Assessing Steve Kiem

[BritCard]

I don't get the he dosent have long term strategy
In the free agency he used to spend money on players under 30, despite some one year deal on veterans
Regarding big free agents signings ( multi year contracts)
Vakdeher was 26 when signed
Iupati 27
Pugh 27
Sweezy 28
Peters 27
Dennard 28
Philpps 27
Gresham 27
Hicks 27

The only one I remember over 30 was Alford
Suggs was basically a one year deal

The only problems he couldn't fill some spots with rookies

He had a couple of very bad draft

There's a difference between having a long term plan and signing FA's that are more than short term rentals.

The best GM's are drafting for 1 or 2 years ahead, and if they get anything out of them before then it's a bonus. I don't feel like he does that, I feel like he's always drafting for now.

I only feel like he's ever looking at the season just ahead. What does he need to be better right away. Which is why he always seems to have so much dead cap.

He's not a bad GM. In fact, when I was at RoTB I spent a long time defending him. I was basically last man standing there who didn't want him fired. But he's not as good as I once thought he was.

 

[slanidrac16]

He’s done a remarkable job getting us to this point when you look back at the 2018 season.


IMHO he made 3 Or 4 terrible moves.
1. Hiring WilkS
2. Signing Bradford and made it worse by signing him to a 2 year deal. Tied up 30m in salary cap over 2 years.
3. Signed Mike Glennon to back up Bradford.
4. Drafting Rosen.

Those 4 moves should have set us back 5 years. He should thank his lucky stars that he has an owner like Bidwill who was willing to fire an entire coaching staff after 1 year. Most owners would have sent Kiem packing.

To take the smouldering mess at the end of 2018 and get us to this point is really amazing.

 

[GimmedaBall]

I am trying to really wrap my head around what Steve Kiem likes to do in free agency and the draft. It appears based on the success of the 2019 draft he will be here for awhile.


What is his method of operation in free agency?

What are some of his patterns in the draft?

An April 2019 review by Greg Moore/AZ Republic of SK’s drafts from 2013 to 2018 (turn off your Ad Blocker if you use one):

https://www.azcentral.com/story/spo...nals-gm-steve-keims-draft-classes/3499455002/

Jury still out on the last two drafts.

GM's have to be graded 'on the curve' and in relation to other GM's. I don't have the time to look at every single GM and compare Keim to their success. Final grade for a GM: Is he making the owner happy? If 'yes' he gets to keep his job.

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Also he is a consistent trader in the draft. It is almost always for a defensive player he really likes.

2014: Traded down in round 1 from #20 to #27 and selected Buchannon

2015: Traded their #123, sixth, and seventh to get to #116 to take Rodney Gunter

2016: Traded down from #55 to #58 to take Marcus Golden and gain a 5th round pick.

2017: Traded #45 #119, 6th rounder, and a 7th rounder to get to #36 and select Budda Baker. Keim traded down from #77 to #98 and #115 taking Chad Williams and Dorian Johnson. Traded #221 and a 7th rounder to get to #208 and take Rudy Ford

2018: Traded #15, a third rounder, and a 5th rounder for #10 Josh Rosen

2019: Traded Josh Rosen for #62 and a fifth rounder

 

[Krangodnzr]

He is obsessed with drafting 6 foot and below receivers. He became GM in 2013 and that was his first draft class (correction from before but he still took a 6 ft or smaller wr)

2013 Ryan Swope
2014 John Brown
2015 JJ Nelson
2016 No WR Drafted
2017 Chad Williams
2018 Christian Kirk
2019 Andy Isabella
2020 No WR Drafted

This bias is why we drafted Isabella over Metcalf. Keim is a firm believer in the myth of the small speedster "taking the top off the defense"

Chad Williams was 6'2.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Where I think he went wrong was after the NFC Championship season, the one where the Cardinals went 7-9. That was the year to tear down and rebuild.

 

[TJ]

He is obsessed with drafting 6 foot and below receivers. He became GM in 2013 and that was his first draft class (correction from before but he still took a 6 ft or smaller wr)

2013 Ryan Swope
2014 John Brown
2015 JJ Nelson
2016 No WR Drafted
2017 Chad Williams
2018 Christian Kirk
2019 Andy Isabella
2020 No WR Drafted

This bias is why we drafted Isabella over Metcalf. Keim is a firm believer in the myth of the small speedster "taking the top off the defense"

Rich Rodriguez approves

 

[Chris_Sanders]

Chad Williams was 6'2.

Hah we are both wrong. Listed at 6'1"

Same size as Keesan

 

[TJ]

Not a mention of the 50 wins prior to the BA ship sinking.

That’s 2015 and before. Coming into this season since then, his teams are 23-39-2. That’s a rough four-year stretch for any GM, especially if you mix in Keim’s legal woes. Perhaps Bidwill’s extreme patience pays off today, but Keim wouldn’t survive for most other teams.

 

[AZCrazy]

You have to understand the history of the Cardinals. Any non losing season still feels like a great success. The BA run was the best in history. His last two ~.500 seasons were largely due to gross injury problems.
Now we're back to winning this year. Keim is in a competitive environment and will have wins and losses like everyone else. The GM's who look like 'geniuses' are really guys who acquired a HOF quarterback and are riding that wave.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

He is obsessed with drafting 6 foot and below receivers. He became GM in 2013 and that was his first draft class (correction from before but he still took a 6 ft or smaller wr)

2013 Ryan Swope
2014 John Brown
2015 JJ Nelson
2016 No WR Drafted
2017 Chad Williams
2018 Christian Kirk
2019 Andy Isabella
2020 No WR Drafted

This bias is why we drafted Isabella over Metcalf. Keim is a firm believer in the myth of the small speedster "taking the top off the defense"

Just checked the years where we didn't officially draft a short WR...

In 2016, we signed a few undrafted WR's after the draft - Amir Carlisle (5'9.5"), Jeff Beathard (5'10"), and Chris King 6'0").

In 2020, we signed a few undrafted WR's, too - JoJo West (5'9"), Shane Leatherby (5'11"), and the guy who got drunk and then drove his car into Lake Erie - Jeremiah Braswell (a towering 6'0").

It is crazy that Keim is so obsessed with undersized WR's.

I bet we signed other short WR's in other years too.

What the heck?

Had he been in charge in 2004 - would he have gone with Lee Evans (5'10") over Fitz (6'3")? SMH.

 

[Brian in Mesa]

Hah we are both wrong. Listed at 6'1"

Same size as KeeSean

2017 seems to be an aberration: Chad Williams at 6'1" and two undrafted WR's at 6'3" and 6'6". LOL

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

2nd Round Picks

Really Good

Hopkins
Jones
Budda

Solid

Murphy
Kirk
Golden
Minter

Bad

Niklas

For me the point of grading a draft is scouting and pre draft analysis leading to drafting a good player. Yes he did spend a 2nd on Hopkins, but he was an already proven great player when we spent that pick on him.

Kiem definitely gets credit for pulling the trade off, but I wouldn't involve that into draft success in any way.

 

[Finito]

For me the point of grading a draft is scouting and pre draft analysis leading to drafting a good player. Yes he did spend a 2nd on Hopkins, but he was an already proven great player when we spent that pick on him.

Kiem definitely gets credit for pulling the trade off, but I wouldn't involve that into draft success in any way.

I would disagree you get a certain amount of draft picks what you do with those all count in my opinion. How do you use the draft to better your team

We gave up a 6th and 7th rounder for Carson Palmer

a 2nd for Chandler Jones

a 2nd and 4th for Deandre Hopkins

 

[CardsSunsDbacks]

I would disagree you get a certain amount of draft picks what you do with those all count in my opinion. How do you use the draft to better your team

We gave up a 6th and 7th rounder for Carson Palmer

a 2nd for Chandler Jones

a 2nd and 4th for Deandre Hopkins

Giving that up for Hopkins is a no brainer. It requires no level of analysis or scouting to come to that conclusion. It does nothing to sway the argument that he is or isn't good at drafting.

He has pretty much always done a good job with trades, but his drafting has been subpar at best to this point.

Like I said he gets credit for pulling off these trades using draft capitol, but it does nothing to refute the idea that he isn't very good at drafting.

 

[AZCrazy]

In recent years, he's drafted much better. Simmons was the obvious pick and it's on the coaches from here to get him in.
Rosen seemed like the obvious pick at the time, and when it turned out differently, Keim course corrected immediately without thought toward sunk cost - not an easy thing.
He's started to have some guys come through with second contracts and we'll see more soon.
The only pick that stands out at this point (early still) of being questionable is Isabella at the end of the 2nd round. If Andy can become a productive player, then that's fine. Most guys don't. But it was a premier pick spent on Isabella, he has to show out soon.

This year, Simmons, Jones, Fotu, and Lawrence will contribute.
Last year, Murray, Murphy, Allen, and Thompson are getting lots of time.
2018 Rosen moved on, but Kirk, Cole, and Edmonds are contributing big.
2017 The top two picks, Reddick and Baker have really come into their own this year.

 

[Finito]

In recent years, he's drafted much better. Simmons was the obvious pick and it's on the coaches from here to get him in.
Rosen seemed like the obvious pick at the time, and when it turned out differently, Keim course corrected immediately without thought toward sunk cost - not an easy thing.
He's started to have some guys come through with second contracts and we'll see more soon.
The only pick that stands out at this point (early still) of being questionable is Isabella at the end of the 2nd round. If Andy can become a productive player, then that's fine. Most guys don't. But it was a premier pick spent on Isabella, he has to show out soon.

This year, Simmons, Jones, Fotu, and Lawrence will contribute.
Last year, Murray, Murphy, Allen, and Thompson are getting lots of time.
2018 Rosen moved on, but Kirk, Cole, and Edmonds are contributing big.
2017 The top two picks, Reddick and Baker have really come into their own this year.

very interesting

 

[Cardsfaninlouky]

Steve Keim has his faults with drafting players yes, all GM's have players that don't work out. That being said, drafting players doesn't completely define the success of a good GM. Trades, FA signings also play into it. The roster for this yr is a good enough combination of all 3 phases to have us at 5-2 this yr so far & a half game back of first place. I still think we can win the West, I said that at the start of the season. Imho, I think 2021 will be a true test for SK. The salary cap saga coupled with our FA to be & how he puts our roster together. After going through the 2018 season till now, I'll take 5-2, 2nd place in the NFC West currently & the roster moves SK made any day of the week & twice on Sunday lol.

 

[Wanderer]

For me the point of grading a draft is scouting and pre draft analysis leading to drafting a good player. Yes he did spend a 2nd on Hopkins, but he was an already proven great player when we spent that pick on him.

Kiem definitely gets credit for pulling the trade off, but I wouldn't involve that into draft success in any way.

I look at it as return on your asset.

Kiem has gotten an incredible return on a good, not great asset.

If he had traded 2x 1st round picks and a 3rd for Hopkins then the return would not be as impressive.

Being able to flip 2 2nd round picks into an All Pro WR and Edge is an incredible return on investment.

 

[Wanderer]

In recent years, he's drafted much better. Simmons was the obvious pick and it's on the coaches from here to get him in.
Rosen seemed like the obvious pick at the time, and when it turned out differently, Keim course corrected immediately without thought toward sunk cost - not an easy thing.
He's started to have some guys come through with second contracts and we'll see more soon.
The only pick that stands out at this point (early still) of being questionable is Isabella at the end of the 2nd round. If Andy can become a productive player, then that's fine. Most guys don't. But it was a premier pick spent on Isabella, he has to show out soon.

This year, Simmons, Jones, Fotu, and Lawrence will contribute.
Last year, Murray, Murphy, Allen, and Thompson are getting lots of time.
2018 Rosen moved on, but Kirk, Cole, and Edmonds are contributing big.
2017 The top two picks, Reddick and Baker have really come into their own this year.

Not falling into the sunk cost vacuum, may have set the franchise up for their best run ever.

I don’t think people realize how outside the box that was, credit to Bidwill as well. NFL teams chase value of missed picks and lose competive Windows all the time.

 

[AZCrazy]

Depth, also, will carry this team farther than front line talent in the age of universal injury. He's improved that markedly in the last two years also.

 

[HairZach]

When I look at a GM I think "what have you done for me lately". In Kiem's case the answer is "a lot".