Ayton’s Blocks

[Carolinacacti]

Why are you covering for him?

I'm not covering for him but it could be Len with 4 fouls in the first. Suns need him and yes he is not Dennis Rodmen.

 

[BC867]

That would make sense if he accumulated a ton of fouls in his first couple games, so he became leery of picking them up going forward. That hasn't happened though. He's been in foul trouble in 2, maybe 3 games, and it hasn't been out of the ordinary either. They're dumb fouls, not close calls the ref decided to hit him with. I just looked it up and he's only been in real foul trouble twice, against Denver & Jokic and against Philly & Embiid. Those were the two games I was thinking of and with how his man was able to score at will it's not surprising that he was in foul trouble because both of those guys went at him hard. Outside of those 2 games he's had 4 games where he picked up 4 fouls but it doesn't seem to have hurt his minutes and I don't recall him sitting for any unusual stretches because of foul trouble.

He hasn't been picking up fouls because he stopped putting himself in jeopardy, by not going up for blocks and trying to get all ball and nothing else, then having to ride the bench in foul trouble.

Why are you covering for him? He's not a threat to block shots right now. That's something he needs to work on. He won't suddenly start swatting shots away when the refs give him more leeway. He'll need a few summers of working on his timing to become a good shot blocker. Right now he's below average, at best, and that's probably the nicest way to describe his shot blocking prowess or lack thereof.

I'm "covering" for him because I want to see him develop his strong points (which look outstanding), then let him work on his weak points, such as blocking and being an animal in the post.

I see no sense in bashing him at the start of his pro career because he has weak points. The same with Booker.

Let's capitalize on the tremendous things they have to offer and not criticize them for their weak points. Not every shot blocker can do what Ayton is showing he can do otherwise. And not every Shooting Guard (which Booker should be) is also outstanding defensively like Michael.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

He hasn't been picking up fouls because he stopped putting himself in jeopardy, by not going up for blocks and trying to get all ball and nothing else, then having to ride the bench in foul trouble.


I'm "covering" for him because I want to see him develop his strong points (which look outstanding), then let him work on his weak points, such as blocking and being an animal in the post.

I see no sense in bashing him at the start of his pro career because he has weak points. The same with Booker.

Let's capitalize on the tremendous things they have to offer and not criticize them for their weak points. Not every shot blocker can do what Ayton is showing he can do otherwise. And not every Shooting Guard (which Booker should be) is also outstanding defensively like Michael.

Ah the old everyone gets a trophy approach. Not a fan. We know what these guys do well. And they do it really well. They don’t need to develop those elements of their games further. Hence I’d rather they focus on improving where they desperately need the development most.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Ayton is performing as expected imo. It is not wrong though to point out flaws in his game and want him to be improving.

 

[Cheesebeef]

That would make sense if he accumulated a ton of fouls in his first couple games, so he became leery of picking them up going forward. That hasn't happened though. He's been in foul trouble in 2, maybe 3 games, and it hasn't been out of the ordinary either. They're dumb fouls, not close calls the ref decided to hit him with. I just looked it up and he's only been in real foul trouble twice, against Denver & Jokic and against Philly & Embiid. Those were the two games I was thinking of and with how his man was able to score at will it's not surprising that he was in foul trouble because both of those guys went at him hard. Outside of those 2 games he's had 4 games where he picked up 4 fouls but it doesn't seem to have hurt his minutes and I don't recall him sitting for any unusual stretches because of foul trouble.

Why are you covering for him? He's not a threat to block shots right now. That's something he needs to work on. He won't suddenly start swatting shots away when the refs give him more leeway. He'll need a few summers of working on his timing to become a good shot blocker. Right now he's below average, at best, and that's probably the nicest way to describe his shot blocking prowess or lack thereof.

it's a rare moment when Ouchie, me and Poop Head all agree. the lengths to which a lot of you which pretzel yourselves into disbelieving what you're seeing on the court with Ayton's D (or lack thereof) in addition to twisting others arguments would be bizarre... but it's mostly the same exact people who did the same exact thing for McD all those years who blasted people who dared said otherwise... only to see the McD backers immediately turn against him, the moment he was fired as if they knew what they were talking about all along. Again... not surprising. It's the way most sports boards go.

Here's my bullet pointed argument on the subject. Ayton is much more limited defensively than I expected. Ayton is very gifted offensively. And Koko's crazy for not featuring him more in an offense that's lamer than my JV team at Phoenix Country Freaking Day School.

 

[Covert Rain]

Ayton is performing as expected imo. It is not wrong though to point out flaws in his game and want him to be improving.

This. Not to mention that if the overall team wasn’t so damn awful, offered any help and the coaching wasn’t so damn bad I would be much more worried about it.

Ayton isn’t blocking as many shots and protecting the paint as much as we would like. I think most of us all agree he needs to do better.

 

[Folster]

I don't think it's too much to ask that your incredibly talented 7 footer average over a block a game. I'd be content with 1.5 considering it's his first season.

You'd think he'd be able to get a block per game without even trying.

Also when he does get a block, it's always barely a tip. He hasn't sent one away with authority.

What concerns me is that I'm getting a more of a young Greg Monroe or Al Jefferson vibe from his play than David Robinson or Hakeem Olajuwan.

 

[Covert Rain]

What concerns me is that I'm getting a more of a young Greg Monroe or Al Jefferson vibe from his play than David Robinson or Hakeem Olajuwan.

That would be massively disappointing but with the Suns luck? Nothing would shock me.

 

[Suns_fan69]

Also when he does get a block, it's always barely a tip. He hasn't sent one away with authority.

Eh, I'd rather have him find a way to retain possession than just give the opposing team the ball back. This was one of the encouraging things from Ayton's play in the pre-season; he was very good at keeping the ball in play when he did block shots.

 

[AzStevenCal]

Also when he does get a block, it's always barely a tip. He hasn't sent one away with authority.

What concerns me is that I'm getting a more of a young Greg Monroe or Al Jefferson vibe from his play than David Robinson or Hakeem Olajuwan.

Those guys lacked one crucial thing that Ayton has in his favor, he isn't selfish (probably needs to get a little more selfish even). When the double or triple team comes, those guys still try to score and they end up hurting their team because of it. Ayton is excellent at recognizing the extra attention and finding the open guy before it's too late. Also, Deandre can score from more spots on the court than either Monroe or Jefferson.

I've never bought into the David Robinson comparison. To me, his ceiling is a poor man's Patrick Ewing (not that they are alike in style). I don't think he'll ever become a generational player but I do expect him to have the kind of career that will put him in our ROH.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Those guys lacked one crucial thing that Ayton has in his favor, he isn't selfish (probably needs to get a little more selfish even). When the double or triple team comes, those guys still try to score and they end up hurting their team because of it. Ayton is excellent at recognizing the extra attention and finding the open guy before it's too late. Also, Deandre can score from more spots on the court than either Monroe or Jefferson.

I've never bought into the David Robinson comparison. To me, his ceiling is a poor man's Patrick Ewing (not that they are alike in style). I don't think he'll ever become a generational player but I do expect him to have the kind of career that will put him in our ROH.

Hmm, Monroe was actually a very good passer coming out of Georgetown. He wasn’t as versatile as Ayton offensively, but I don’t think I’d peg him as “selfish.”

And even Ewing is a tough comparison because Ewing was a great paint defender. In fact prior to developing his excellent jump shot that’s what he hung his hat on, defense. His rookie year he averaged 2.1 blocks/game and averaged 2.4 for his entire career with 4 or 5 seasons of 3 blocks/game or more (one season averaged 4 blocks/game!).

 

[1Sun]

Remember my statement that the lack of a point guard could be the difference here between DeMarcus Cousins and Robinson/Olajuwon...

 

[Cheesebeef]

I don't think it's too much to ask that your incredibly talented 7 footer average over a block a game. I'd be content with 1.5 considering it's his first season.

You'd think he'd be able to get a block per game without even trying.

Also when he does get a block, it's always barely a tip. He hasn't sent one away with authority.

What concerns me is that I'm getting a more of a young Greg Monroe or Al Jefferson vibe from his play than David Robinson or Hakeem Olajuwan.

agreed.

I think we need a real HC to kick this guy's ass. To be honest, I'd throw the bank at JVG. At least that guy brings some credibility and would instill some toughness into this downey-soft team.

 

[elindholm]

I think we need a real HC to kick this guy's ass. To be honest, I'd throw the bank at JVG. At least that guy brings some credibility and would instill some toughness into this downey-soft team.

I still love Van Gundy, but that ship has sailed.

Cue the calls for Majerle or Eddie Johnson to be brought in.

 

[95pro]

I think JVG wants no part of being a coach again at this point in his life.

 

[Hoop Head]

Cue the calls for Majerle or Eddie Johnson to be brought in.

I'd actually like Eddie to get a look as the GM. I'm not sure if he could be a good coach or not but he seems to have a good eye for talent. I don't know if he could be a good GM or not but I think he could be better used than color commentator. Even if he was placed in charge of player development would be a good move, I think. I don't know if he could teach players what is needed to succeed but he seems able to spot what players need to do to get better. I wouldn't be against him being brought in as a coach but head coach would probably be too high too fast, and GM would likely be the same, honestly. Maybe he could join the front office like James Jones did last year.

With all of the instability this team has had with coaches and front office personnel though I'm not sure I've seen Eddie suggested for any role more than just an initial call for him to get a look, never as a serious candidate. I'm not sure if that's because he's happy where he is and has said as much or what but he knows basketball better than a lot of analysts who work in TV front what I've heard over the years. Stories that tells about our young players are often quite insightful.

 

[JCSunsfan]

Sigh. Replace one GM whose problem is inexperience with another. If we cannot come up with an idea better than EJ, just stand pat.

 

[devilalum]

The Suns are going to have trouble finding a competent GM because no competent person wants to work for Sarver.

 

[AzStevenCal]

The Suns are going to have trouble finding a competent GM because no competent person wants to work for Sarver.

This would be the case if there were several thousand NBA GM positions but since there's only 30, even Sarver should be able to find a competent GM. Identifying a competent GM and keeping him might be more of a challenge especially if Robert is still interfering.

 

[1Sun]

Sigh. Replace one GM whose problem is inexperience with another. If we cannot come up with an idea better than EJ, just stand pat.

Stand pat with no GM at all?

 

[JCSunsfan]

This would be the case if there were several thousand NBA GM positions but since there's only 30, even Sarver should be able to find a competent GM. Identifying a competent GM and keeping him might be more of a challenge especially if Robert is still interfering.

Agreed. Even Robert Sarver will have a good pool of options to pick from.

 

[Superbone]

Agreed. Even Robert Sarver will have a good pool of options to pick from.

Like we thought Ryan McDonough was at the time?

 

[JCSunsfan]

Like we thought Ryan McDonough was at the time?

I still kinda like McD, but I think I am nearly alone in that.

 

[1Sun]

I still kinda like McD, but I think I am nearly alone in that.

How in the world do you feel this way? How can you not see how horrible he ended up being, particularly with respect to coaching hires, the 2016 draft, his history of trades after the first year, his player relations and his lack of a single decent free agent signing, all culminating with him leaving this team without a single NBA-level point guard or power forward?

 

[JCSunsfan]

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