Attention Dwight Howard Fans

[Arizona's Finest]

I seem to remember all the Dwight Howard man-love at the beginning of this year. E in particular raked me over the coals about how much better Howard is than Amare. Simmons named him most "untouchable" and on and on.

This just continues to prove my point that as sports fans we are WAAY to quick to look at the "what have you done for me lately" angle rather then a tried and true body of work. We are so reactionary that it kills me.

On to my point:

Brian Schmitz of the Orlando Sentinel: "A coach can rip into his superstar, but making a habit of it does not bode well for his job security. We will see if the Magic -- GM Otis Smith in particular --- have Stan Van Gundy's back in his taffy-pull with Dwight Howard. If not, Stan will be spending time with his family again should anything develop beyond a family-like tiff. Superstars always win the ego battles between coaches. Ah, it was refreshing to see quite frankly to see Van Gundy's rant, because maybe Dwight was getting too big for his britches, living the NBA life as 22-year-olds tend to do."


And did anyone see Van Gundys press conference last night??? He KILLED Howard saying he lost his focus and now wants to score all the time instead of doing what they need. We shall see where this goes but looks like Dwight has a little Primma donna in him too. In fact since the beginning of the month Amare actually has better rebounding/block numbers.

I'm not saying he is a bust by any stretch of the imagination but two months at the beginning of a season does not a career make.

I love Howard's game but give me STAT. I've actually seen him put a team on his shoulder in the playoffs before.

 

[slinslin]

Amare is a proven 30/12 guy night in and night out in the playoffs.

I don't really care about regular season stat comparisons to make an argument for a player. We know for a fact that Amare's real season begins in late April/May.

But if you actually look a bit closer Amare is SECOND in the league, only trailing Lebron, in "PER" which is one of the most indicative statistics for how well someone is playing. His total numbers aren't there because he plays just 32mpg and he does it on a very good team with 2 guys taking more shots than him unlike someone like Al Jefferson who is simply pulling a Zach Randolph pt2 on a horrible team, I can imagine what Amare's regular season stats would be like on a team like that playing extended minutes.

There is one 6'10+ player I'd take over Amare in the playoffs and that is Duncan and no real difference with Garnett but that is it.

Howard's defense was never all that to me anyway, he is a great rebounder but the rest of his skills are all average. If that wasn't the case his team would be better playing in the weak East but in reality even despite their weak schedule they have a worse record than the 9th team in the West.

 

[DeAnna]

And did anyone see Van Gundys press conference last night??? He KILLED Howard saying he lost his focus and now wants to score all the time instead of doing what they need.

Yep, I saw that. Ouch. He wants to be like Stat.

 

[Bufalay]

On a bad team, Amare's FG% would be way down. When he starts shooting a lot, he misses a lot more often.

 

[slinslin]

It would still be higher than the % of all those statstuffers on poor teams.

Of course it would go down but he'd likely average 30/11 on a team like that with still 50%FG and some more minutes while right now he is putting up 23/9 60%FG in rather limited minutes.

 

[jandaman]

Amare's talent offensively has never been questioned and everyone will agree that Amare has far deeper offensive arsenal than that of Dwight.


The question and knock on Amare is... every big men, especially talented ones... have career nights on him.. if not.. they still put up huge stats.

Defensively, outside of opposing teams penetrating and having layup attempts, in which Amare gets a lot of blocks that way, he is poor at keeping his man at bay...

So he positional defense definitely needs to improve... if he ever will.

The other factor as why people started picking Dwight is because Amare had 2 knee surgeries.... he is playing well now... but what about in 2-3 years? Will he require another surgery?... will he slow down quicker than Dwight or any other talented big men?


I like Amare, but to me he is still fragile. When things become straineous inside, when teams are banging him harder and he has to exert more energy and force on his knees. How much will they take away from his knees' durability? When the system becomes revolved around him, which means a more clogged inside not so loose defense... all the extra work he will need to do to get his offense going... how much will they take away from his knees? The jumpshot is good and all.. but do we want him to be a jump shooting big man?


Again, we all know Amare is a beast offensively. But the question here is can he endure the mileage and wear and tear he will no doubt cope in the near future.... and it'll only get more straineous.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Amare's talent offensively has never been questioned and everyone will agree that Amare has far deeper offensive arsenal than that of Dwight.


The question and knock on Amare is... every big men, especially talented ones... have career nights on him.. if not.. they still put up huge stats.

Defensively, outside of opposing teams penetrating and having layup attempts, in which Amare gets a lot of blocks that way, he is poor at keeping his man at bay...

So he positional defense definitely needs to improve... if he ever will.

The other factor as why people started picking Dwight is because Amare had 2 knee surgeries.... he is playing well now... but what about in 2-3 years? Will he require another surgery?... will he slow down quicker than Dwight or any other talented big men?


I like Amare, but to me he is still fragile. When things become straineous inside, when teams are banging him harder and he has to exert more energy and force on his knees. How much will they take away from his knees' durability? When the system becomes revolved around him, which means a more clogged inside not so loose defense... all the extra work he will need to do to get his offense going... how much will they take away from his knees? The jumpshot is good and all.. but do we want him to be a jump shooting big man?


Again, we all know Amare is a beast offensively. But the question here is can he endure the mileage and wear and tear he will no doubt cope in the near future.... and it'll only get more straineous.

I think everyone looks at Amares size and girth shock and thinks he should be this low post stalwart. I look at it another way. He wants to be a 6'10 SF. And really I am okay with that. His handle is as good as Odom's and I think with Shaq on the team his passing will get better. He is already a better shooter and finisher then anyone his size not named Dirk.

I think we are trying to pigeon hole the kid because as Suns fans we have always died for a quality big man. But the reality is Amare's desire is to be what Pat Riley described in his Utopian view of basket ball "all 5 players on the court are 6'10 who can handle, pass and shoot". Thats how he has refined his game and I'm guessing he wants to be Lamar Odom 2.0 except better at shooting, rebounding and finishing.

Who knows? Maybe Shaqs presence will reaffirm his desire to be a traditional post man. But playing with Steve and for Mike this long has caused him to exploit his skills in different ways. And thats not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[slinslin]

We will see if other big man will still have career nights now that we aren't undersized. I doubt it unless someone is simply really hot.

It's hard to defend someone in the paint when you are the only big man and have to stay out of foul trouble as good as you can while the other team knows that and tries to exploit it and even more so when the one you are defending is stronger or heavier or taller than you, or all of those things.

 

[tobiazz]

Alongside Shaq, I probably prefer Amare to Dwight, but Dwight is this generation's Moses Malone, a nice component to have on any team.

 

[SO91]

Amare is a proven 30/12 guy night in and night out in the playoffs.

I don't really care about regular season stat comparisons to make an argument for a player. We know for a fact that Amare's real season begins in late April/May.

But if you actually look a bit closer Amare is SECOND in the league, only trailing Lebron, in "PER" which is one of the most indicative statistics for how well someone is playing. His total numbers aren't there because he plays just 32mpg and he does it on a very good team with 2 guys taking more shots than him unlike someone like Al Jefferson who is simply pulling a Zach Randolph pt2 on a horrible team, I can imagine what Amare's regular season stats would be like on a team like that playing extended minutes.

There is one 6'10+ player I'd take over Amare in the playoffs and that is Duncan and no real difference with Garnett but that is it.

Howard's defense was never all that to me anyway, he is a great rebounder but the rest of his skills are all average. If that wasn't the case his team would be better playing in the weak East but in reality even despite their weak schedule they have a worse record than the 9th team in the West.

Won't disagree with anything you say here, but Amare does take the most shots on the team.

 

[jbeecham]

Anyone have a link to the audio of Van Gundy ripping into Dwight Howard?

 

[Treesquid PhD]

I think everyone looks at Amares size and girth shock and thinks he should be this low post stalwart. I look at it another way. He wants to be a 6'10 SF. And really I am okay with that. His handle is as good as Odom's and I think with Shaq on the team his passing will get better. He is already a better shooter and finisher then anyone his size not named Dirk.

I think we are trying to pigeon hole the kid because as Suns fans we have always died for a quality big man. But the reality is Amare's desire is to be what Pat Riley described in his Utopian view of basket ball "all 5 players on the court are 6'10 who can handle, pass and shoot". Thats how he has refined his game and I'm guessing he wants to be Lamar Odom 2.0 except better at shooting, rebounding and finishing.

Who knows? Maybe Shaqs presence will reaffirm his desire to be a traditional post man. But playing with Steve and for Mike this long has caused him to exploit his skills in different ways. And thats not necessarily a bad thing.

Sorry dude I just find this analogy almost unbelievably off.

 

[elindholm]

So the point is that Howard has a coach who rips into him for poor defense, but Stoudemire doesn't? All of these criticisms of Howard are the same as ones that have been lobbed at Stoudemire for years.

I think they're both great players, but I'd still prefer Howard.

 

[sLapzsHaQ]

Amare would be better, if not already, because he has Shaq on his side now. It's just amazing that he's Shaq's special project this season, so I would see Amare become the most dominant player in the NBA before Shaq retires.

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Sorry dude I just find this analogy almost unbelievably off.

My point is that its rare to have such a skilled player at such size.

If Amare can really hone that jump shot and ball handling he has unlimited offensive potential. There is no other even close comparison and thats why i reach with an Odom. Maybe Kevin Durant will later be a better correlation if he gets stronger down the road.

 

[DeAnna]

Seems like a lot of their fans agree with the coach
http://orlandomagiczone.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8891029871/m/2261079384

 

[Arizona's Finest]

So the point is that Howard has a coach who rips into him for poor defense, but Stoudemire doesn't? All of these criticisms of Howard are the same as ones that have been lobbed at Stoudemire for years.

I think they're both great players, but I'd still prefer Howard.

Fair enough.

But while I give credence to the fact that young players have ups and downs this would be the second time his team has gotten progressively worse (albeit under different coaches) after hot starts. That teams success is directly linked to him and his play. Not so much is it his numbers but rather his presence and defensive intensity. But now he's looking to get his shot. And in the process going away from defense and rebounding to reach his offensive potential.

Kind of reminds me of a younger player I once knew

 

[Arizona's Finest]

Seems like a lot of their fans agree with the coach
http://orlandomagiczone.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8891029871/m/2261079384

I just want to take the time here to thank Skkorp and all those that make this place possible. From important functionality to little detail everything seems to be better on ASFN.

I always come away from other boards feeling really bad for the poster's on those sites.

 

[Delmon Young]

Howard responded with 23 points and 24 boards against Denver last night.