Barbosa

[Wally]

http://sports.espn.go.com/extra/olyq/boxscore?date=20030823&key=OLYQBRAZILVENEZUELA0

Hi All….
I’m up in the cool mountains of Colorado running on solar power and satellite Internet. I miss the NBA discussions but don’t miss the heat. Found this link on the Nuggets site on yesterday’s game and thought I’d pass it on. If I were the coach of Brazil, I would give Barbosa more time than 11 minutes a game based on the box scores. Looks like he’s going to be a great pick for the Suns.

Brazil 96, Venezuela 89

PRELIMINARY ROUND

VENEZUELA (89)

fg ft rb
min m-a m-a o-t a pf tp
V Diaz 35 10-12 3-4 1-6 2 2 24
L Julio 34 3-7 6-9 1-7 4 2 12
E Mijares 9 0-0 0-0 0-2 1 2 0
R Guevara 6 0-0 0-0 0-2 1 1 0
T Aguilera 27 6-10 1-3 2-7 0 4 15
O Torres 32 8-11 1-2 6-9 2 5 19
D Guevara 32 6-9 0-0 1-2 2 2 17
M Marriaga 2 0-1 0-0 0-0 0 2 0
H Bayona 3 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 0 0
R Blanco 14 1-2 0-0 0-1 1 2 2
C Morris 6 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 1 0

_____________________________________________________
TOTALS 200 34-52 11-18 11-36 13 23 89
_____________________________________________________

Percentages: FG-.654, FT-.611. 3-Point Goals:
10-21, .476 (V Diaz 1-4, R Guevara 0-1, T
Aguilera 2-2, O Torres 2-6, D Guevara 5-8).
Team Rebounds: 0. Blocked Shots:3 (V Diaz, R
Blanco, L Julio). Turnovers:17 (O Torres 4, T
Aguilera 3, V Diaz 3, L Julio 3, D Guevara 2,
E Mijares, H Bayona). Steals: 5 (T Aguilera,
V Diaz, E Mijares, L Julio, O Torres).


BRAZIL (96)

fg ft rb
min m-a m-a o-t a pf tp
M Marcelo 33 6-11 5-5 0-3 5 3 20
R Lamas 8 1-2 0-0 0-1 0 2 3
V Da Silva 27 3-4 2-3 2-4 10 1 9
L Barbosa 11 3-4 2-2 1-2 0 1 10
D Conrado 6 0-0 0-0 0-0 0 0 0
A Ribeiro 12 2-3 0-0 0-0 2 3 4
A Varejao 30 8-11 2-2 1-7 5 2 19
G Giovannoni 23 3-11 2-2 0-4 2 2 8
N Hilario 20 4-7 0-0 1-2 1 4 8
L De Souza 6 0-1 0-0 2-2 0 1 0
T Splitter 24 4-6 7-10 3-8 1 3 15

_____________________________________________________
TOTALS 200 34-60 20-24 10-33 26 22 96
_____________________________________________________

Percentages: FG-.567, FT-.833. 3-Point Goals:
8-20, .400 (M Marcelo 3-7, R Lamas 1-1, V Da
Silva 1-2, L Barbosa 2-2, A Ribeiro 0-2, A
Varejao 1-4, G Giovannoni 0-1, L De Souza
0-1). Team Rebounds: 0. Blocked Shots:4 (A
Varejao 3, N Hilario). Turnovers:9 (N Hilario
2, L De Souza 2, L Barbosa, G Giovannoni, M
Marcelo, T Splitter, A Varejao). Steals: 10
(A Varejao 4, V Da Silva 2, M Marcelo 2, L
Barbosa, R Lamas).

-------------------------------------------
VENEZUELA 23 17 32 17 - 89
BRAZIL 31 21 13 31 - 96
-------------------------------------------

Technical fouls: None.
Flagrant fouls: None. A: N/A. T: N/A.

 

[Wally]

NBAdraft.net has the Suns picking another Brazil player in 2004...

He looks pretty good in the box score

A Varejao 30 8-11 2-2 1-7 5 2 19

 

[se7en]

The scoring is great and everything. But I thought we picked up Barbosa to back Marbury up at the point. Maybe I'm not reading the box scores correctly but it doesn't look like Barbosa is distributing the ball. I'm seeing ZERO assists. I think I only recall ONE assist in the USA game. This is not a positive thing in my book. Either the coach is playing him at SG or Barbosa just isn't a very good ball distributor. Either way this isn't helping his development at the position we drafted him for. Maybe I'm being overly concerned by a few games including summer league. But I just haven't seen anything yet that's making me say WOOHOO, what a steal this guy was for a future first round draft pick.

 

[elindholm]

But I thought we picked up Barbosa to back Marbury up at the point.... This is not a positive thing in my book.

So far, I have to agree. In the RMR game I saw part of on television, it was also true that Barbosa was ineffective at running the offense or setting up teammates. He may develop, but so far he sounds (and looks) like a Brazilian Tony Delk.

Of course, given how cheaply the Suns got him, it would still be hard to complain.

 

[Errntknght]

In the game following his 11 minute outing he got 21 minutes, scoring 22pts on 8/13 fgs & 2/5 on 3pt fgs, 4/5 FTs. 1 assist, 4 TOs, 0 Stls.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by elindholm
But I thought we picked up Barbosa to back Marbury up at the point.... This is not a positive thing in my book.

So far, I have to agree. In the RMR game I saw part of on television, it was also true that Barbosa was ineffective at running the offense or setting up teammates. He may develop, but so far he sounds (and looks) like a Brazilian Tony Delk.

Of course, given how cheaply the Suns got him, it would still be hard to complain.

You've GOT to be kidding me. Barbosa was on a plane the day before he played for us in the RMR, just how much time would you say he had to prep for the RMR? I have a sneaky feeling that in the RMR, he was told not to worry about distributing the ball, but to just see how he performs offensively (and probably more so defensively) against NBA talent.

True, it is odd that he's not passing the ball on the Brazilian team, but he's also only playing 11 minutes a game, and it isn't 11 whole minutes at one time, that breaks down to only 5 1/2 minutes a HALF, and not all at the same time. That's simply not enough time to run an offense. He needs more minutes to accurately gauge that part of his game.

 

[slinslin]

He isn't playing PG on the brazilian team.

 

[Chaplin]

Originally posted by slinslin
He isn't playing PG on the brazilian team.

1) How do you know?

2) What is he playing then?

 

[slinslin]

He is playing SG and I know that from reports of many brazilian fans who were watching all those games but are wondering why he doesn't start and doesn't play PG.

He seems to be their best scorer by far maybe that's why he has to play SG for them.

 

[fordronken]

It seems to me like Barbosa is an extremely raw talent. Everything else, such as the ability to run a team, will come with time(I hope).

 

[elindholm]

I have a sneaky feeling that in the RMR, he was told not to worry about distributing the ball, but to just see how he performs offensively (and probably more so defensively) against NBA talent.

I suppose we each have our own sneaky feelings. Mine is that if he were trained and experienced as a point guard, that would be the most natural thing for him to demonstrate.

Heck, if he's such a big scorer, you'd think he'd get double-teamed or have a big man come over on him once in a while. You're telling me that, under those circumstances, he has found an open teammate once in two games?

Even Antoine Walker passes more than that.

 

[elindholm]

I don't mean to be negative; I'm just expressing my opinion. So far, Cabarkapa has surpassed my expectations, and Barbosa has fallen short. That's all there is to this point.

 

[PhxGametime]

Barbosa joined team late and well I watched USA/Brazil game: Brazil team played 3 PG's that could handle most of time Barbosa was in game (he didn't play much) and he had some nice passes that didn't turn into assist (missed shots). For a back-up he can handle the ball, drive pretty well, and has ability to pass - but most likely will be defender/scorer early on. I didn't see explosion read about yet (jumping ability) but he explodes to basket on penetration with 2 gears. He might have a problem midrange early on (unless develops tear-drop) when driving but his shot doesn't look all that bad.. it could've been just a few bad shots but Marion has awkard shot and is at best midrange.

 

[SirStefan32]

Why is everybody down on Barbosa? The guy didn't have an assist in 11 minutes. Big freakin' deal. Even if he couldn't pass the ball and generate offense(which he can do), he could play 2 while Penny plays 1.

 

[slinslin]

In international competition the assist totals are lower anyway, especially for PGs.

 

[SirStefan32]

That is an excellent point Slin.

 

[elindholm]

In international competition the assist totals are lower anyway, especially for PGs.

In the box score posted at the beginning of this thread, the Brazilian team had 26 assists. This does not seem to be a particularly low number.

 

[elindholm]

Even if he couldn't pass the ball and generate offense(which he can do), he could play 2 while Penny plays 1.

Yes, this is true, and it is probably what will have to happen. Joe Johnson could also run the offense along Barbosa, I suppose. And, if the other team has small guards, Marbury and Barbosa could play together.

 

[SirStefan32]

Originally posted by elindholm
In international competition the assist totals are lower anyway, especially for PGs.

In the box score posted at the beginning of this thread, the Brazilian team had 26 assists. This does not seem to be a particularly low number.

Slin was talking about a general rule, and you are talking about one specific case.

Guy didn't have an assist in 11 minutes, that's all there is to it. I am sure Jason Kidd and John Stockton went without assists for 11 minutes a few times.

I also think that we will see a lot of Marbury/ Barbosa backcourt. Barbosa is supposed to be able to guard shooting guards, and he is very very quick, which would make it very difficult for them to guard him. (something like Bobby Jackson I guess.)

 

[PhxGametime]

I'm not down on Barbosa - I had him early on as 4-5 rated prospect wanted on team and still high on Barbosa.

But most PG's struggle early on running Point. Barbosa IMO is a scorer that can pass ala Stephon Marbury/Jason Terry - nothing wrong with that in my book. He can defend, has athleticism, penetrating skills, and has shot well thus far. He scored very easily on Team USA defenders= Iverson/Kidd etc and it's just IMO scoring will be strength. I personally liked Tony Delk's game - being able to guard PG-SG's, shoot, create offense etc. Barbosa has better Point skills than Delk (dribbling, passing) but with scoring being strength right now and Marbury, Johnson, and Hardaway great ballhandlers - I'd let him be instant offense off bench.

 

[SweetD]

Barbosa will only need to play 7-11 min. a game anyway. I am sure they will try to give Casey some more min this year to see if he is worth keeping around. IMO Barbosa will be a great player to come off the bench or if Marbury goes down be able to play 15-17 min. with JJ or Penney taking the Starting PG spot.

 

[slinslin]

Him scoring a lot is also a need that the suns had last season.

Naturally when our bench came in last season we had a lot trouble scoring any baskets and there was generally very little movement on offense.

With Barbosa I think we got a very active, very athletic player who can really provide scoring and will fit very well with Joe Johnson and Penny Hardaway.

We can afford to let him devellop his playmaking since he isn't starting anyway.

 

[Joe Mama]

Originally posted by slinslin
Him scoring a lot is also a need that the suns had last season.

Naturally when our bench came in last season we had a lot trouble scoring any baskets and there was generally very little movement on offense.

With Barbosa I think we got a very active, very athletic player who can really provide scoring and will fit very well with Joe Johnson and Penny Hardaway.

We can afford to let him devellop his playmaking since he isn't starting anyway.

Exactly! I also wouldn't be surprised if he is racking up assists at a decent pace as soon as he actually plays in the NBA.

Having said that I really don't think Barbosa is going to get significant minutes unless he is just too good to sit or there are many injuries.

Joe Mama

 

[sly fly]

The comparison of Barbosa to Tony Delk has no validation. At least, until you see him play more than 4 quarters.

One thing that has been noticeable is that Delk is no point guard. Never was. And, never could be.

He simply is a hired gun to score points without regard to players beside him.

 

[slinslin]

Barbosa had 15 points 3 rebounds 2 assists 1 steal in 25 minutes today.

The brazilian team COMBINED for 12 assists.

http://196.28.49.167/torneos/pogamestatwide2.asp?r=PO23022&GRUPO=PO99&SERIE=4