Bears release CB Kyle Fuller- Signs with Broncos

[Solar7]

Bro...they just want to doom and gloom.

What you are saying 100% makes sense.

It makes no sense. We just want to be realistic, which is what happens when you get to 5 years of a playoff drought under the same GM who has decided to go 0 CB as a strategy in a passing league.

If you can't see how dire this situation is, I really question how strongly you're all drinking.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Players get drafted where they get drafted for a reason. It's a projection based on a guy's athletic ability and ability to play in the NFL. Sure, the 4th-5th guy at a position may turn out to be better but that doesn't mean he was a better prospect going into the draft. However, I'm taking the higher rated guy every time.

That's like using the Tom Brady argument. He went in the 6th round for a reason. That he turned out the best ever doesn't make all the other teams wrong for passing on him. I think Ryan Lindley may have went in the 6th round. There's a reason for that too.

Bottom line, I'm taking the best prospect and hopefully it's a position of need, as was the case with Simmons last year.

 

[DVontel]

^ Scary thing is Keim thinks it’s that black & white, too. Doesn’t account for scheme fit & positional value. Something that he went 0/2 on with our last 1st round selection which most on this board still believes was the right pick, unfortunately.


He’ll make the same mistake drafting Micah Parsons or Zaven Collins or Travis Etienne or Najee Harris over Greg Newsome, too. Then, you’ll have the same people blabbing on about “Best Player Available” & all that mess.

 

[Stout]

It might just be Stout playing dumb. Are you? Idk. You clearly operate in a box you refuse to get out of and only think one way instead of multiple. I can't help that.

Keim, is that you? I mean, your mental gymnastics are so convoluted in defense of our criminal negligence at the CB position that you're tying yourself in logical pretzels trying to justify going into the draft with few picks and no starting CBs on the roster. Is it possible to get a great, #1 starting CB after missing out on the first 4 or 5? Possible, sure. Likely? Not even a little. Can Keim manage it? Bwahahaha!

Furthermore, is it possible to get a great, #1 starting CB after missing out on the first 4 or 5 AND ALSO draft a solid #2 starting CB AND ALSO draft a good depth guy AND fill all the other gaping roster holes we have that Keim has neglected on this roster with minimal draft picks? I'm going to go with a resounding no.

So, DVontel, just break down for us exactly why it's a good idea to go into this draft without any starting CBs. Without, you know, simply regurgitating the same thing you've been saying over and over again while avoiding the topic.

Bro...they just want to doom and gloom.

What you are saying 100% makes sense.

Bro...they just don't want 0 starting CBs on the roster entering a draft with few picks and little chance of landing 1 day 1 starter at the position, let alone 2. If that's doom and gloom, then you're Pollyanna.

Keim's treatment of the CB position could be considered malpractice at this point. What is this meathead doing? Word is he didn't like the FA's available...As opposed the crap we have? This guy needs to go.

It's criminal alright, in NFL terms.

It makes no sense. We just want to be realistic, which is what happens when you get to 5 years of a playoff drought under the same GM who has decided to go 0 CB as a strategy in a passing league.

If you can't see how dire this situation is, I really question how strongly you're all drinking.

Drinking or using something that distorts how one sees reality, alright. Unfortunately, Keim is taking it too.

Can you be arrested for GMing under the influence?

 

[DVontel]

Keim, is that you? I mean, your mental gymnastics are so convoluted in defense of our criminal negligence at the CB position that you're tying yourself in logical pretzels trying to justify going into the draft with few picks and no starting CBs on the roster. Is it possible to get a great, #1 starting CB after missing out on the first 4 or 5? Possible, sure. Likely? Not even a little. Can Keim manage it? Bwahahaha!

Furthermore, is it possible to get a great, #1 starting CB after missing out on the first 4 or 5 AND ALSO draft a solid #2 starting CB AND ALSO draft a good depth guy AND fill all the other gaping roster holes we have that Keim has neglected on this roster with minimal draft picks? I'm going to go with a resounding no.

So, DVontel, just break down for us exactly why it's a good idea to go into this draft without any starting CBs. Without, you know, simply regurgitating the same thing you've been saying over and over again while avoiding the topic.

Sigh.

Lord, please help this soul.


It’s quite clear you either can’t read or just refuse to understand my point. This seems per usual with you.

Just go ahead & continue to argue with yourself cause I can’t break it down any further for you.

 

[DVontel]

Bro...they just want to doom and gloom.

What you are saying 100% makes sense.

I’ll break it down to the lowest I can for Stout in the future cause it seems like he’s always the one that struggles & just want to argue for the sake of it.

 

[DVontel]

Why your new avatar has the Syracuse player, Melinfowu?
Is a player u like?

Yea, I like him a lot.

I like him in the 2nd, but I’m starting to doubt he’ll be there.

 

[Stout]

Sigh.

Lord, please help this soul.


It’s quite clear you either can’t read or just refuse to understand my point. This seems per usual with you.

Just go ahead & continue to argue with yourself cause I can’t break it down any further for you.

Avoided. Nothing more pathetic than message-board arrogance. "Ooh, Stout's dumb, neener neener." Oh, how cut I am by a stranger's words on the internet smh

I’ll break it down to the lowest I can for Stout in the future cause it seems like he’s always the one that struggles & just want to argue for the sake of it.

Avoided.

I understand it isn't always the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and so on drafted at a position that ends up being the better player. That's obvious, and you repeating it ad nauseum isn't enhancing your point. Can you address the issue and stop, like, avoiding it? Or, at the very least, can you give YOUR solution to the CB hole our GM has put us into? Or continue avoiding it.

 

[Solar7]

I’ll break it down to the lowest I can for Stout in the future cause it seems like he’s always the one that struggles & just want to argue for the sake of it.

You still haven't "broken anything down."

This is literally "let's hope the other teams ahead of us don't take our best scheme fit first, then we'll be fine." If they do, then we're out of luck. We don't have a say about that for 15 picks in front of us.

 

[DVontel]

You still haven't "broken anything down."

This is literally "let's hope the other teams ahead of us don't take our best scheme fit first, then we'll be fine." If they do, then we're out of luck. We don't have a say about that for 15 picks in front of us.

No, you’re just in the mindset that the 1st player taken at a position will have the best career from that position just because he was the 1st player taken, which is nonsense. What’s the point of even watching the draft if you have that mindset?

 

[Solar7]

No, you’re just in the mindset that the 1st player taken at a position will have the best career from that position just because he was the 1st player taken, which is nonsense. What’s the point of even watching the draft if you have that mindset?

No, I'm in the mindset that the team that has the most options to choose from will be able to pick their best fit, and we're highly unlikely to be in that position. Not "the leftover CB is going to be the best because sometimes the top guys aren't."

Like was already mentioned with the Tom Brady situation, sometimes the best player in the draft isn't even taken in the front half. But it's less likely.

To claim we're okay at the CB position because the 4th guy taken is sometimes better than the first is just as misguided as saying we can wait until the 5th round to take a CB because they might turn out to be the best in the class. Sure they might, but the odds decrease and so does your ability to control that the more picks are taken at the position ahead of you.

 

[slanidrac16]

First off, good teams don’t and shouldn’t count on an incoming drafted player making huge contributions to the team. If it happens , great.
Counting on a rookie cb coming in here on a season Keim is calling “ all in” is absurd. Especially cb’s. They are baptised 99% of the time.

But hey the battle cry this year seems to be maybe, if , could, there’s a chance and you never know.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

No, you’re just in the mindset that the 1st player taken at a position will have the best career from that position just because he was the 1st player taken, which is nonsense. What’s the point of even watching the draft if you have that mindset?

Lol, still not addressing the reasoning . . . sheesh.

 

[WeBlitz]

I’m confused on what the debate is even about in this topic...

I think I agree with what DVontel saying and I think I agree with what others are saying

What is this topic even about?

 

[Krangodnzr]

Keim, is that you? I mean, your mental gymnastics are so convoluted in defense of our criminal negligence at the CB position that you're tying yourself in logical pretzels trying to justify going into the draft with few picks and no starting CBs on the roster. Is it possible to get a great, #1 starting CB after missing out on the first 4 or 5? Possible, sure. Likely? Not even a little. Can Keim manage it? Bwahahaha!

Furthermore, is it possible to get a great, #1 starting CB after missing out on the first 4 or 5 AND ALSO draft a solid #2 starting CB AND ALSO draft a good depth guy AND fill all the other gaping roster holes we have that Keim has neglected on this roster with minimal draft picks? I'm going to go with a resounding no.

So, DVontel, just break down for us exactly why it's a good idea to go into this draft without any starting CBs. Without, you know, simply regurgitating the same thing you've been saying over and over again while avoiding the topic.



Bro...they just don't want 0 starting CBs on the roster entering a draft with few picks and little chance of landing 1 day 1 starter at the position, let alone 2. If that's doom and gloom, then you're Pollyanna.



It's criminal alright, in NFL terms.



Drinking or using something that distorts how one sees reality, alright. Unfortunately, Keim is taking it too.

Can you be arrested for GMing under the influence?

This is assuming that Keim doesn't sign any veteran CBs.

Freaking chicken littles!

 

[Krangodnzr]

To demonstrate what @DVontel is talking about, I will use a player that we are all familiar with: Calvin Pace.

The Cardinals drafted him and tried to make him work as a 4-3 DE for years and he sucked!! He was awful, never really amounted even a lick of pass rush at all.

Was this because Pace was a trash player? No. Pace took off once he was moved to 3-4 OLB and actually looked like a good 1st round pick.

He was never a reach and was always a good player, but he wasn't worth a high first round pick because he was a scheme dependent player. Some of the corners available after the first 3 will be like that, scheme dependent players.

Patrick Peterson is a scheme dependent player...he's always been meh in zone coverages, and excels in press man. That's why resigning him was always in question because Vance likes to run zone coverage a lot more.

There are still probably a half dozen vet corners out there that will be able to at least replicate what the Cardinals got from Peterson and Kirkpatrick last season. Maybe more than a half dozen.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I’m confused on what the debate is even about in this topic...

I think I agree with what DVontel saying and I think I agree with what others are saying

What is this topic even about?

The bottom line is how effective it is relying on the draft to fill the gaping hole at cb. We all agree that you can draft the best cornerback as the 4th (heck even the 20th) drafted cornerback. But for some reason dvontel doesn’t seem to understand the logic that the further down the position line you draft the less choice you have, and thus the less likelihood that you get what you want.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

This is assuming that Keim doesn't sign any veteran CBs.

Freaking chicken littles!

I’m sure he’l scrape the bottom of the bargain bin.

 

[WeBlitz]

To demonstrate what @DVontel is talking about, I will use a player that we are all familiar with: Calvin Pace.

The Cardinals drafted him and tried to make him work as a 4-3 DE for years and he sucked!! He was awful, never really amounted even a lick of pass rush at all.

Was this because Pace was a trash player? No. Pace took off once he was moved to 3-4 OLB and actually looked like a good 1st round pick.

He was never a reach and was always a good player, but he wasn't worth a high first round pick because he was a scheme dependent player. Some of the corners available after the first 3 will be like that, scheme dependent players.

Patrick Peterson is a scheme dependent player...he's always been meh in zone coverages, and excels in press man. That's why resigning him was always in question because Vance likes to run zone coverage a lot more.

There are still probably a half dozen vet corners out there that will be able to at least replicate what the Cardinals got from Peterson and Kirkpatrick last season. Maybe more than a half dozen.

This is one hundred percent true.


Unless you’re some athletic & technically proficient specimen, every player is scheme-specific.


A player might get drafted earlier than another because his overall ability, but what if the 1st player drafted goes to the wrong scheme while the player after goes to the right? The player after will achieve more success.

For example, I can easily see a player like Jabril Cox having more success than Parsons despite being projected a round or two later. This is common and happens every year.

I don’t think this is some highly difficult physics exam everyone is making it out to be.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

To demonstrate what @DVontel is talking about, I will use a player that we are all familiar with: Calvin Pace.

The Cardinals drafted him and tried to make him work as a 4-3 DE for years and he sucked!! He was awful, never really amounted even a lick of pass rush at all.

Was this because Pace was a trash player? No. Pace took off once he was moved to 3-4 OLB and actually looked like a good 1st round pick.

He was never a reach and was always a good player, but he wasn't worth a high first round pick because he was a scheme dependent player. Some of the corners available after the first 3 will be like that, scheme dependent players.

Patrick Peterson is a scheme dependent player...he's always been meh in zone coverages, and excels in press man. That's why resigning him was always in question because Vance likes to run zone coverage a lot more.

There are still probably a half dozen vet corners out there that will be able to at least replicate what the Cardinals got from Peterson and Kirkpatrick last season. Maybe more than a half dozen.

Except we have been talking about the draft . . .

 

[WeBlitz]

The bottom line is how effective it is relying on the draft to fill the gaping hole at cb. We all agree that you can draft the best cornerback as the 4th (heck even the 20th) drafted cornerback. But for some reason dvontel doesn’t seem to understand the logic that the further down the position line you draft the less choice you have, and thus the less likelihood that you get what you want.

Then that just comes down to how good your scouting department’s evaluation skills are.

If we’re talking about early in the 1st round compared to early in the 3rd round then I agree. If we’re talking about early in the 1st round compared to later in the 1st round, then I see his point.

Depending on how the position group is touted, there could not be a big drop off, but that could also be fools-errand.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Then that just comes down to how good your scouting department’s evaluation skills are.

If we’re talking about early in the 1st round compared to early in the 3rd round then I agree. If we’re talking about early in the 1st round compared to later in the 1st round, then I see his point.

Depending on how the position group is touted, there could not be a big drop off, but that could also be fools-errand.

The 1st round to 3rd round verses early 1st round to late 1st round is faulty reasoning because round doesn’t determine ability, talent does. If the big drop in talent occurs top 1st to late 1st and then late 1st to 3rd is negligible differences round where is selected is a terrible determinant. It’s about tiers with scheme specific.

 

[Solar7]

This is assuming that Keim doesn't sign any veteran CBs.

Freaking chicken littles!

So what deep on the wrong side of 30 or significant contributors on terrible 2021 defenses CBs are you excited for?

To demonstrate what @DVontel is talking about, I will use a player that we are all familiar with: Calvin Pace.

The Cardinals drafted him and tried to make him work as a 4-3 DE for years and he sucked!! He was awful, never really amounted even a lick of pass rush at all.

Was this because Pace was a trash player? No. Pace took off once he was moved to 3-4 OLB and actually looked like a good 1st round pick.

He was never a reach and was always a good player, but he wasn't worth a high first round pick because he was a scheme dependent player. Some of the corners available after the first 3 will be like that, scheme dependent players.

Patrick Peterson is a scheme dependent player...he's always been meh in zone coverages, and excels in press man. That's why resigning him was always in question because Vance likes to run zone coverage a lot more.

There are still probably a half dozen vet corners out there that will be able to at least replicate what the Cardinals got from Peterson and Kirkpatrick last season. Maybe more than a half dozen.

This does nothing but prove our point. We drafted Calvin Pace because we got outdrafted by other teams ahead of us and were in complete desperation for a player at the position. We actually wanted Jerome McDougle. As a result of our draft position, we picked the 4th DE/OLB off the board, and he was terrible for us... as opposed to if we had been the first off the board to take a DE/OLB and would have ended up with a Hall of Famer in Suggs.

 

[Stout]

To demonstrate what @DVontel is talking about, I will use a player that we are all familiar with: Calvin Pace.

The Cardinals drafted him and tried to make him work as a 4-3 DE for years and he sucked!! He was awful, never really amounted even a lick of pass rush at all.

Was this because Pace was a trash player? No. Pace took off once he was moved to 3-4 OLB and actually looked like a good 1st round pick.

He was never a reach and was always a good player, but he wasn't worth a high first round pick because he was a scheme dependent player. Some of the corners available after the first 3 will be like that, scheme dependent players.

Patrick Peterson is a scheme dependent player...he's always been meh in zone coverages, and excels in press man. That's why resigning him was always in question because Vance likes to run zone coverage a lot more.

There are still probably a half dozen vet corners out there that will be able to at least replicate what the Cardinals got from Peterson and Kirkpatrick last season. Maybe more than a half dozen.

Yeah, we know what he's been talking about, as he's repeated it monotonously. No one's disputed the logic there. Everybody ELSE is talking about the wisdom (or idiocy) of relying on the draft to plug in 2 starting corners, and he just keeps repeating the same off-topic stuff.

Now, your contribution here about vet corners out there actually presents an opinion on what everyone OTHER than DVontel is talking about. I don't agree that it's wise to rely on some bargain basement vets to fill a gaping need at two starting spots, especially considering CB1 and CB2 aren't the only gaping holes in our roster. I disagree, but appreciate you're debating the topic at hand.

 

[Stout]

I’m confused on what the debate is even about in this topic...

I think I agree with what DVontel saying and I think I agree with what others are saying

What is this topic even about?

Most people are debating the holes we have at CB, how we haven't addressed those needs in FA, and the wisdom (or folly) of waiting until the draft to do so. DVontel is off on a tangent about draft positioning and scheme fit. Krang just interjected about using cheap vets to fill those holes. The majority of the people are trying to not let the thread get hijacked lol