Been noticing something about Tyrann Mathieu

[pmacLean]

No, Bethel is worse because he's always by his man and cannot turnaround for the ball... his nickname should be "the witness" lol

Well at least Bethel is "always by his man". How that is worse than Badger trailing his man by several steps is beyond me.

 

[pmacLean]

I liked Badger, but he is now toast. All the injuries I guess.

One play against the Texans said it all.

Badger lines up on the edge and comes to blitz.
The TE or Tackle (don't remember which, but they were bigger than Badger, like pretty much everyone else in the NFL) moves in front of him.
Badger does some kind of Feeney "spin" move, except he starts a foot or 2 in front of the O-lineman, doesn't actually move left or right in the spin and doesn't finish the spin.
So he is basically, back flat against the lineman's front and half heartedly pushing back with his feet.
The lineman's body language was "WHaaat the F?", he didn't even lift his hands, he just stood right there with Badger feebly trying to push him (with his back) backwards.

IT really did look pathetic.

 

[vince56]

Right now Mathieu is playing for he possibility of being offered a pay cut to stay with the team, because if he doesn't improve, they may just cut him and not offer to bring him back at any price.

Budda Baker keeps playing the way he is, and Mathieu is out of a position.

Bingo. Which is why he took to Twitter and complained about guaranteed contracts.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Bingo. Which is why he took to Twitter and complained about guaranteed contracts.

Mathieu did this? Recently?

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

Mathieu did this? Recently?

Couple days ago in response to Kam Chancellor going down. He said players go through a lot physically and should have guaranteed contracts.

And in response to Tyrann taking a pay cut...why would he? He still has a ton of money left on his contract and he has a huge dead cap hit next year. Team realistically wouldn't be able to cut him until 2020 without significant financial implications.

 

[Cheesebeef]

Couple days ago in response to Kam Chancellor going down. He said players go through a lot physically and should have guaranteed contracts.

And in response to Tyrann taking a pay cut...why would he? He still has a ton of money left on his contract and he has a huge dead cap hit next year. Team realistically wouldn't be able to cut him until 2020 without significant financial implications.

That’s what huge signing bonuses are for HB.

 

[vince56]

Mathieu did this? Recently?

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[dreday]

I liked Badger, but he is now toast. All the injuries I guess.

One play against the Texans said it all.

Badger lines up on the edge and comes to blitz.
The TE or Tackle (don't remember which, but they were bigger than Badger, like pretty much everyone else in the NFL) moves in front of him.
Badger does some kind of Feeney "spin" move, except he starts a foot or 2 in front of the O-lineman, doesn't actually move left or right in the spin and doesn't finish the spin.
So he is basically, back flat against the lineman's front and half heartedly pushing back with his feet.
The lineman's body language was "WHaaat the F?", he didn't even lift his hands, he just stood right there with Badger feebly trying to push him (with his back) backwards.

IT really did look pathetic.

I saw that and commented on it in the Game day thread. Complete lack of effort and complacent getting paid.

 

[clif]

While I am the last person to call into question someone's weight, I think TM is too heavy.

 

[SoCal Cardfan]

Well at least Bethel is "always by his man". How that is worse than Badger trailing his man by several steps is beyond me.

"steps" is generous..... He's typically 5-7 yards away.

 

[Broseph]

So what are our options for TM moving forward? What can SK do if he continues to not produce?

 

[Veer]

Unfortunately Mathieu's agent did a great job on that deal, and Keim got fleeced. Can't get out of it next year. Another thing to consider is that - no matter how bad he plays - the vast majority of fans loves the Badger, as well as national media. Wouldn't surprise me if he is our 2nd most sold jersey after Fitz. Actually I think he is by a wide margin. He will be a Cardinal next year, like it or not.

As far as his play goes, he shouldn't cover the slot anymore. He lost the quickness you need for the slot which allows the WR too much seperation. They should move him back to centerfield full-time where his instincts can take over. Mathieu dropped a pick last game from the high safety spot, but made a great read to jump that pass.

Or another option, since we struggle at CB2 anyway, try him on the outside where you don't need to have the quickness like in the slot. It's really much tougher to play in the slot with so many different directions a WR can take from there. On the outside you can position yourself to take away half of the WR's possible release patterns, depending on what defensive scheme is called. Tramon Williams is so much older than a starting CB should be, but he is great at aligning presnap so that the WR has just one way to go. Instinct player, just like Mathieu. Maybe he can teach him a thing or two.

At least we got Baker who seems to be what Mathieu should've been for us.

 

[RugbyMuffin]

Team realistically wouldn't be able to cut him until 2020 without significant financial implications.

His contract is setup that the Cardinals can get out of it without much damage this year. 3mil dead money, 11mil cap savings.

A bad contract for sure, but not nightmarish.

 

[AsUpRoDiGy]

His contract is setup that the Cardinals can get out of it without much damage this year. 3mil dead money, 11mil cap savings.

A bad contract for sure, but not nightmarish.

Hmm...according to Spotrac...he would account for $9.9M in dead cap next year. Unless I'm reading it wrong?

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/arizona-cardinals/tyrann-mathieu-12350/

 

[oaken1]

Couple days ago in response to Kam Chancellor going down. He said players go through a lot physically and should have guaranteed contracts.

And in response to Tyrann taking a pay cut...why would he? He still has a ton of money left on his contract and he has a huge dead cap hit next year. Team realistically wouldn't be able to cut him until 2020 without significant financial implications.

he has a cut date built in this year... if we dont cut him his guaranteed money goes up something like $14mil...
if he dont rework he will be cut before free agency starts

Contract Notes:

• $21.25M initially guaranteed (signing bonus + 2016 salary + 2017 salary)
• $13.75M more guarantees on the 1st league day of 2018 (2018 salary + $8M of 2019 salary)
• $5M 2018 roster bonus fully guaranteed on the 3rd league day of 2018
• Defensive Player of the year: $250,000 (2017-21)
• 2017-21 Workout Bonus: $250,000

so yeah...$18.75mil guaranteed if he is still on the roster by the third day of FA this spring.... even if he has an $18mil dead money,...hell, its dead money anyway the way he has been producing... but at least with him cut we can use the roster spot

 

[b8rtm8nn]

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[juza76]

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Mm this guy didnt watch the game doesnt have any clue
Mathieu is still good near the line of scrimmage but is a liability in coverage, and doesnt make the plays he used to do
We didnt talk about cutting him but just stated is far from the player he was

 

[Jetstream Green]

Well at least Bethel is "always by his man". How that is worse than Badger trailing his man by several steps is beyond me.

Bethel is worse because he does not have the tools even when he is where he is suppose to be, like a WR who can get open but cannot catch... meaning Badger at least has some value when the WR has limited field to work with while Bethel does not

 

[b8rtm8nn]

Mm this guy didnt watch the game doesnt have any clue
Mathieu is still good near the line of scrimmage but is a liability in coverage, and doesnt make the plays he used to do
We didnt talk about cutting him but just stated is far from the player he was

Yeah - I'm agreeing with you - Mathieu is slower after injury, but his instincts are great and he plays very well at the line. But we don't use him to his strengths consistently, and Bettcher is sloooooowwww to figure this out, which is one of the places I always end up.

 

[JeffGollin]

The Badger appears to be coasting on his earlier rep (makes an effort if he thinks it will make the highlight reel/pulling up when he feels it's not worth the effort).

The number of plays he leaves on the field is equal to the difference between being All Pro or just mediocre.

I hope I'm wrong (It sure doesn't sound like the Badger we know) but it sure feels like that's what's happeniing. Only other reason might be he's still hiding an injury.

 

[oaken1]

The Badger appears to be coasting on his earlier rep (makes an effort if he thinks it will make the highlight reel/pulling up when he feels it's not worth the effort).

The number of plays he leaves on the field is equal to the difference between being All Pro or just mediocre.

I hope I'm wrong (It sure doesn't sound like the Badger we know) but it sure feels like that's what's happeniing. Only other reason might be he's still hiding an injury.

I noticed last season that rather than wrapping up,... he is trying to just deliver a hit... but dude aint but a buck nuthin... he needs to wrap up and stop trying to be AW... because he will fail every time... bouncing off of runners is not how you want to make sportscenter

 

[Cheesebeef]

I noticed last season that rather than wrapping up,... he is trying to just deliver a hit... but dude aint but a buck nuthin... he needs to wrap up and stop trying to be AW... because he will fail every time... bouncing off of runners is not how you want to make sportscenter

yup. I remember the first thing that ever impressed me about Badger was his tackling ability, something sorely lacking on the team at the point we drafted him. You'd think not being the player he was, he'd really focus on just that alone, but maybe he really is just gun shy with injuries and thinks his body is more well served launching, bouncing off or missing guys instead of wrapping up and getting tangled up with guys bigger than him.

it's a shame what happened to him. kid first came back from the depths in college, getting cut because of drug abuse, righted himself and dominated as a rookie, only to get dealt another blow with his first knee injury, then came back so freaking strong from that only to have another knee injury. Sucks.

 

[Jetstream Green]

Mm this guy didnt watch the game doesnt have any clue
Mathieu is still good near the line of scrimmage but is a liability in coverage, and doesnt make the plays he used to do
We didnt talk about cutting him but just stated is far from the player he was

Seeing their comments make me question their thought process. Yes, he looks fast at the line of scrimmage (and what does that make him, some odd hybrid nickel back which cannot cover but only good on runs or a blitz leaving a guy uncovered on predominantly pass plays?) but slot receivers move even faster than that and he is losing the battle with their short burst of speed in coverage whether he knows it's coming or not

 

[oaken1]

Seeing their comments make me question their thought process. Yes, he looks fast at the line of scrimmage (and what does that make him, some odd hybrid nickel back which cannot cover but only good on runs or a blitz leaving a guy uncovered on predominantly pass plays?) but slot receivers move even faster than that and he is losing the battle with their short burst of speed in coverage whether he knows it's coming or not

guess it makes him an OLB action figure

 

[Veer]

He biggest issue is defending the two way release from the slot, as well as being quick enough to take on receivers crossing his zone. Losing his shiftiness could very well be the result of two bad knee injuries. He's never been fast, but the quickest defender on our D. I'd guess mentally and reactive quickness he is still on top of the game, since he has quite a few years under his belt. But if the feet don't play along, you can't do anything about that. The only solution I see is to transition him to deep centerfield full-time, which he already does on occasion. Could make him strictly a rover for 3rd downs, who plays the QB spy and rushes around the edge, but that's not the type of player you pay significant money.