ASU and UofA All Time Great Players; Rankings

[ajcardfan]

Agreed, but I think we have a chance this year for both schools to break the 9-win threshold.

How often has that happened? Usually, just one of the schools flirts with a record like that.

 

[ASUCHRIS]

We're getting way sidetracked here but that's a great article. The shift back inwards has been so noticeable in Phoenix over the years which I have seen firsthand working in the property management business. Everyone wants to move to Arcadia and North Central, two older yet much more walkable areas than the suburbs.

Yep, great read. I moved downtown at the beginning of the year and couldn't be happier. Wherever I move next, I imagine it will be somewhere in downtown/central phx, with easy access to the light rail.

 

[HooverDam]

Gadd, how do you see UA getting to 9 wins? They do have one of the easiest schedules of any BCS team, and ASU one of the toughest, so 9 might be tricky for either team. I think ASU has more talent, depth and experience, if the schedules were flipped, ASU would be almost a lock for 9 wins.

My way too early predictions, being as optimistic as possible for both teams:

UofA

NAU W
UNLV W
UTSA W
@ Washington L
@ USC L
Utah W
@ Colorado W
@ California W
UCLA L
Wazzu W
Oregon L
@ ASU L

Thats 7-5 for UA. Though the ASU-UA game can always go either way, so maybe thats 8 wins. But I don't see where else they'd pull a win from, maybe @ Washington makes the most sense, but those teams seem relatively even and home filed could be the determining factor.

Its amazing how lousy UAs OoC schedule is.

ASU

Sacramento St W
Wisconsin W
@ Stanford L
USC W
Notre Dame L
Colorado W
Washington W
@ Wazzu W
@ Utah W
Oregon St W
@ UCLA L
UA W

Thats 9-3. Though ASU has a lot more unclear games than UA in my eyes. Wisconsin, Oregon St and USC could go the other way, but so could ND, Stanford and UCLA.

 

[Gaddabout]

Gadd, how do you see UA getting to 9 wins? They do have one of the easiest schedules of any BCS team, and ASU one of the toughest, so 9 might be tricky for either team. I think ASU has more talent, depth and experience, if the schedules were flipped, ASU would be almost a lock for 9 wins.

My way too early predictions, being as optimistic as possible for both teams:

UofA

NAU W
UNLV W
UTSA W
@ Washington L
@ USC L
Utah W
@ Colorado W
@ California W
UCLA L
Wazzu W
Oregon L
@ ASU L

Thats 7-5 for UA. Though the ASU-UA game can always go either way, so maybe thats 8 wins. But I don't see where else they'd pull a win from, maybe @ Washington makes the most sense, but those teams seem relatively even and home filed could be the determining factor.

Its amazing how lousy UAs OoC schedule is.

ASU

Sacramento St W
Wisconsin W
@ Stanford L
USC W
Notre Dame L
Colorado W
Washington W
@ Wazzu W
@ Utah W
Oregon St W
@ UCLA L
UA W

Thats 9-3. Though ASU has a lot more unclear games than UA in my eyes. Wisconsin, Oregon St and USC could go the other way, but so could ND, Stanford and UCLA.

Don't know why anyone would assume Washington and USC would be losses for UA. Those games are as even as any others in the conference. Here's a good maxim: You're almost always in any game in which you can run the ball. And UA, against pretty much anyone, will be able to run the ball. Can they score through the air? No idea, but they have capable personnel.

ASU has a MUCH tougher route to 9 wins, and it would be more impressive than UA with the same schedule. That never really seems to matter in December, though. Nine wins is nine wins.

ASU won 8 games last year and didn't have a single high quality win.

 

[HooverDam]

Don't know why anyone would assume Washington and USC would be losses for UA.

They're on the road. Middling teams, like ASU and UA were last year, and I think UA may be again this year, rarely do very well on the road against decent teams it seems. If either of those games were in Tucson, I'd think UA would have more of a shot.

Not that UA winning either of those games would be shocking, but at this point one would imagine theyll be the under dogs going in. Though UA does seem to have a penchant for knocking off at least 1 big time ranked school a year...maybe thats SC this year, who knows.

 

[TJ]

Gadd, how do you see UA getting to 9 wins? They do have one of the easiest schedules of any BCS team, and ASU one of the toughest, so 9 might be tricky for either team. I think ASU has more talent, depth and experience, if the schedules were flipped, ASU would be almost a lock for 9 wins.

My way too early predictions, being as optimistic as possible for both teams:

UofA

NAU W
UNLV W
UTSA W
@ Washington L
@ USC L
Utah W
@ Colorado W
@ California W
UCLA L
Wazzu W
Oregon L
@ ASU L

Thats 7-5 for UA. Though the ASU-UA game can always go either way, so maybe thats 8 wins. But I don't see where else they'd pull a win from, maybe @ Washington makes the most sense, but those teams seem relatively even and home filed could be the determining factor.

Its amazing how lousy UAs OoC schedule is.

ASU

Sacramento St W
Wisconsin W
@ Stanford L
USC W
Notre Dame L
Colorado W
Washington W
@ Wazzu W
@ Utah W
Oregon St W
@ UCLA L
UA W

Thats 9-3. Though ASU has a lot more unclear games than UA in my eyes. Wisconsin, Oregon St and USC could go the other way, but so could ND, Stanford and UCLA.

Unless one of the QBs comes out of the competition, UA isn't winning 9 games, but dont assume USC and (especially) UW are guaranteed losses. USC is also going through transition at QB, with Kiffin still at the helm, and UW is not as good as advertised particularly with Keith Price at QB. Last season's team wins 10 or more games against this cupcake schedule. This year? Not so much.

Additionally, you don't have ASU losing a single game at SDS. Wisc, ntOSU and UA are not guaranteed victories by any stretch of the imagination. You'll lose at least one of the three.

IMO, the Wisc game, although OOC, is a pivotal game for ASU. Like UofA's 2013 schedule, ASU's 2012 was a joke, so there are legitimate questions about how battle tested the team is. Wisconsin fans travel well and they have a stout defense and rushing attack. That game could provide a psychological boost for ASU or contribute to a downright collapse. You all should thank your lucky stars if you come out of the gates 3-2.

 

[TJ]

Ha! As someone who has followed college football recruiting intensely for 35 years and has actually covered it for a good stretch, shake your head at me at your own expense. There are lots of topics on this board in which I offer an unqualified opinion. On this topic, I actually have some professional expertise, particularly when it comes to ASU and UA.

I wasn't questioning your expertise; I know you know your stuff about CFB and I respect your opinions. Actually, I was pointing out the ridiculousness in your assertions. Saying I'm "delusional" and "don't know much about recruiting" is unequivocal nonsense.

But as someone that knows a thing or two about UofA recruiting, you ought to recall that under the Stoops and Mackovic regimes, the program got off to sluggish starts from a recruiting standpoint and took mostly 2* leftovers; also, towards the end of the Stoops's era, the cupboards were almost empty, especially on defense. With that said, there's reason for optimism (for once) in the UofA recruiting process.

 

[HooverDam]

. Like UofA's 2013 schedule, ASU's 2012 was a joke, .

Hhahahahahahaha

Yah scheduling Illinois and @ Missouri is the same as scheduling UNLV and UTSA at home. No difference there.

Illinois ended up being bad, Mizzou mediocre and ASU should've beaten them, but ASUs scheduling certainly wasn't a joke. They scheduled 2 BCS conference teams, one of which (Mizzou) is usually pretty good.

On the other hand, UA scheduled a school thats still pretty brand new to FCS, and UNLV, one of the worst FCS teams out there, that freakin' lost to NAU at home last year!

Comparing UAs schedule this year to ASUs last year is ridiculous.

Lets look ahead too:

ASU future schedules

2014:
Weber St
@ UNM
Notre Dame

2015:
UNM
@ LSU
Cal Poly

2016:
NAU
LSU
@ UTSA

UofA future schedules:

2014:
UNLV
@ UTSA
Nevada

2015:
UTSA
@ Nevada

2016:
BYU (in Glendale, AZ)
Grambling State


Don't see a difference in scheduling philosophies there? In fact, UofA doesn't have a BCS Conference team scheduled through 2020!!! ASU is clearly going with the classic A, B, C scheduling for OoC games, some years its A,A, C (like this year and last). UA on the other hand is going B,B,C and in some years B, C, C.

UA and ASU have different expectations for their football programs, and should. If UA needs to schedule a weak OOC slate to get to 6 wins every year, thats fine, but please, you make a fool of yourself if you compare ASU and UAs schedules.

 

[TJ]

Hhahahahahahaha

Yah scheduling Illinois and @ Missouri is the same as scheduling UNLV and UTSA at home. No difference there.

Illinois ended up being bad, Mizzou mediocre and ASU should've beaten them, but ASUs scheduling certainly wasn't a joke. They scheduled 2 BCS conference teams, one of which (Mizzou) is usually pretty good.

On the other hand, UA scheduled a school thats still pretty brand new to FCS, and UNLV, one of the worst FCS teams out there, that freakin' lost to NAU at home last year!

Comparing UAs schedule this year to ASUs last year is ridiculous.

The average win total of the FBS teams you beat was 3.4.

Brutal schedule.

 

[HooverDam]

The average win total of the FBS teams you beat was 3.4.

Brutal schedule.

So if LSUs program turns South this year and by the time ASU plays them they're where Auburn is today, that's ASUs fault?

ASU is scheduling BCS teams, and for the most part, BCS teams that are consistently bowl teams. You can't say the same for UA.

If you really think UA and ASUs scheduling is comparable, you're being incredibly silly.

 

[TJ]

So if LSUs program turns South this year and by the time ASU plays them they're where Auburn is today, that's ASUs fault?

ASU is scheduling BCS teams, and for the most part, BCS teams that are consistently bowl teams. You can't say the same for UA.

If you really think UA and ASUs scheduling is comparable, you're being incredibly silly.

Im not debating the scheduling of the respective schools. Re-read my post. I'm dismissing your assertion that your 2012 schedule was in any way, shape, or form a challenge and enough to claim your team was battle tested last season.

 

[HooverDam]

Im not debating the scheduling of the respective schools. Re-read my post. I'm dismissing your assertion that your 2012 schedule was in any way, shape, or form a challenge and enough to claim your team was battle tested last season.

Well I never asserted that, but OK. I said ASU had a good schedule last year, and they did. They scheduled quality teams, some of those teams ended up having injured QBs and disappointing years. There's nothing ASU can do about that.

On the whole though, if ASU continues to challenge itself in the OoC scheduling like it has done and is continuing to do, it'll come out in the wash that most years ASU will have a tougher than normal schedule.

Even with Illinois and Mizzou being down last year and ASU lucking into some P12 scheduling, ASUs 2012 schedule was vastly tougher than UAs 2013 schedule. To equate them to each other is laughable.

Even beyond UAs patsy OoC 2013 schedule, they got extremely lucky in the P-12 scheduling. Their road trips include Colorado and Cal, two of the conferences bottom feeders. They play ASU on the road, but home/road doesn't matter in that game. They play their toughest team, Oregon, at home and they miss Stanford.

 

[TJ]

Well I never asserted that, but OK. I said ASU had a good schedule last year, and they did. They scheduled quality teams, some of those teams ended up having injured QBs and disappointing years. There's nothing ASU can do about that.

The results are there to evaluate. Yes you scheduled two OOC BCS teams, but they turned out to be bottom feeders.

On the whole though, if ASU continues to challenge itself in the OoC scheduling like it has done and is continuing to do, it'll come out in the wash that most years ASU will have a tougher than normal schedule.

And if you perpetually lose, ASU looks foolish for trying to run with the big boys. Feast or famine proposition.

Even with Illinois and Mizzou being down last year and ASU lucking into some P12 scheduling, ASUs 2012 schedule was vastly tougher than UAs 2013 schedule. To equate them to each other is laughable.

Again I have the benefit of hindsight, you don't. I know that 2013 is a cream puff schedule for UofA. Results prove my point that 2012 was a cakewalk for ASU. This requires no further explanation.

Even beyond UAs patsy OoC 2013 schedule, they got extremely lucky in the P-12 scheduling. Their road trips include Colorado and Cal, two of the conferences bottom feeders. They play ASU on the road, but home/road doesn't matter in that game. They play their toughest team, Oregon, at home and they miss Stanford.

I wont dispute you here. I kind of wish UofA would've pulled some bigger names than BYU, Nevada, etc. but it is what it is.

We catch some breaks this season, but we also have personnel issues, particularly at QB.

 

[Dback Jon]

Hhahahahahahaha

Yah scheduling Illinois and @ Missouri is the same as scheduling UNLV and UTSA at home. No difference there.

Illinois ended up being bad, Mizzou mediocre and ASU should've beaten them, but ASUs scheduling certainly wasn't a joke. They scheduled 2 BCS conference teams, one of which (Mizzou) is usually pretty good.

On the other hand, UA scheduled a school thats still pretty brand new to FCS, and UNLV, one of the worst FCS teams out there, that freakin' lost to NAU at home last year!

Comparing UAs schedule this year to ASUs last year is ridiculous.

Lets look ahead too:

ASU future schedules

2014:
Weber St
@ UNM
Notre Dame

2015:
UNM
@ LSU
Cal Poly

2016:
NAU
LSU
@ UTSA

UofA future schedules:

2014:
UNLV
@ UTSA
Nevada

2015:
UTSA
@ Nevada

2016:
BYU (in Glendale, AZ)
Grambling State


Don't see a difference in scheduling philosophies there? In fact, UofA doesn't have a BCS Conference team scheduled through 2020!!! ASU is clearly going with the classic A, B, C scheduling for OoC games, some years its A,A, C (like this year and last). UA on the other hand is going B,B,C and in some years B, C, C.

UA and ASU have different expectations for their football programs, and should. If UA needs to schedule a weak OOC slate to get to 6 wins every year, thats fine, but please, you make a fool of yourself if you compare ASU and UAs schedules.

Why is ASU playing Weber instead of NAU in 2014?

 

[Gaddabout]

Unless one of the QBs comes out of the competition, UA isn't winning 9 games, but dont assume USC and (especially) UW are guaranteed losses. USC is also going through transition at QB, with Kiffin still at the helm, and UW is not as good as advertised particularly with Keith Price at QB. Last season's team wins 10 or more games against this cupcake schedule. This year? Not so much.

Additionally, you don't have ASU losing a single game at SDS. Wisc, ntOSU and UA are not guaranteed victories by any stretch of the imagination. You'll lose at least one of the three.

IMO, the Wisc game, although OOC, is a pivotal game for ASU. Like UofA's 2013 schedule, ASU's 2012 was a joke, so there are legitimate questions about how battle tested the team is. Wisconsin fans travel well and they have a stout defense and rushing attack. That game could provide a psychological boost for ASU or contribute to a downright collapse. You all should thank your lucky stars if you come out of the gates 3-2.

I can't remember the exact stat, but the B1G is something like 0-10 in road games against the Pac in the BCS era. ASU had no business thumping Iowa 44-7 in SDS. That Iowa team still ended up with 9 wins, IIRC. They don't seem to handle the travel or the heat very well.

I don't think that game is as assured as some of my fellow ASU fans, but I don't imagine that's the game ASU would lose at home, either. I think Wisconsin has upgraded their staff across the board and they do have some talent, but it's still a game early in the season with a brand new staff in a scheme in which they don't really have a QB that fits the new offense yet.

I always assume the UA game is a toss up. I think Oregon State is the game in which ASU will struggle, because they always seem to crap the bed against Mike Riley's teams.

 

[Gaddabout]

Why is ASU playing Weber instead of NAU in 2014?

IIRC, it was NAU's choice. ASU plays NAU again in 2016. The mandate is only for ASU/UA. NAU can opt out if they get a better payday somewhere else.

 

[Absolute Zero]

Well, let's see how the Arizona Republic has for the #21 player of all time for each school.

ASU: Pat Tillman

U of A: Bill Lueck:
http://www.azcentral.com/sports/ua/...-football-players-of-all-time-bill-lueck.html


Not too shabby

 

[Gaddabout]

Well, let's see how the Arizona Republic has for the #21 player of all time for each school.

ASU: Pat Tillman

I know people think Tillman was a slow-but-gritty guy who toughed his way into the NFL, but he really was one of the best college linebackers of the 90s. It was more than toughness. He was physically gifted. He was extremely bright, had good speed and an uncanny sense of timing and angles. He was also burning with some not-well-understood red-hot anger inside, and football was his outlet.

I don't have time to think about every linebacker I'd put on my 90s all-time college list, but I think Tillman would be on it with Ray Lewis.

 

[Absolute Zero]

Al Harris listed today for ASU, Trung Candidate for U of A, at #20.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...3921440.105611.460268044015398&type=1&theater

Totally forgot about Al Harris, that dude was a badass. I was only about ten years old when he was playing for ASU, but I remember him and Bob Kohrs on that awesome ASU defense.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Al Harris listed today for ASU, Trung Candidate for U of A, at #20.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...3921440.105611.460268044015398&type=1&theater

Totally forgot about Al Harris, that dude was a badass. I was only about ten years old when I was playing for ASU, but I remember him and Bob Kohrs on that awesome ASU defense.

He was also a really nice guy. He missed their (Bears) Super Bowl run if I recall and ended up having somewhat less of a career than I expected.

BTW, 10 years old is awfully young to be playing college football. You must have been a badass yourself.

Steve

 

[Gaddabout]

BTW, 10 years old is awfully young to be playing college football. You must have been a badass yourself.

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[Absolute Zero]

He was also a really nice guy. He missed their (Bears) Super Bowl run if I recall and ended up having somewhat less of a career than I expected.

BTW, 10 years old is awfully young to be playing college football. You must have been a badass yourself.

Steve

Man, I guess people are still reading this ASU board. Just checking.

 

[AzStevenCal]

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Awesome. But I think I'll stick with The Cap'n for breakfast.

Steve

 

[Absolute Zero]

OK, ASU Legend John Jefferson comes in at #7
http://www.azcentral.com/sports/asu...tball-players-of-all-time-john-jefferson.html

He comes in ahead of Hall of Famers Curly Culp and Charley Taylor.

 

[Absolute Zero]

Facilities aren't the issue. It's all about community pride, or lack of it. Very few are proud of living in Arizona, and in the lifetime of the current recruits, the in-state schools have done very little to instill it.

But let's be honest: When both schools have been at their best in the Pac era, the rosters have been about 2/3rds Californians. We obsess over in-state kids because it's a pride issue, and this year is very special with so many quality recruits. But if either school is going to stand up and be consistently good, they're going to win in SoCal, keep a couple of the game-changers in Arizona, and cherry pick in places like Texas and Colorado.

I look at the best players on ASU's all-time list and notice where they're from:

Curley Culp: Yuma
John Jefferson: Dallas
Eric Allen: LA
Danny White: Mesa
Jake Plummer: Idaho
Mike Haynes: LA
Randal McDaniel: Avondale
Todd Heap: Mesa
Pat Tillman: San Jose
Terrell Suggs: Chandler (by way of Minneapolis)
Ron Pritchard: Bay Area (Antioch, IIRC)
Will Sutton: LA
David Fulcher: LA
Dan Saleaumua: San Diego
The Malone brothers: Eloy, by way of Texas
Ben Hawkins: New Jersey
Bobby Mulgado: Pennsylvania
Jim Jeffcoat: New Jersey
Zach Miller: Mesa
John Mistler: Missouri
JR Redmond: LA
Woody Green: Portland
Todd Kalis: Minnesota

I could go on, but the local guys on that list don't even make up half the list. Some of ASU's very best players have been local, but the overall mix has never been some referendum on in-state recruiting.

OK, help me out here. They Mike Haynes today as #4. So we are down to the top 3. Danny White, Woody Green, and an O-lineman are left. Does that sound right? I am guessing that White will be #1.