Assuming You Want the Rumors I’m Hearing

[Krangodnzr]

This basically saying the cards were right not to draft a center last year because the centers are better this year.

They were right not to draft a center because of Froholdt, but the class is better this year any way. My point in saying that they are better this year is because some select posters acted like the world was ending because the Cardinals didn't select a center and this year's class is better anyway.

The only way they could be “right” is if they knew the centers would be better this year. This is you essentially saying to wait bc the next year’s crop would be better, no? Did I misunderstand your point?

Yes, you did misunderstand. I'm happy for how Froholdt worked out.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I could see that, because they are already saying next year's crop of QBs is worse. Putting more pressure on teams to move up this year, which could work if the Cards trade down.

I'd argue QB is the only position that I'm looking at college and judging who is going to come out approximately when.

If I were QB needy, I would've punted on the position and waited last year because it was very likely to be better with Caleb and Drake eligible.

 

[Harry]

Harry- You hear anything about Blake Fisher...RT from Notre Dame?

Hes a redshirt sophomore, and I think most expected him to return for anothe year, maybe take over LT from Alt....but he seems like he could be a really interesting kid in the late 3rd round?

As I posted elsewhere, my preference (assuming we dont draft Alt at #4) would be to move Paris to LT and then bring in a later round guy to compete with Beachum for the RT spot. I like Beachum a lot...I think hes a pro and has done nothing but be solid since bringing him in, so I would be fine with him starting at RT for us...but I know he's not a long term solution.

Fisher has started 25 games for ND. Hes 6'6 315, and seems to have correctable weaknesses with technique...but is already a pretty solid player.

Thoughts?

Sorry medical slow down. Getting PRP next week. Quite a few people like Fisher as a prospect. He needs work to be a finished product. He has good potential but needs quite a bit of polishing both in run blocking and pass protection. He‘s lacking that mean streak I fancy, but he works hard. I think he’s round 3, but others have him in 2.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I'd argue QB is the only position that I'm looking at college and judging who is going to come out approximately when.

If I were QB needy, I would've punted on the position and waited last year because it was very likely to be better with Caleb and Drake eligible.

Normally I agree. But I’ll bet that stroud ends up the best qb of both drafts.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Normally I agree. But I’ll bet that stroud ends up the best qb of both drafts.

It's possible. I know I downgraded Stroud because 1) Ohio State QBs have failed so many times 2) I never really saw him face any adversity much in college.

That's actually one of the reasons I really like Drake Maye: we say him have to face a ton of adversity since Chapel Hill doesn't have the same type of talent you see at the best schoolsm

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

It's possible. I know I downgraded Stroud because 1) Ohio State QBs have failed so many times 2) I never really saw him face any adversity much in college.

That's actually one of the reasons I really like Drake Maye: we say him have to face a ton of adversity since Chapel Hill doesn't have the same type of talent you see at the best schoolsm

Personally I these two years are an interest set of data points. Last year I would’ve said 2024 crop looks better. But I’ve soured on Williams and maye and don’t think highly of jj or Daniels. Nix and Penix make it deep, but unsure how “great” it is. I actually think both stroud and Levis could be tops in both classes.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Personally I these two years are an interest set of data points. Last year I would’ve said 2024 crop looks better. But I’ve soured on Williams and maye and don’t think highly of jj or Daniels. Nix and Penix make it deep, but unsure how “great” it is. I actually think both stroud and Levis could be tops in both classes.

Don't forget Bryce Young was the top guy last year. I wast a fan of him at all because he reminds of a smaller less talented Drew Brees.

Stroud landed in a really good situation; Slowik looks to be the next star coach from the Shanahan tree and the Texans added a ton of weapons last year. It was hard to predict that the Texans would have success immediately, but it did.

I still think Maye and Williams are more talented. They both faced more adversity than Stroud ever did in college. Both QBs are more mobile too.

I'm not high on Levis as being anything more than a perennial tease, and I'm definitely not a Richardson fan and wouldn't have touched him in round one last year.

Right now I think legitimately 5 QBs could go round one and I think if Stroud was in this class he would be fourth.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Don't forget Bryce Young was the top guy last year. I wast a fan of him at all because he reminds of a smaller less talented Drew Brees.

Stroud landed in a really good situation; Slowik looks to be the next star coach from the Shanahan tree and the Texans added a ton of weapons last year. It was hard to predict that the Texans would have success immediately, but it did.

I still think Maye and Williams are more talented. They both faced more adversity than Stroud ever did in college. Both QBs are more mobile too.

I'm not high on Levis as being anything more than a perennial tease, and I'm definitely not a Richardson fan and wouldn't have touched him in round one last year.

Right now I think legitimately 5 QBs could go round one and I think if Stroud was in this class he would be fourth.

All of that may be accurate and with hindsight on stroud and levis (he’s as physically talented as any of the prospects - particularly the bazooka he totes, and talk about playing with inferior talent around him . . .) I still think they’ll be better than anyone in this draft. Richardson actually surprised me too last season. If he can stay healthy (a HUGE if) he may also factor in more highly than these guys.

I think Williams and jj don’t have the mental/emotional toughness necessary. I think maye was somewhat disappointing this year. I don’t see “special” there. I just can’t past my asu bias of Daniel. He was SO bad there after a promising frosh season. I think nix has journeyman starter written all over him. If anyone surprises I think it may be Penix. But it would definitely be a surprise with his injuries and awkward mechanics.

 

[Krangodnzr]

All of that may be accurate and with hindsight on stroud and levis (he’s as physically talented as any of the prospects - particularly the bazooka he totes, and talk about playing with inferior talent around him . . .) I still think they’ll be better than anyone in this draft. Richardson actually surprised me too last season. If he can stay healthy (a HUGE if) he may also factor in more highly than these guys.

This might just be a product of how young QBs are treated these days. You can expect to see a decent productive player a lot quicker than what we saw in the past. That's one of the reasons I believed the Cardinals should move on from Rosen because even in a tough situation he showed very little promise.

I think Williams and jj don’t have the mental/emotional toughness necessary. I think maye was somewhat disappointing this year.

You say all this and then talk up Levis who was substantially worse at Kentucky than either Williams or Maye were last year.

I think that Maye and Williams have way better traits than any QB last year. Look at how well Maye moves for such a big kid and how well he slings it. Chapel Hill didn't really have adequate talent around him and he was under siege almost every game and still played fairly well. Williams didn't have the talent he had the year before and also played a lot of really good teams. Stroud essentially played with five first round picks in his WR corps and a pretty much every OL was at least draftable.

I don’t see “special” there.

Sometimes special is what you see in the process, not the results. Bryce Young had special results, but the process often wasn't.

I just can’t past my asu bias of Daniel. He was SO bad there after a promising frosh season.

Agree here. You have to be exceedingly cautious with college players that are finally good in year five. So much of why ASU didn't win more especially in his sophomore year was him. He didn't seem to take the game seriously and I'm leery of guys like that.

I think nix has journeyman starter written all over him. If anyone surprises I think it may be Penix. But it would definitely be a surprise with his injuries and awkward mechanics.

I think McCarthy is going to surprise though. He's just a winner and if you listen to what scouts are saying, their is a clear belief that Michigan limited him and that he is actually capable of doing a lot more.

 

[Goldfield]

Ok you two hijacked the thread.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

This might just be a product of how young QBs are treated these days. You can expect to see a decent productive player a lot quicker than what we saw in the past. That's one of the reasons I believed the Cardinals should move on from Rosen because even in a tough situation he showed very little promise.

You say all this and then talk up Levis who was substantially worse at Kentucky than either Williams or Maye were last year.

I think that Maye and Williams have way better traits than any QB last year. Look at how well Maye moves for such a big kid and how well he slings it. Chapel Hill didn't really have adequate talent around him and he was under siege almost every game and still played fairly well. Williams didn't have the talent he had the year before and also played a lot of really good teams. Stroud essentially played with five first round picks in his WR corps and a pretty much every OL was at least draftable.

Sometimes special is what you see in the process, not the results. Bryce Young had special results, but the process often wasn't.

Agree here. You have to be exceedingly cautious with college players that are finally good in year five. So much of why ASU didn't win more especially in his sophomore year was him. He didn't seem to take the game seriously and I'm leery of guys like that.

I think McCarthy is going to surprise though. He's just a winner and if you listen to what scouts are saying, their is a clear belief that Michigan limited him and that he is actually capable of doing a lot more.

Who said anything about results? Watching them I didn’t see special. The crying and mama stuff with Caleb as well as the rumors about not wanting to go to certain teams are glaring warning signs to me.

We’ve seen jJ every week on tv for multiple seasons. Talk about a dude carried by a defense and run game. He was meh in the biggest game of his life. Don’t see it.

Maye - watching him just never made me perk up. I kept watching wanting to see something next level. And just didn’t see it.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Ok you two hijacked the thread.

Sorry. I’ll return you to your normal programming.

 

[Stout]

Who said anything about results? Watching them I didn’t see special. The crying and mama stuff with Caleb as well as the rumors about not wanting to go to certain teams are glaring warning signs to me.

We’ve seen jJ every week on tv for multiple seasons. Talk about a dude carried by a defense and run game. He was meh in the biggest game of his life. Don’t see it.

Maye - watching him just never made me perk up. I kept watching wanting to see something next level. And just didn’t see it.

I remember being gung ho early this season about these QBs, but man, this year's QB prospects just haven't spoken to me. Super glad not to be needing one (yet). Especially sitting at 4.

 

[Chopper0080]

I heard Chopper say that, but I never heard any analysts specifically say that. Last year's draft just had 4-5 guys that some said we're worthy of a 1st.

McBride looks to be a top five type TE for the foreseeable future.

Absolutely. Kind of funny you say this now, because when we were talking about PJJ in relation to this years OT class, you made a comment to effect that Monti should have anticipated that this year's class would be better and I specifically stated it's hard to determine that a year out. I also remember others panning the McBride pick in the same vein last year.

Me too. He was right. lol

 

[Chopper0080]

C'mon, man, we have experts on this board that know exactly how to draft and will tell you you're uninformed if you don't agree with them. I have been told it is "Literally never a good idea to draft a guard in the 1st round." You know certain posters think they are experts and will hear nothing said against their opinions, man. It is known. These folks wouldn't take a Ray Lewis or a Mike Webster in round one because the "positional value" isn't there.

Mods. I am pretty sure this violates the board policy of no personal attacks.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Who said anything about results? Watching them I didn’t see special. The crying and mama stuff with Caleb as well as the rumors about not wanting to go to certain teams are glaring warning signs to me.

We’ve seen jJ every week on tv for multiple seasons. Talk about a dude carried by a defense and run game. He was meh in the biggest game of his life. Don’t see it.

Maye - watching him just never made me perk up. I kept watching wanting to see something next level. And just didn’t see it.

I felt the same way very strongly about Stroud and even moreso about Bryce Young last year.

With Maye I see NFL throws every game. You see throws from the far hash marks that very few college QBs can make. Maye also has crazy pedigree; pretty much his entire family are athletes so he grew up in an environment that was ultra competitive and oriented towards developing athletes.

I understand that issues with McCarthy, we just haven't seen 1st round on the field, but the draft and scouting isn't all about that and certainly worse QBs have gone in the first round in the past. If I'm Atlanta, I would absolutely take a gamble on him.

 

[Stout]

Mods. I am pretty sure this violates the board policy of no personal attacks.

#1--Butinsky much?
#2--The argument is over, so dig things up much?
#3--Posters are certainly allowed to object to other posters' behavior. I did so. Clearly you did as well. Not a personal attack.
#4--Were you just fishing by publicly posting? You know there's a report button, right?
#5--NM, I'm going back to my lunch

 

[Chopper0080]

#1--Butinsky much?
#2--The argument is over, so dig things up much?
#3--Posters are certainly allowed to object to other posters' behavior. I did so. Clearly you did as well. Not a personal attack.
#4--Were you just fishing by publicly posting? You know there's a report button, right?
#5--NM, I'm going back to my lunch

My post was in jest because I know how I can come off at times. I was poking fun at myself. Next time I will include a "lol" at the end.

EDIT: I also have no idea what #1 means.

 

[Goldfield]

My post was in jest because I know how I can come off at times. I was poking fun at myself. Next time I will include a "lol" at the end.

EDIT: I also have no idea what #1 means.

I never get offended by your opinions. You make your point and move on. If I agree or not it’s always a good point.

 

[cardpa]

My post was in jest because I know how I can come off at times. I was poking fun at myself. Next time I will include a "lol" at the end.

EDIT: I also have no idea what #1 means.

You have to be from certain areas of Pennsylvania to understand #1. I totally get it.

 

[Fitz4Ever]

Maye is hands down the best QB in this draft. He is going to be the next Josh Allen. Caleb Williams is going to be a primadonna bust who NFL players dont respect. Daniels is going to be a bust as well, as soon as he gets paid.

The next best QB with a chance to be something in the NFL is Bo Nix. He could end up being a mid level starter for several years...kind of like a Jeff Garcia

 

[QuebecCard]

Maye is hands down the best QB in this draft. He is going to be the next Josh Allen. Caleb Williams is going to be a primadonna bust who NFL players dont respent. Daniels is going to be a bust as well, as soon as he gets paid.

The next best QB with a chance to be something in the NFL is Bo Nix. He could end up being a mid level starter for several years...kind of like a Jeff Garcia

Then he'd better go north to the CFL for a couple of years of seasoning.

 

[Mulli]

You have to be from certain areas of Pennsylvania to understand #1. I totally get it.

I have been to certain areas of Pennsylvania a few times, so I got it.

 

[Cards Crazy]

I felt the same way very strongly about Stroud and even moreso about Bryce Young last year.

With Maye I see NFL throws every game. You see throws from the far hash marks that very few college QBs can make. Maye also has crazy pedigree; pretty much his entire family are athletes so he grew up in an environment that was ultra competitive and oriented towards developing athletes.

I understand that issues with McCarthy, we just haven't seen 1st round on the field, but the draft and scouting isn't all about that and certainly worse QBs have gone in the first round in the past. If I'm Atlanta, I would absolutely take a gamble on him.

I dont Know anything about Maye but lets Compare Ok at the worst we see Trubisky (Yikes) at the best we see Allen at Buffalo (Yeah) would anyone take that risk I guess thats why all the scouts and Gm's get the big bucks Personally I would take the risk but I dont have a voice in the matter

 

[Fitz4Ever]

I dont Know anything about Maye but lets Compare Ok at the worst we see Trubisky (Yikes) at the best we see Allen at Buffalo (Yeah) would anyone take that risk I guess thats why all the scouts and Gm's get the big bucks Personally I would take the risk but I dont have a voice in the matter

Trubisky went 11-3 and made a probowl his 2nd year in the league. I think had he gone to a better organization he would still be starting for them.

Maye is for sure worth the risk of picking him top 3...especially if you aren't trading up. Hes not a lights out prospect like and Andrew Luck...so if I was giving up multiple 1sts and tearing up our draft for the next 3 years, I would have more hesitation....but I think he is WAY more of a sure thing to be a quality NFL starter than Caleb Williams.