Bask Force 1

BullheadCardFan

Go for it
Supporting Member
Joined
Sep 5, 2005
Posts
63,122
Reaction score
28,338
Location
Bullhead City, AZ
I didn't like the Michael Floyd pick last year. I LOVE the Jonathan Cooper pick this year.

We have the right team in place to start getting serious about competing in the NFC West IMO. Let the pundits keep singing the praises of St. Louis, San Francisco and Seattle. It may take a couple of years, but I really believe Steve Keim, Bruce Arians and Michael Bidwill have the Cardinals headed in the right direction.

I wasn't high on the Floyd pick last year either. Cooper I really like and the more I read about him the better I feel about it.

It sure does look like the FO has a plan and is sticking to it and it appears to be working so far. I have to hold back my expectations until we start playing. But so far so good.
 

red desert

ASFN Addict
Joined
Mar 4, 2003
Posts
6,221
Reaction score
0
Location
A.B.Q. in da house
Haven't seen Sam Montgomery discussed. Wasn't he predicted to be the better pro (between he and Mingo) by some? Thought I read somewhere that he admitted to taking plays off, but dude still got good size and can rush the passer. I prefer Tank myself.
 
OP
OP
Mitch

Mitch

Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Posts
13,405
Reaction score
2,982
Location
Wrentham, MA
I think 49ers may take Carradine. They can afford to let him totally heal before sticking him in the mix. Harbaugh kinda player.

I agree, very good assessment---but I have a hunch think he will go WR at #34---Keenan Allen, California (local star ), Robert Woods, USC or Justin Hunter, Tennessee. More of a need there, that or the TE Zach Ertz (another local star).
 

Catfish

Registered
Joined
Aug 14, 2006
Posts
4,551
Reaction score
64
Thanks Mitch, ----- great stuff. I am stoked as well, watching what BASK has brought to the table. First, all the goodness that is Johnathon Cooper, and what he brings to our OL. If we can eliminate Snyder, we may have enough to sign Rhodes to a 1 year deal if he has no takers, or maybe Freeney, after all he played for BA.

Now selecting Kevin Minter, (voted by his team-mates as captain at LSU). I can see him becoming the leader of our defense and calling defensive sets and plays during pre-snap. Smart, instinctive, athletic, and a real 'thumper' in the middle. I like this pick, and to have us get another pick in the 4th at #110, because we dropped from 38-45 to take him is unbelievable.

Now we can possibly take that pick and turn it into a possible QBOF in Tyler Wilson, and still retain our 4th rounder at #103 I believe. There are some really good play makers left like Kenjon Barner, RB, Oregon in the 5th; Eric Martin, OLB, Nebraska in the 6th, and Ace Sanders in the 7th. This could really be fun.
 
Last edited:

Sunburn

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Oct 8, 2008
Posts
4,408
Reaction score
1,637
Location
Scottsdale
I like Carradine more, because he is more of an edge rush threat. Margus Hunt is very athletic, but also very raw. Similar to Ansah in that regard. Carradine is coming off an ACL, but has worked out for teams in the past two weeks and the reports are that he was very impressive.

If our draft ends up being
1-Jonathan Cooper - OG
2-Cornellius Carradine - OLB/DE
3-Tyrann Mathieu - CB

Three productive college players, two of which were top playmakers when they were in the game.

You gotta be happy with 2 out of 3. And Minter's a nice conciliation prize for our sorely lacking run defense, imho.
 
OP
OP
Mitch

Mitch

Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Posts
13,405
Reaction score
2,982
Location
Wrentham, MA
Day 2 was riveting, to say the least.

Adding two LSU M&M brothers---from a program that plays the highest level of defense in the best conference in all of college football.

Amazing how accurate MJ has been---how he had Minter and Mathieu pegged several hours before the draft.

What I like about the Minter pick is that he is one of the best, toughest and surest tacklers in the draft. As we know, tackling has been an issue with our defense for as long as we can remember. Plus, Honey Cardinal is a dang good tackler for a player his size. He's quick to the ball and he is very good at getting underneath the ball carrier---a classic ankle biter, in other words.

One could argue that the Cardinals have been able to draft three first rounders. So many of the mock drafts I saw over the past couple months had the Ravens taking Minter (as Ray Lewis' successor) at #32---it was about half and half between Minter and SS Matt Elam (whom the Ravens picked at #32).

Honey Cardinal is a first round talent---possibly at top ten talent, had he stayed clean at LSU and had another big year. His versatility and ability to make plays wherever you line him up is a huge plus. And---this just in---our STs just got more dynamic.

The Cardinals say they are starting Honey Cardinal out at FS---a position they were targeting in this draft. While he lacks the proto-typical NFL FS size, the way the game has changed, to the point where teams are passing so often over the middle, you need instinctive playmakers in the back of your defense.

Cynics say, yeah, how's he going to tackle the likes of Vernon Davis---the answer to that is, he is going to take him out by the ankles, which is the best way to take Davis down.

I think he can run and tackle in the alley because he tracks the ball well and he tackles at the shins.

But what he is going to do is track balls so quickly that he is going to get to a lot of passes earlier that what we have been used to seeing.

On passing situations, Todd Bowles will be able to move Honey Cardinal up to nickel CB to hound slot WRs---and on other occasions Bowles is going to keep HC at nickel FS in tandem with Rashad Johnson.

Then Bowles can play up HC up versus the read option---which is a huge asset.

Last but not least, Honey Cardinal is a terrific blitzer off the edge when you can outnumber the blockers to one side.

Following the Minter & Mathieu picks, the question marks that remain are:

(1) Who plays the nickel LB position for the first 4 games? That's not a role that a classic thumper like Minter seems ideally suited for and it may be too much to ask from a rookie on top of being the starter in the base defense. None of the Cardinals inside LBers (Brinkley, Walker, Minter) are legitimate nickel LBs, other than Washington---but, what about Colin Parker?

(2) What happens to Brinkley and Walker if after 4 games Bowles wants to start Minter and Washington? I think it's quite possible that Brinkley and Walker will be used on the edge from time to time. I always thought when I watched Brinkley's college tapes that he had edge rushing potential at his size and strength. I remember seeing hik rush the edge occasionally at South Carolina and I liked what I saw. Walker played some at SOLB last year in certain situations and when he rushed the edge, again, I liked what I saw---he showed good strength and a nice burst.

(3) How is it that the Cardinals are now 6 years into playing a 34 and still has not acquired a legitimate edge rushing threat? yesterday I made the analogy that it is kind of like buying a car in Alaska and declining a 4 wheel drive option. The Steelers lose James Harrison this year---so they draft Jarvis Jones. 34 teams typically understand how critical edge pressure is to the 34. It's kind of the whole point. Why don't the Cardinals understand this?

The 49ers already have Aldon Smith, Ahmad Brooks, Parys Harralson and Darius Fleming at OLB---but yesterday they drafted Tank Carradine and Corey Lemonier.

The Seahawks added Cliff Avril and Michael Bennett after drafting Bruce Irvin to go with Chris Clemons.

The Rams have Chris Long and Robert Quinn---

The 49ers' and Seahawks' 2nd team edge rushers are better than the Cardinals' first team edge rushers---by far.

Something needs to be done---it should be interesting to see what the BASK Force does on this one---a trade perhaps---a big free agent signing?

With all the CB options the team has---and lack of safety depth, I hope the coaches move Justin Bethel to safety. I think he could develop into one heckuva safety once he gets accustomed to it.

Summary:

What this looks like to me is the Cardinals had the blueprint for this draft all along.

I think even if Lane Johnson was available at #7, they would have drafted Cooper. Cooper was their guy. We know now why he was their guy.

They wanted Minter in round 2---what they didn't figure was that Manti T'eo would be available---but, because he wasn't allowed them to trade down and still take Minter.

I think that because they wanted Mathieu in the 3rd round all along (it must have made them nervous when Jon Gruden did a five minute promo, saying that he would take Honey Badger in the 1st round, where he felt he belonged)---however, the prospect of drafting T'eo and Honey Badger would have created a frenetic media circus that what they did not want to bargain for---they had Minter rated as the ILB they wanted, so they stuck to it, and props to Steve Keim for adding a 4th rounder in the process. I heard one pundit call SK "savvy"---pretty cool for a rookie GM to be called that already.

This draft has been scripted in the first three rounds. MJ knew the script hours ahead of each pick---there was a reason for that.

It will be very interesting to see what the script looks like today.

But what I am loving most of all---is that in an incredibly short time, it appears very clear that the BASK Force has already created a family, starting with Michael Bidwill and trickling through all the players. Look at the tweets Mathieu received last night from teammates. Patrick Peterson was so happy he felt like he was getting drafted all over again. Even the free agents who were gathered and brought in at the beginning of free agency formed an instant bond. The atmosphere that is being created very swiftly and genuinely by the BASK Force is unlike we have ever seen---which is why it seems inevitable that despite playing in the best division in football, the Cardinals are going to be a force---a united force that intends to accomplish amazing feats.
 
Last edited:

Garthshort

ASFN Addict
Joined
Aug 11, 2002
Posts
9,494
Reaction score
5,740
Location
Scarsdale, NY
Mitch, couldn't the Cards save money by getting rid of all their scouts, EXCEPT those who cover the SEC? Amazing how many guys come out of that conference.
 
OP
OP
Mitch

Mitch

Crawled Through 5 FB Fields
Joined
Aug 10, 2005
Posts
13,405
Reaction score
2,982
Location
Wrentham, MA
Mitch, couldn't the Cards save money by getting rid of all their scouts, EXCEPT those who cover the SEC? Amazing how many guys come out of that conference.

It just shows how smart the Cardinals are under SK.

Think of it, Garth...if you want to draft for defense, where's the first college you would look?

LSU or Alabama, right?

I think the third place you want to look is Georgia.

And you always want to look at Florida and Florida State.

In a way you are right about the scouts, because if you drafted players just from those 5 teams each year, you'd be AOK, wouldn't you?
 

BW52

Registered
Joined
May 14, 2002
Posts
5,043
Reaction score
1,904
Location
crestwood,Ky
Day 2 was riveting, to say the least.

Adding two LSU M&M brothers---from a program that plays the highest level of defense in the best conference in all of college football.

Amazing how accurate MJ has been---how he had Minter and Mathieu pegged several hours before the draft.

What I like about the Minter pick is that he is one of the best, toughest and surest tacklers in the draft. As we know, tackling has been an issue with our defense for as long as we can remember. Plus, Honey Cardinal is a dang good tackler for a player his size. He's quick to the ball and he is very good at getting underneath the ball carrier---a classic ankle biter, in other words.

One could argue that the Cardinals have been able to draft three first rounders. So many of the mock drafts I saw over the past couple months had the Ravens taking Minter (as Ray Lewis' successor) at #32---it was about half and half between Minter and SS Matt Elam (whom the Ravens picked at #32).

Honey Cardinal is a first round talent---possibly at top ten talent, had he stayed clean at LSU and had another big year. His versatility and ability to make plays wherever you line him up is a huge plus. And---this just in---our STs just got more dynamic.

The Cardinals say they are starting Honey Cardinal out at FS---a position they were targeting in this draft. While he lacks the proto-typical NFL FS size, the way the game has changed, to the point where teams are passing so often over the middle, you need instinctive playmakers in the back of your defense.

Cynics say, yeah, how's he going to tackle the likes of Vernon Davis---the answer to that is, he is going to take him out by the ankles, which is the best way to take Davis down.

I think he can run and tackle in the alley because he tracks the ball well and he tackles at the shins.

But what he is going to do is track balls so quickly that he is going to get to a lot of passes earlier that what we have been used to seeing.

On passing situations, Todd Bowles will be able to move Honey Cardinal up to nickel CB to hound slot WRs---and on other occasions Bowles is going to keep HC at nickel FS in tandem with Rashad Johnson.

Then Bowles can play up HC up versus the read option---which is a huge asset.

Last but not least, Honey Cardinal is a terrific blitzer off the edge when you can outnumber the blockers to one side.

Following the Minter & Mathieu picks, the question marks that remain are:

(1) Who plays the nickel LB position for the first 4 games? That's not a role that a classic thumper like Minter seems ideally suited for and it may be too much to ask from a rookie on top of being the starter in the base defense. None of the Cardinals inside LBers (Brinkley, Walker, Minter) are legitimate nickel LBs, other than Washington---but, what about Colin Parker?

(2) What happens to Brinkley and Walker if after 4 games Bowles wants to start Minter and Washington? I think it's quite possible that Brinkley and Walker will be used on the edge from time to time. I always thought when I watched Brinkley's college tapes that he had edge rushing potential at his size and strength. I remember seeing hik rush the edge occasionally at South Carolina and I liked what I saw. Walker played some at SOLB last year in certain situations and when he rushed the edge, again, I liked what I saw---he showed good strength and a nice burst.

(3) How is it that the Cardinals are now 6 years into playing a 34 and still has not acquired a legitimate edge rushing threat? yesterday I made the analogy that it is kind of like buying a car in Alaska and declining a 4 wheel drive option. The Steelers lose James Harrison this year---so they draft Jarvis Jones. 34 teams typically understand how critical edge pressure is to the 34. It's kind of the whole point. Why don't the Cardinals understand this?

The 49ers already have Aldon Smith, Ahmad Brooks, Parys Harralson and Darius Fleming at OLB---but yesterday they drafted Tank Carradine and Corey Lemonier.

The Seahawks added Cliff Avril and Michael Bennett after drafting Bruce Irvin to go with Chris Clemons.

The Rams have Chris Long and Robert Quinn---

The 49ers' and Seahawks' 2nd team edge rushers are better than the Cardinals' first team edge rushers---by far.

Something needs to be done---it should be interesting to see what the BASK Force does on this one---a trade perhaps---a big free agent signing?

With all the CB options the team has---and lack of safety depth, I hope the coaches move Justin Bethel to safety. I think he could develop into one heckuva safety once he gets accustomed to it.

Summary:

What this looks like to me is the Cardinals had the blueprint for this draft all along.

I think even if Lane Johnson was available at #7, they would have drafted Cooper. Cooper was their guy. We know now why he was their guy.

They wanted Minter in round 2---what they didn't figure was that Manti T'eo would be available---but, because he wasn't allowed them to trade down and still take Minter.

I think that because they wanted Mathieu in the 3rd round all along (it must have made them nervous when Jon Gruden did a five minute promo, saying that he would take Honey Badger in the 1st round, where he felt he belonged)---however, the prospect of drafting T'eo and Honey Badger would have created a frenetic media circus that what they did not want to bargain for---they had Minter rated as the ILB they wanted, so they stuck to it, and props to Steve Keim for adding a 4th rounder in the process. I heard one pundit call SK "savvy"---pretty cool for a rookie GM to be called that already.

This draft has been scripted in the first three rounds. MJ knew the script hours ahead of each pick---there was a reason for that.

It will be very interesting to see what the script looks like today.

But what I am loving most of all---is that in an incredibly short time, it appears very clear that the BASK Force has already created a family, starting with Michael Bidwill and trickling through all the players. Look at the tweets Mathieu received last night from teammates. Patrick Peterson was so happy he felt like he was getting drafted all over again. Even the free agents who were gathered and brought in at the beginning of free agency formed an instant bond. The atmosphere that is being created very swiftly and genuinely by the BASK Force is unlike we have ever seen---which is why it seems inevitable that despite playing in the best division in football, the Cardinals are going to be a force---a united force that intends to accomplish amazing feats.

All good and fine as long as Mathieu toes the line and realizes what a chance he`s getting.Talent isn`t worth a damn if it can`t get on the field.Still dislike the pick but i hope it works out.
 

Cardiac

ASFN Icon
Joined
Jul 21, 2002
Posts
12,061
Reaction score
3,325
I agree that the OLBer position has not been properly addressed. It is the weak spot on the defense.

What is the reason that MJ knew the script hours ahead of time. Not sure I see the positive in that.

Don't like the Honey Cardinal name. Keep it at Honey Badger.

Good stuff Mitch and I agree that BASK is off to a good to great start.
 

Reddog

ASFN Lifer
Joined
Jan 8, 2003
Posts
2,807
Reaction score
323
Location
Scottsdale
" Honey Cardinal ", I like that - Mitch. Hope it sticks.

There is little Mitch comes up with that I don't like. This may infact be the first. HC (I cant even say it) makes him sound like a seven year old, over-weight, redneck, beauty pagent contestent living in a van down by the river on a steady diet of goverment issued cheese or a cross dressing, boa wearing burlesque dancer. Please lets let this kid just be Tyrann Mathieu before we anoint him with a title. Like Pacman Adam Jones, this kid needs to lose the moniker focus on keeping clean first and then football and not his brand.
 
Top