Bears release CB Kyle Fuller- Signs with Broncos

[WeBlitz]

Yeah, we know what he's been talking about, as he's repeated it monotonously. No one's disputed the logic there. Everybody ELSE is talking about the wisdom (or idiocy) of relying on the draft to plug in 2 starting corners, and he just keeps repeating the same off-topic stuff.

Now, your contribution here about vet corners out there actually presents an opinion on what everyone OTHER than DVontel is talking about. I don't agree that it's wise to rely on some bargain basement vets to fill a gaping need at two starting spots, especially considering CB1 and CB2 aren't the only gaping holes in our roster. I disagree, but appreciate you're debating the topic at hand.

So what would you do? I seen you go at him about how to fix the situation (even though that looked like that was never the intention of his point), but you never offered on what you would do.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

This does nothing but prove our point. We drafted Calvin Pace because we got outdrafted by other teams ahead of us and were in complete desperation for a player at the position. We actually wanted Jerome McDougle. As a result of our draft position, we picked the 4th DE/OLB off the board, and he was terrible for us... as opposed to if we had been the first off the board to take a DE/OLB and would have ended up with a Hall of Famer in Suggs.

Ding, ding, ding. Winna winna (or for the cards loser loser)

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

So what would you do? I seen you go at him about how to fix the situation (even though that looked like that was never the intention of his point), but you never offered on what you would do.

How far back do we get to unwind keims terrible planning? Or are we handcuffed by the idiocy of his moves to date?

 

[Stout]

So what would you do? I seen you go at him about how to fix the situation (even though that looked like that was never the intention of his point), but you never offered on what you would do.

I wouldn't have gotten to this spot in the first place. Keim stupidly ignored any and all CB signings after getting to an offseason without any starting CBs. It's all fine and dandy to say he didn't like any of the players available, but something has to give. You can't not like or sign anyone AND go into the draft empty at both CB spots. He's painted himself into a very, VERY bad corner. But he's a bad GM, so that's expected, sadly.

I WOULD HAVE identified the best scheme fit available in the pre-FA period and went heavily after that CB. Not Keim heavily--he fails more often than he succeeds--but for real pursued that CB. Then I probably would have gone for a cheap vet FA and drafted a CB early so they could compete for the other starting spot.

Now that Keim has completely hosed himself and the team, I would identify the best of the dross for scheme fit, sign two of them, then PRAY we get a good CB to fall to us. That's a TERRIBLE plan for probably the 2nd most important position on the defense, but it's the best worst plan we have left to us.

 

[Solar7]

So what would you do? I seen you go at him about how to fix the situation (even though that looked like that was never the intention of his point), but you never offered on what you would do.

Not Stout obviously, but I would have either retained Peterson or been out in front of the market to acquire at least one CB as a contingency if the draft didn't fall our way.

Now it's too late. There's really no other option besides to hope we get lucky and that the corners aren't all picked before we get to 16. So we just sit here mad about being put into this situation and wait for a month from now.

The worst part about it all is that this has painted us into a corner. Ja'Marr Chase could drop to our slot and we'd have to pass on him for Greg Newsome because we must take a CB.

 

[Stout]

Not Stout obviously, but I would have either retained Peterson or been out in front of the market to acquire at least one CB as a contingency if the draft didn't fall our way.

Now it's too late. There's really no other option besides to hope we get lucky and that the corners aren't all picked before we get to 16. So we just sit here mad about being put into this situation and wait for a month from now.

The worst part about it all is that this has painted us into a corner. Ja'Marr Chase could drop to our slot and we'd have to pass on him for Greg Newsome because we must take a CB.

Yep, this is what gets you a Calvin Pace when you don't play the system that fits Calvin Pace.

I disagree about PP, or at least us paying PP enough for him to come back here; he just isn't worth a ton of money any longer. 5 mill max, maybe.

 

[Cbus cardsfan]

Yep, this is what gets you a Calvin Pace when you don't play the system that fits Calvin Pace.

I disagree about PP, or at least us paying PP enough for him to come back here; he just isn't worth a ton of money any longer. 5 mill max, maybe.

Not you specifically but people don’t want to pay PP but are upset at not paying Dan Arnold.
That’s mind-boggling to me.

PP would have had a much bigger role than Arnold.

Like I mentioned in another thread, keep PP and draft a CB early. That position then becomes a strength.

 

[Shane]

Not you specifically but people don’t want to pay PP but are upset at not paying Dan Arnold.
That’s mind-boggling to me.

PP would have had a much bigger role than Arnold.

Like I mentioned in another thread, keep PP and draft a CB early. That position then becomes a strength.

no CB room with PP is a room of strength

 

[Stout]

Not you specifically but people don’t want to pay PP but are upset at not paying Dan Arnold.
That’s mind-boggling to me.

PP would have had a much bigger role than Arnold.

Like I mentioned in another thread, keep PP and draft a CB early. That position then becomes a strength.

It's less angst about losing Arnold than it is "gee, we have another gaping hole on the roster" thing.

 

[DVontel]

No, I'm in the mindset that the team that has the most options to choose from will be able to pick their best fit, and we're highly unlikely to be in that position. Not "the leftover CB is going to be the best because sometimes the top guys aren't."

Like was already mentioned with the Tom Brady situation, sometimes the best player in the draft isn't even taken in the front half. But it's less likely.

To claim we're okay at the CB position because the 4th guy taken is sometimes better than the first is just as misguided as saying we can wait until the 5th round to take a CB because they might turn out to be the best in the class. Sure they might, but the odds decrease and so does your ability to control that the more picks are taken at the position ahead of you.

Lol, still not addressing the reasoning . . . sheesh.

I’ll just say this.


I never “claimed” (Solar) that it was smart to go to into draft weekend without a CB1 or CB2 signed. Hell, I never even gave my input on what I would have done if I were in Keim’s shoes. Not once have you seen me say “Well, this is how I would go on about it”. That was never my intention of this topic. I thought that was fairly obvious.

Now, if you want me to give my input on what I WOULD do or would have did, I will give to you.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Yeah, we know what he's been talking about, as he's repeated it monotonously. No one's disputed the logic there. Everybody ELSE is talking about the wisdom (or idiocy) of relying on the draft to plug in 2 starting corners, and he just keeps repeating the same off-topic stuff.

Now, your contribution here about vet corners out there actually presents an opinion on what everyone OTHER than DVontel is talking about. I don't agree that it's wise to rely on some bargain basement vets to fill a gaping need at two starting spots, especially considering CB1 and CB2 aren't the only gaping holes in our roster. I disagree, but appreciate you're debating the topic at hand.

The bargain basement vets pretty much all played as well or better than Patrick Peterson or Kirkpatrick did.

We don't have the benefit of hindsight right now, but it seems that the Cardinals are going to wait out the shock overpays (Shaq Griffin?) and find a similar level of production for much cheaper.

I know the wait sucks, but the sky is not falling. This happens every year on this board.

 

[Stout]

The bargain basement vets pretty much all played as well or better than Patrick Peterson or Kirkpatrick did.

We don't have the benefit of hindsight right now, but it seems that the Cardinals are going to wait out the shock overpays (Shaq Griffin?) and find a similar level of production for much cheaper.

I know the wait sucks, but the sky is not falling. This happens every year on this board.

I understand what you're saying. I think the difference in thinking is that PP/Kirkpatrick level of production is far, FAR under a standard that will get us to the playoffs. We can't have garbage CB play, which is what we had. We need average at least. You feel we can get better enough than PP/DK from the bargain basement vets; I don't think they can improve us enough. Thus, to me, with no good options right now, we're not in a good place roster wise.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Not you specifically but people don’t want to pay PP but are upset at not paying Dan Arnold.
That’s mind-boggling to me.

PP would have had a much bigger role than Arnold.

Like I mentioned in another thread, keep PP and draft a CB early. That position then becomes a strength.

Uh $3 < $10

 

[Solar7]

I’ll just say this.


I never “claimed” (Solar) that it was smart to go to into draft weekend without a CB1 or CB2 signed. Hell, I never even gave my input on what I would have done if I were in Keim’s shoes. Not once have you seen me say “Well, this is how I would go on about it”. That was never my intention of this topic. I thought that was fairly obvious.

Now, if you want me to give my input on what I WOULD do or would have did, I will give to you.

Alright, fine, implied, but you've said for plenty of this offseason that a rookie would be just fine with you in earlier discussions. It's been "trash Peterson as one of the worst CBs in the league," and tons of saying we can go with a rookie, long before this thread. If you care to say what you'd like to have done or do next, go for it.

The bargain basement vets pretty much all played as well or better than Patrick Peterson or Kirkpatrick did.

We don't have the benefit of hindsight right now, but it seems that the Cardinals are going to wait out the shock overpays (Shaq Griffin?) and find a similar level of production for much cheaper.

I know the wait sucks, but the sky is not falling. This happens every year on this board.

I don't want to turn this into another Peterson vs. the field argument, because it's over and he's gone, but for every single CB I look at that's available, they had equal or worse production than PP either in stats or PFF grade. I understood the concern about what he was going to make and losing a step, but the hate has gone too far when compared to the remaining guys. They're all really bad, and to @Stout's point, we need average at least.

 

[juza76]

no CB room with PP is a room of strength

I remember one of your photo some years a go with Fitzgerald peterson and another guy I forgot
How he was in person? Nice ?

 

[Shane]

I remember one of your photo some years a go with Fitzgerald peterson and another guy I forgot
How he was in person? Nice ?

It was Calais Campbell... Yes they all were all very receptive and very nice. Was the 2nd time meeting and getting a pic with Fitz and he remembered me.

 

[DVontel]

Alright, fine, implied, but you've said for plenty of this offseason that a rookie would be just fine with you in earlier discussions. It's been "trash Peterson as one of the worst CBs in the league," and tons of saying we can go with a rookie, long before this thread. If you care to say what you'd like to have done or do next, go for it.

Yea, I did say I would be okay with a rookie.


But, the thing is Solar.....

When the hell I initiate that topic in this thread? When? Where?


You & others took this discussion into a whole different lane despite that never being my intention.

This somehow went from how small or far the gap of the 1st CB taken to the 4th CB taken to somehow veering about how the whole CB group should be addressed.




Anyways, I said it in previous threads, but I would have gone hard after William Jackson III. Even overpay if I had to because everyone knows or should know the value of a CB. Now, I would go after Adoree since there’s still upside there & he has had some good seasons. Then, address CB in the the 1st round unless by some miracle Alijah Vera-Tucker fell to us. If I had my choice for which CB I would want, it would be Greg Newsome. He is scheme versatile, has the fluidity & twitch to hang with shifty WRs that are taking over, & has the mental IQ down.

 

[Solar7]

Yea, I did say I would be okay with a rookie.


But, the thing is Solar.....

When the hell I initiate that topic in this thread? When? Where?


You & others took this discussion into a whole different lane despite that never being my intention.

This somehow went from how small or far the gap of the 1st CB taken to the 4th CB taken to somehow veering about how the whole CB group should be addressed.




Anyways, I said it in previous threads, but I would have gone hard after William Jackson III. Even overpay if I had to because everyone knows or should know the value of a CB. Now, I would go after Adoree since there’s still upside there & he has had some good seasons. Then, address CB in the the 1st round unless by some miracle Alijah Vera-Tucker fell to us. If I had my choice for which CB I would want, it would be Greg Newsome. He is scheme versatile, has the fluidity & twitch to hang with shifty WRs that are taking over, & has the mental IQ down.

You were the first one to mention a Keim youth movement, and the only real youth available at the moment is the upcoming draft.

And yes, this is a thread about how we didn't get Kyle Fuller, which is about how the whole CB group should be addressed, not the draft. Fuller was essentially the last "this would be a good pickup" player to address the overall situation we're in.

This was never about the gap between the 1st CB taken to the 4th, this was about Keim's godawful preparation putting us in the terrible situation we're in, and when there was a potential fix surprisingly on the market, not being able to take advantage.

 

[Krangodnzr]

I understand what you're saying. I think the difference in thinking is that PP/Kirkpatrick level of production is far, FAR under a standard that will get us to the playoffs. We can't have garbage CB play, which is what we had. We need average at least. You feel we can get better enough than PP/DK from the bargain basement vets; I don't think they can improve us enough. Thus, to me, with no good options right now, we're not in a good place roster wise.

Except....the Cardinals were almost in the playoffs with exactly that. There are OTHER things that can improve on the defense even with replacement level corners.

 

[juza76]

I think this class is deep with at least 100 prospects
Trading down and getting someone like newsome,horn, Melinfowu,Asante Samuel is not a big drop from Surtain Fairley
We need at least 2 more picks
In round 3 and 4
To get in the order WR, OL, OLB

 

[Stout]

You were the first one to mention a Keim youth movement, and the only real youth available at the moment is the upcoming draft.

And yes, this is a thread about how we didn't get Kyle Fuller, which is about how the whole CB group should be addressed, not the draft. Fuller was essentially the last "this would be a good pickup" player to address the overall situation we're in.

This was never about the gap between the 1st CB taken to the 4th, this was about Keim's godawful preparation putting us in the terrible situation we're in, and when there was a potential fix surprisingly on the market, not being able to take advantage.

Exactly. That's why repeating this, @DVontel, felt like continuous avoidance. We all got what you were saying but the only relevance seemed to be upbraiding people for feeling painted into a corner by Keim. Everyone else was discussing filling the CB slots.

Except....the Cardinals were almost in the playoffs with exactly that. There are OTHER things that can improve on the defense even with replacement level corners.

I get what you're saying and respect your differing viewpoint. One problem is that it's going to be difficult not seeing a REDUCTION in CB productivity, since Keim's painted us into a terrible corner at the position.

 

[Krangodnzr]

Exactly. That's why repeating this, @DVontel, felt like continuous avoidance. We all got what you were saying but the only relevance seemed to be upbraiding people for feeling painted into a corner by Keim. Everyone else was discussing filling the CB slots.



I get what you're saying and respect your differing viewpoint. One problem is that it's going to be difficult not seeing a REDUCTION in CB productivity, since Keim's painted us into a terrible corner at the position.

Keim's biggest issue is that he misses on too many premium picks and then either has to use MORE premium picks or free agency dollars.

Cornerback isn't a position that he has done this with too much though...I'd argue he hasn't used ENOUGH picks on CB.

Murphy is a good young corner, but outside of him, the cupboard is pretty bare.

 

[Stout]

Keim's biggest issue is that he misses on too many premium picks and then either has to use MORE premium picks or free agency dollars.

Cornerback isn't a position that he has done this with too much though...I'd argue he hasn't used ENOUGH picks on CB.

Murphy is a good young corner, but outside of him, the cupboard is pretty bare.

Can't argue with that. I like that this draft is heavy on CBs, and think we should draft one, as long as the right one is there, in either the 1st or the 2nd. I think Murphy is a good young player, but not on the outside.

 

[ProdigalSun]

If we draft a CB will Vance even play them... I don’t know if I can take watching another talented rookie just twiddling their thumbs on the bench all season...