Assuming Joseph Gets an HC Job

[QuebecCard]

A few random thoughts....

I suspect that the "Cardinals forced Arians out" conspiracy theorists don't believe Bowles would come to Arizona.

In retrospect... Bowles had a lot of defensive talent in 2013-2015... peak Patrick Peterson, Tyrann Matthieu, Calais Campbell, John Abraham / Dwight Freeney, Tony Jefferson, Dan Williams & Frostee Rucker, both Karlos Dansby and Daryl Washington in 2013, peak Antonio Cromartie in 2014, and a bunch of solid role players. I wonder whether he'd be as good with the talent on the current team?

Would the Buccaneers really fire a black head coach after one down year? Could they get someone better for the upcoming rebuild?

If the Buccaneers are considering trying to "keep the band together" one more year, it will surely remind Arians (and Bowles) of why he left the Cardinals when he did. No way to win with the old, thin roster remaining, and no patience for a rebuild.

...dave

I can think of a team that did, and that 'unnamed' H-C just led Carolina over the Bucs.

 

[Stout]

That was just a perfect throw and catch. It happens. Cardinals are playing other professionals too.

He was well beaten for that throw. Besides, t's a convenient story line to defend the defense and say, "The other guys are good too." Folks are arguing Dalton only put up numbers late. Uh, very much false, regardless of how good of a play it was.

 

[Zalixar]

He was well beaten for that throw. Besides, t's a convenient story line to defend the defense and say, "The other guys are good too." Folks are arguing Dalton only put up numbers late. Uh, very much false, regardless of how good of a play it was.

The defense has been doing it's job for the most part, including 2 pick sixes on a game you want to criticize, and generally playing much better than the offense.

What you want everyone to say? Our defense sucks? Our offense sucks? Our team and staff suck? Well duh, the Cardinals SUCK. They have ALWAYS sucked save for a few good years and they will forever suck for our lifetime.

Welcome to being a fan.

 

[PACardsFan]

He was well beaten for that throw. Besides, t's a convenient story line to defend the defense and say, "The other guys are good too." Folks are arguing Dalton only put up numbers late. Uh, very much false, regardless of how good of a play it was.

Agree. As we get familiar with VJ’s system, it’s obvious that we can’t be balanced in stopping both the run and pass. It’s either we don’t have the talent to do both or his system doesn’t emphasize that. He goes into every game trying to stop the one area that can do the most damage to our D. The Saints had been really killing it against the run. They ran for 228 against Cincinnati, 235 against Seattle, in their last 2 games. Conversely, Dalton threw for under 200 in both games. In tallying up all those rushing yards, they beat Seattle & really should have beaten Cincy. I’m sure VJ put everything into the game plan to stop the run & force Dalton to beat us with his arm. And even though Dalton threw for 350 yards, he also got picked 3 times, with 2 pick 6’s. Meanwhile, we did hold them to 85 yards rushing, which is really what the Saints have to succeed at in order to win. Yes, when they got down 14, they started passing more. But, the Cardinals didn’t start out great on O to start the second half, so NO had their opportunity to run & still get back in the game. But, we stopped their running game at the critical junctures of the game.

 

[Zalixar]

Agree. As we get familiar with VJ’s system, it’s obvious that we can’t be balanced in stopping both the run and pass. It’s either we don’t have the talent to do both or his system doesn’t emphasize that. He goes into every game trying to stop the one area that can do the most damage to our D. The Saints had been really killing it against the run. They ran for 228 against Cincinnati, 235 against Seattle, in their last 2 games. Conversely, Dalton threw for under 200 in both games. In tallying up all those rushing yards, they beat Seattle & really should have beaten Cincy. I’m sure VJ put everything into the game plan to stop the run & force Dalton to beat us with his arm. And even though Dalton threw for 350 yards, he also got picked 3 times, with 2 pick 6’s. Meanwhile, we did hold them to 85 yards rushing, which is really what the Saints have to succeed at in order to win. Yes, when they got down 14, they started passing more. But, the Cardinals didn’t start out great on O to start the second half, so NO had their opportunity to run & still get back in the game. But, we stopped their running game at the critical junctures of the game.

Why point out any positives when one can point out only the negatives? What's wrong with you?

 

[Stout]

The defense has been doing it's job for the most part, including 2 pick sixes on a game you want to criticize, and generally playing much better than the offense.

What you want everyone to say? Our defense sucks? Our offense sucks? Our team and staff suck? Well duh, the Cardinals SUCK. They have ALWAYS sucked save for a few good years and they will forever suck for our lifetime.

Welcome to being a fan.

I sense I touched a nerve lol

I gave a simple response to the totally inaccurate assertions that the D only surrendered those stats to Dalton due to garbage time. A more erroneous assertion cannot be made.

As to your post, yes, the defense got two pick 6s, which pretty much won us the game. Yes, the defense was bad early and it was bad late. Both can be and are true. Hell, one of the pick 6s was only possible because of Wilson's bad coverage; if he wasn't beaten, he wouldn't have been "in position" to intercept the ball the open receiver muffed straight to him.

It's not as simple as saying "the defense was awesome!" or "the defense sucked!" It's much more nuanced than that.

 

[Zalixar]

I sense I touched a nerve lol

I gave a simple response to the totally inaccurate assertions that the D only surrendered those stats to Dalton due to garbage time. A more erroneous assertion cannot be made.

As to your post, yes, the defense got two pick 6s, which pretty much won us the game. Yes, the defense was bad early and it was bad late. Both can be and are true. Hell, one of the pick 6s was only possible because of Wilson's bad coverage; if he wasn't beaten, he wouldn't have been "in position" to intercept the ball the open receiver muffed straight to him.

It's not as simple as saying "the defense was awesome!" or "the defense sucked!" It's much more nuanced than that.

Nerve? No, but external pessimism does get a little weird when this defense has been surprisingly much better, considering how s**t our offense has been.

Who has said that our defense was awesome?

Offense scored the most amount of points all year. And complete conjecture that the defense would have been bad in the 2nd half if we weren't playing prevent D, aka giving up free yards/scores as it always does for every team.

2nd half defense has put the clamp on every single game, omitting week 1 from all stats, no reason to believe they wouldn't clamp 2nd half if it was a closer game. They probably score close to 20-23 points.

As just mentioned, they stopped the run, which was their bread and butter. Without that first bomb, dalton was whatever. Kyler is looking pretty pedestrian without his deep balls, we were 100% banking on those every game. Sometimes the other team will get those too.

 

[Stout]

Nerve? No, but external pessimism does get a little weird when this defense has been surprisingly much better, considering how s**t our offense has been.

Who has said that our defense was awesome?

Offense scored the most amount of points all year. And complete conjecture that the defense would have been bad in the 2nd half if we weren't playing prevent D, aka giving up free yards/scores as it always does for every team.

2nd half defense has put the clamp on every single game, omitting week 1 from all stats, no reason to believe they wouldn't clamp 2nd half if it was a closer game. They probably score close to 20-23 points.

As just mentioned, they stopped the run, which was their bread and butter. Without that first bomb, dalton was whatever. Kyler is looking pretty pedestrian without his deep balls, we were 100% banking on those every game. Sometimes the other team will get those too.

I'll just leave these here, which are untrue:

Yeah because they were massively down most of the game and Dalton had to wing it and the D played to not get burnt deep but gave up some big YAC plays.

And most of his production came from 17pts onward when we were playing a prevent defence, to the point where we sometimes sent 3 in the pass rush and Dalton had plenty of time to find a receiver.

CONTEXT matters.

But I think you think the same. It wasn't the first bomb, it was soft against the Saints on the first drive leading up to the bomb, then the bomb, allowing the Saints good drives on their next two possessions. The defense was not good early or late. They got the two pick 6s in the middle and did enough to help us win the game. They have been better than advertised, but that has largely been in 2nd halves. Unless you have a stellar offense--which we don't--you can't be bad on defense in first halves and only then lock it down. As has been mentioned ad nauseum, the defense set records for giving up points to begin all 3 of our opening games. No bueno.

So, better than we thought, but still not good enough.

 

[Dayman]

Yeah because they were massively down most of the game and Dalton had to wing it and the D played to not get burnt deep but gave up some big YAC plays.

And most of his production came from 17pts onward when we were playing a prevent defence, to the point where we sometimes sent 3 in the pass rush and Dalton had plenty of time to find a receiver.

CONTEXT matters.

With 2 minutes left in the first half and the game TIED 14-14, Dalton was 8/10 for 169 yards with 2 TDs and 1 Int for a passer rating of 118.8. So half of his production came when the game was 100% still in reach. Saying most of their production was due to playing with a lead simply isn't true. Context matters, indeed.

 

[Zalixar]

With 2 minutes left in the first half and the game TIED 14-14, Dalton was 8/10 for 169 yards with 2 TDs and 1 Int for a passer rating of 118.8. So half of his production came when the game was 100% still in reach. Saying most of their production was due to playing with a lead simply isn't true. Context matters, indeed.

And every game save 1 we put the clamp on the opponent in the 2nd half. No surprise he did well early. Also the first time we played with a lead this year, and a substantial one at that.

 

[QuebecCard]

With 2 minutes left in the first half and the game TIED 14-14, Dalton was 8/10 for 169 yards with 2 TDs and 1 Int for a passer rating of 118.8. So half of his production came when the game was 100% still in reach. Saying most of their production was due to playing with a lead simply isn't true. Context matters, indeed.

More relevant, it was 28-14 for the Cards at halftime.

The Saints scored 20 in the second half, and Dalton passed for 192 in the two final quarters.

Half of 361 passing yards = 180.5.

Add Dalton's passing and running stats for a gain, and, yes, most of his production was when behind.

Facts!

 

[Dayman]

More relevant, it was 28-14 for the Cards at halftime.

The Saints scored 20 in the second half, and Dalton passed for 192 in the two final quarters.

Half of 361 passing yards = 180.5.

Add Dalton's passing and running stats for a gain, and, yes, most of his production was when behind.

Facts!

Did you seriously try to do a message board mic drop because I rounded up 10 yards? After you said that the majority of Dalton's production came against our prevent defense? That's pretty crazy, even for this board.

 

[Stout]

Did you seriously try to do a message board mic drop because I rounded up 10 yards? After you said that the majority of Dalton's production came against our prevent defense? That's pretty crazy, even for this board.

No, that's not crazy, that's @QuebecCard.

 

[BritCard]

He was well beaten for that throw. Besides, t's a convenient story line to defend the defense and say, "The other guys are good too." Folks are arguing Dalton only put up numbers late. Uh, very much false, regardless of how good of a play it was.

NO had 14 points at the half. 17 at the end of Q3. Dalton did only put up numbers late.

They got to 24 with 11 minutes remaining. And their final 10 points came in the final 4 minutes.

They moved the ball well underneath because with a big lead you want to make sure their drives burn as much time as possible and you don't give up big scores quickly.

I'm not saying the defense was great, they weren't, but also the stats are heavily contributed to by the situation.

Also having watched the Wilson TD back again (it's on Warner's All 22 breakdown) I don't think that's all on Wilson. The safeties borked that one.

 

[BritCard]

With 2 minutes left in the first half and the game TIED 14-14, Dalton was 8/10 for 169 yards with 2 TDs and 1 Int for a passer rating of 118.8. So half of his production came when the game was 100% still in reach. Saying most of their production was due to playing with a lead simply isn't true. Context matters, indeed.

They had 17 points until 11 minutes left in Q4. So yeah, most of their production came when the game was over.

 

[Stout]

NO had 14 points at the half. 17 at the end of Q3. Dalton did only put up numbers late.

They got to 24 with 11 minutes remaining. And their final 10 points came in the final 4 minutes.

They moved the ball well underneath because with a big lead you want to make sure their drives burn as much time as possible and you don't give up big scores quickly.

I'm not saying the defense was great, they weren't, but also the stats are heavily contributed to by the situation.

Also having watched the Wilson TD back again (it's on Warner's All 22 breakdown) I don't think that's all on Wilson. The safeties borked that one.

The defense sucked early. They put us in a hole--again--and only got bailed out by a dumb Andy Dalton throw that was picked by Hamilton after a 15-play, 65-yard drive that drained almost 9 minutes off the clock. Even with that, the Saints scored touchdowns on 2 of their first 3 offensive possessions. The early game stats on our defense are absolutely putrid. Thank God for the Red Rifle evening the playing field.

 

[cardsfanmd]

Assuming I win the lottery tomorrow, I’m going to buy a small island in the Caribbean.

 

[Stout]

Assuming I win the lottery tomorrow, I’m going to buy a small island in the Caribbean.

Hey, can you toss a board member a nice house just north of Pittsburgh?

 

[BritCard]

The defense sucked early. They put us in a hole--again--and only got bailed out by a dumb Andy Dalton throw that was picked by Hamilton after a 15-play, 65-yard drive that drained almost 9 minutes off the clock. Even with that, the Saints scored touchdowns on 2 of their first 3 offensive possessions. The early game stats on our defense are absolutely putrid. Thank God for the Red Rifle evening the playing field.

The defense put us in a hole apart from the 3 interceptions?

They started with the ball so they had the early advantage. The biggest lead they had was 14-6 and the hole was as much, if not more, about us not being able (again) to score TD's early with our first 2 drives settling for FG's.

But yes, the defense was bad, if you ignore all the good things they did...

 

[Stout]

The defense put us in a hole apart from the 3 interceptions?

They started with the ball so they had the early advantage. The biggest lead they had was 14-6 and the hole was as much, if not more, about us not being able (again) to score TD's early with our first 2 drives settling for FG's.

But yes, the defense was bad, if you ignore all the good things they did...

I said early, not throughout. Bomb TD 1st drive. NEARLY A NINE MINUTE SECOND DRIVE. Third drive TD. They only avoided a 21 or 17 point opening three drives with a bad Red Rifle throw.

The defense clearly sucked early. Then, late in the 2nd quarter, the defense clearly stepped up. Nevertheless, the defense sucked early. Your obsession with this topic is unreal. Props to the D for the pick 6s, and negatives for how they started and finished the game.

 

[QuebecCard]

Did you seriously try to do a message board mic drop because I rounded up 10 yards? After you said that the majority of Dalton's production came against our prevent defense? That's pretty crazy, even for this board.

No need for a so-called MIC Drop.

You made a point, I made a counterpoint. Mine was factually correct.

"Crazy' is you taking it this way!

 

[QuebecCard]

No, that's not crazy, that's @QuebecCard.

Too funny coming from Mr. Gibbering hysterics!

 

[Crimson Warrior]

Gentlemen, gentlemen! Please! My goodness...there's no need to go after each other like rabid german shepherds..

To be perfectly fair to VJ, the defense has been shaky. We we're mauled by the Chiefs, have given up a ton of Q1 points, and were fortunate that Dalton make a couple of poor decisions, because he otherwise had his way with our secondary.

With that said, I also think VJ has is making a pretty good version of chicken salad using the chicken feathers with which he has been provided. Our front seven depth is terrible, and he's depending on starting minutes from secondary guys like Hamilton and Wilson, who while game, are not proven NFL starters by any means. The depth at CB behind Wilson and Hamilton is... well... let's just say "not great". Yet still our defense kept our struggling O in games vs. PHI and SEA.

And, I actually think they have a chance to be better as the year goes on (assuming they can somehow replace R. Lawrence's production), but I'm also pretty worried about this game coming on on Sun. Sunday will actually be a pretty good test for just exactly how good is Vance's scheme and our defense overall.

 

[Stout]

Gentlemen, gentlemen! Please! My goodness...there's no need to go after each other like rabid german shepherds..

To be perfectly fair to VJ, the defense has been shaky. We we're mauled by the Chiefs, have given up a ton of Q1 points, and were fortunate that Dalton make a couple of poor decisions, because he otherwise had his way with our secondary.

With that said, I also think VJ has is making a pretty good version of chicken salad using the chicken feathers with which he has been provided. Our front seven depth is terrible, and he's depending on starting minutes from secondary guys like Hamilton and Wilson, who while game, are not proven NFL starters by any means. The depth at CB behind Wilson and Hamilton is... well... let's just say "not great". Yet still our defense kept our struggling O in games vs. PHI and SEA.

And, I actually think they have a chance to be better as the year goes on (assuming they can somehow replace R. Lawrence's production), but I'm also pretty worried about this game coming on on Sun. Sunday will actually be a pretty good test for just exactly how good is Vance's scheme and our defense overall.

Very well stated.