may not be as committed to Scott after he pushed the Suns to waive him last year (sort of a loyalty issue). I believe the Suns had clearly expressed he was going to be in their future as a coach or in some other capacity prior to his wanting to join another team last season.

 

[devilalum]

I've wondered down deep that the Suns may not be as committed to Scott after he pushed the Suns to waive him last year (sort of a loyalty issue). I believe the Suns had clearly expressed he was going to be in their future as a coach or in some other capacity prior to his wanting to join another team last season.

It's like abandoning a burning ship in the only lifeboat then asking to come back on board when the ship doesn't sink.

 

[DevonCardsFan]

It's like abandoning a burning ship in the only lifeboat then asking to come back on board when the ship doesn't sink.

Good analogy and a very good article. Thanks

 

[elindholm]

It's like abandoning a burning ship in the only lifeboat then asking to come back on board when the ship doesn't sink.

LOL

 

[Hired Goon]

George I believe that the article you wrote is on the mainpage of the site. So I was wondering why you would post the article again. It seems to me that you are seeking praise to boost your self esteem . Do you like to have people say you wrote a good article because that can be arranged, but don't waste space on the forum with a repeat article just to gain praise. Thank you

 

[George O'Brien]

George I believe that the article you wrote is on the mainpage of the site. So I was wondering why you would post the article again. It seems to me that you are seeking praise to boost your self esteem . Do you like to have people say you wrote a good article because that can be arranged, but don't waste space on the forum with a repeat article just to gain praise. Thank you

If you want to praise me that's fine, but it was hardly the point. Most pure Suns fans don't look at the front page because it is mostly Cardinals stuff. I clearly mark it as an ASFN article so people know it is also on the front page and list it as a link rather than than copying the entire article.

By the way, if somone would like to submit an article to be run on front page, you can e-mail me and I'll put in the html code.

 

[thegrahamcrackr]

George I believe that the article you wrote is on the mainpage of the site. So I was wondering why you would post the article again. It seems to me that you are seeking praise to boost your self esteem . Do you like to have people say you wrote a good article because that can be arranged, but don't waste space on the forum with a repeat article just to gain praise. Thank you

Totally uncalled for. Several posters, myself included, have the forum bookmarked. I would have no way of knowing about new articles unless George posts them ehre.

 

[scotsman13]

i know that the only way i see george's is when he posts a link here that he has put it up.

i could careless about the cards, diamondbacks, yots or any other valley teams besides the suns, heck i dont even watch any other sports beside basketball.

 

[PhxGametime]

I start off on homepage and most times wouldn't notice article unless it was posted here on Suns board, I am Cardinals fan (all Arizona teams but asu) but don't read much from homepage - I like to watch Cardinals games on Tv but don't spend much time on their board (I am on Suns board most of the time).

I will watch D'backs when I can but with so many games on and well I watch Basketball year round Suns, Mercury, and College (I taped over 13-15 College tapes of last year though). I do keep Suns, have since 1996-97.

I am a bit obsessed - I collect sports cards (traded a few times online) and have my own Basketball Draftlist LOL... on my signature though that was right after Draft and a bit outdated but on Draftlist - I have 90 Prospects listed . Top 10 position (with 1 honorable mention) and Players to watch and Future Prospects. I didn't get much love with Top 100 list of last year posted here - so I will keep list to myself (plus I haven't seen everybody).

All my clothes are sports related as well... I'm getting 2004-05 Pro Basketball and College Preview mags in mail soon Other than not playing Fantasy Basketball in a few years (I prefer the USA today Basketball Challenge, just don't have money) - I'm set.

Great article...

 

[Dylan]

George, keep up the good work... some people must find something to complain about I guess...

We are lucky you are here George, thanks...

 

[Chaz]

George I believe that the article you wrote is on the mainpage of the site. So I was wondering why you would post the article again. It seems to me that you are seeking praise to boost your self esteem . Do you like to have people say you wrote a good article because that can be arranged, but don't waste space on the forum with a repeat article just to gain praise. Thank you

What are you talking about? They post stickies in the Cardinals forum for the front page articles about the Cardinals. They do this so there is a place to discuss the points of the article. What is wrong with George doing the same and posting a thread about his article? Does Joe Mama have to post it so George doesn't appear vain to you?

Either you are trying to be funny and I don't get it, or you assume too much.

 

[Chaz]

I am really excited about Hunter. I am worried about his strength and how well he will be able to fight for position consistantly.

Still he is a defensive prospect, a young player and we didn't have to give up anything to get him.


So far I Give the Suns a "B" for the offseason. It wasn't the homerun "A" offseason that some people said was essential but it was a solid improvement. It should be an interesting team to watch.

 

[PhxGametime]

I would give Suns an A- or A. Suns added to team (the players left were role players and replaced). Nash is probably the best PG for team in league, Richardson is possibly the frontrunner for 6th Man, and Suns added 2 young role players in Steven Hunter and Jackson Vroman. IMO Suns are one of the top teams 1-4 with depth and have 3 Centers that can have a role on team regardless of talent and IMO while not being great Centers - Hunter and Lampe can play in this League.

If Vroman can spell the 3 Centers a few minutes and Hellboy is a top tier talent (regardless of position), if he would be willing to play 5-8 minutes alongside - Marion, Johnson, Richardson, and Nash; Suns could easily get Homecourt.

 

[PhxGametime]

A+ being an All-Star Center...

 

[George O'Brien]

I'm never quite sure what to make of ratings. I like the Suns moves and I'm sure they will be a lot better. Just having Amare for the entire season would do that, but the additions give them talent and depth.

That being said, I still think Hunter has as much chance of being a bust as he has of being solid starter. The Magic fans say Hunter looked lost on the court last season, but also say that Johnny Davis is a terrible coach. If Hunter is a bust, the Suns will struggle to make the playoffs.

The point of my article was to try to figure out what the Suns are thinking. It looks like they are more focused on his talent than his performance so far. If they are right, and Hunters turns into a solid 24 minute, 6 ppg, 6 rpg, 2 blocks per game center; the Suns should get more than 50 wins without trouble.

As I said in my article, it is the most intriguing story of the preseason.

 

[Mainstreet]

Originally posted by George O'Brien

The point of my article was to try to figure out what the Suns are thinking. It looks like they are more focused on his talent than his performance so far. If they are right, and Hunters turns into a solid 24 minute, 6 ppg, 6 rpg, 2 blocks per game center; the Suns should get more than 50 wins without trouble.

I've taken a pretty simplistic view of the center position from where I feel the Suns view it. There was just not that much talent available at the center position this year in free agency or trade except Shaq. Why overpay for unproven talent or mediocre talent at the center position when proven talent was available in Nash and Q? There is probably just a good of chance of Hunter turning into a good role center as many of the others that were signed for big money.

I think the Suns present strategy is to try to beat the other team by matching or surpassing their first team at the 1, 2, 3, and 4 positions and them beat them in the 4th quarter with a superior bench and depth. The development of our centers would be a huge plus, particularly Lampe and Hunter. We already know what Jake gives.

John McLeod, as coach for the Suns, used this strategy for years to beat opponents and it worked until his offense became too regimented and lacked sponaneity. He was a great coach for the Suns until the players became afraid to execute outside the framework of the offense even when the opportunites presented themselves. In other words, the players eventually became hesitant. I believe Sacramento also used this quality bench strategy quite well but remained spontaneous.

I don't think there is likely to be much hesitancy with the current Suns' team with their emphasis on speed and motion, especially with Nash at the point.

 

[BC867]

John McLeod, as coach for the Suns, used this strategy for years to beat opponents and it worked until his offense became too regimented and lacked sponaneity. He was a great coach for the Suns until the players became afraid to execute outside the framework of the offense even when the opportunites presented themselves. In other words, the players eventually became hesitant.

That is so true, Mainstreet. And it's why Championship caliber players like Dennis Johnson and Maurice Lucas -- and Championships -- didn't fit John MacLeod and the Suns.

It's why 50-and-fade became the best we could achieve. And it's why trades like DJ-for-Robey were made. The rest of the GM's knew that the players wanted out and the Suns wanted them out. They didn't have to offer talent in return.

Mo Lucas for Truck Robinson. A 6'9" enforcer at the Power Forward position for a player who rebounded well for an undersized 6'7" Power Forward.

Ironically, Rich Kelley at Center had more rebounds-per-minutes played than Truck when they played together. But Kelley, of course, would find himself on the bench with the game on the line, with a lineup of 2 Forwards and 3 Guards on the floor.

Oh, how I hope those days are behind us.

 

[George O'Brien]

My memory of the Suns only goes back about 15 years, so I have no comment on some of the dumb moves the team made 25 years ago.

Realistically, it is very hard to get proven top level centers through trade. The best way is always throught he draft, but it is hard when the team is usually a playoff team. The Suns, the only year they really tank (this past season), the selection of centers was pretty pathetic. Okafor is only 6'10" and Araujo is unlikely to be more than average. The Spurs were much more skillful at tanking when there were franchise big men in the draft.

I really like their decision to trade this year's pick for a shot at a high pick next year. There is a real chance that next year will be a very good year for centers. The fact that Vroman may turn out to be a pretty good player is pure gravey.

In any case, Hunter IS different from most of the minimum salary stiffs the Suns have had over the years. He actually has the physical tools to be very good. It is up to him and the coaching staff to turn the talent into performance. But I'm not sure there were any rookie centers this summer (outside of perhaps Okafor) with any more promise than Hunter.

 

[Mainstreet]

I really like their decision to trade this year's pick for a shot at a high pick next year. There is a real chance that next year will be a very good year for centers. The fact that Vroman may turn out to be a pretty good player is pure gravey.

I totally agree. This past year's draft had few potential quality centers. Of course there is almost always a sleeper but hindsight is always 20/20. I think think the Suns made the right decision to pass and hope there are better options with the Chicago pick. I think even Okafor is more of a PF.

 

[BleedRed]

Hey George, I've been visiting this web site on a daily basis for a year or two now. I don't post very often, but I just wanted to say that I really enjoy your articles, They're always well written with alot of stats, and information I might not have found out if you hadn't have included them. Posting them is also very cool, cuz like someone else said I bookmarked the message boards and not the main page. So yeah just wanted to say keep up the good work and I look forward to reading your future work. Go Suns!!

 

[George O'Brien]

Stats are always a two edged sword. Terry Brown misuses stats to the point I am almost embarassed that I use stats as well.

nba.com has a very interesting section called "Sortable Team Statistics" that I have only begun to mine. In reviewing this section I've learned a number of things that I found surprising.

1. New Jersey was not a very good offensive team last season. They ranked only 23rd in points scored (90.26 ppg), the Nets were only 18th in field go percentage (44.1%), and 21st in shooting for three (33.6%). They had a good defense, ranked fourth in points against (87.76 ppg) and 5th best in opponents shooting percentages (42.7 %). Considering that their starting center was Jason Collins who averaged only 5.1 rpg and .82 blocks in 28.5 minutes; this gives some hope for the Suns.

BTW, Considering Kidd is injured and they lost second, fourth, fifth, and sixth scorers; the Nets promise to be an unbelievably bad team.

2. Indiana did it with mirrors. The Pacers ranked 3rd in point differential for the season and finished with 61 wins (next best was the Wolves with 58 ). But the underlying stats were not that impressive. The Pacers ranked only 19th in shooting percentage and their percentage against of 43.2 put them in a virtual 3 way tie for 9th (tied with the Sixers and the Jazz). This is good but nothing close to the top four that permitted less than 41.4%. The ranked 8th in net rebounding with a net 1.55 but were 26th in net blocks with a minus 1.23. The one thing that stands out for the Pacers was that they were #1 in net steals with a +1.75 (the Suns were fourth with a +1.03).

I'm not sure how a team that is just "good" at defensive shooting percentage and net rebounding is so effective on defense. Their net steals number is due to not turning the ball over since the Suns had more steals than the Pacers. But somehow, the Pacers were third best in points against, giving up only 85.62 ppg.

3. Toronto Lost Because Of Lack of Offense and Rebounding: It is hardly surprising to find that a team with Chris Bosh at center would not be able to rebound. They ranked 29th with a net -5.45 rpg. But otherwise, their defense was pretty good: ranking 7th best in percentage shot against, second best against the three, and 6th in points scored against. The surprising part was that a team with Vince Carter, Donyell Marshall, Jalen Rose, and Chris Bosh struggled to score only 85.44 ppg. Averaging 41.8% from the field, only Chicago had a worse shooting percentage. Some of this was due to Vince Carter hitting only 41.7% after averaging 45.3% for his previous career.

I guess my only point is that "common knowledge" is not always accurate. I'm sure there are other examples.

 

[Gaddabout]

I have a fear Hunter will be one of those aggravating players who flashes talent for a few games then disappears for a week or two. That's more aggravating than a total bust IMO because the temptation to throw quality minutes at him will always be there.

I've been burned enough I'm going to sit back and watch before I make a judgement on his acquisition. I do give the Suns credit for having the foresight to find the kid. In the past they would have passed on him because he doesn't have the offensive skills they like.