Bell and Diaw Memorial Page

[Covert Rain]

It looked to me like DA was doing a great job of adding Shaq to the system at the end of last season. The Spurs killed us in the playoffs because we didn't have Marion to defend Parker anymore, not because Shaq didn't work in the trackmeet.

We still didn't play defense well enough to win...Marion or no Marion. Plus if we still had Marion Shaq wouldn't be here anyway. Then we would have been eaten alive even worse playing small ball. D'Antoni's system was using a PF at Center and playing small ball.

D'Antoni did a pretty good job incorporating Shaq but it was still different then the original system. We could never go back to the old system nor shoud we. We have seen examples where a hybrid of old and new can be very effective. It's no surprise we have looked best when finding a balance between Shaq and Amare.

 

[cly2tw]

It looked to me like DA was doing a great job of adding Shaq to the system at the end of last season. The Spurs killed us in the playoffs because we didn't have Marion to defend Parker anymore, not because Shaq didn't work in the trackmeet.

It didn't work when it counted most last playoffs, did it? How could DA with Shaq on this team ever overcome the likes of the Spurs, or even Hornets and now Lakers?

Porter worked on other teams who understood that controlling DA's Nash would always do the wonder to beat us, which good teams always are capable of. That's the reason he wanted us to work alternatives not relying on Nash as much. If you don't ever work on it, if the only offense you want to see is Nash leading fastbreaks, how could you ever improve your playing with Nash neutralized in playoffs? Some people don't care, they just wanna watch eye-pleasing scoring. But some do and worry.

 

[Ninjafish]

It didn't work when it counted most last playoffs, did it? How could DA with Shaq on this team ever overcome the likes of the Spurs, or even Hornets and now Lakers?

You're right, they couldn't because the defense sucked. I'm not defending DA's defense. I'm just saying that Shaq can work fine playing the trackmeet style because he did it last year. Offense was never the problem with DA, even when he had Shaq.

 

[cly2tw]

You're right, they couldn't because the defense sucked. I'm not defending DA's defense. I'm just saying that Shaq can work fine playing the trackmeet style because he did it last year.

I'm just saying "fine" is not good enough. Thus, the change is necessary.

 

[Ninjafish]

The offense looking fine is vastly better than it has looked been in the last two months. If a change was necessary, it certainly wasn't to Porter's slow half court style. None of the players fit that style. Which is why I say that Bell was right in complaining about it.

Now that Porter and Kerr have done a 180 and have gone back to running, I doubt that Bell has any issues at all with the system.

His play and his comments recently showed that he was liking it.

Listen to him right before he was traded.

"This week (coach) Terry Porter has been pretty straight forward. He wants us to push the tempo and see what we can get, and if nothing presents itself there, put the ball into the big fella and try to score with him," said guard Raja Bell, who broke out of a personal funk with four 3-pointers and 14 points. "I think that was his idea all along, but he really simplified it for us.



"It felt good tonight. It was familiar and comfortable."

You don't think he would be willing to play this way?

 

[Covert Rain]

The offense looking fine is vastly better than it has looked been in the last two months. If a change was necessary, it certainly wasn't to Porter's slow half court style. None of the players fit that style. Which is why I say that Bell was right in complaining about it.

They have not gone back to running 100% and Porter has even said that they will still play halfcourt sets throwing into Shaq if there is no fast break available. Shaq fits that style. It's not a complete 180 or going back to the old system. It's using a balance of both systems. He is now allowing them to run when it's available versus just walking it down every single trip.

Now that Porter and Kerr have done a 180 and have gone back to running, I doubt that Bell has any issues at all with the system.

Maybe not but we would all still have a problem with Bell's defense.

 

[Brianellsworth]

 

[cly2tw]

The offense looking fine is vastly better than it has looked been in the last two months. If a change was necessary, it certainly wasn't to Porter's slow half court style. None of the players fit that style. Which is why I say that Bell was right in complaining about it.

Now that Porter and Kerr have done a 180 and have gone back to running, I doubt that Bell has any issues at all with the system.

His play and his comments recently showed that he was liking it.

Listen to him right before he was traded.



You don't think he would be willing to play this way?

You work on your weakness. That's why Porter rightly emphasized half court and defense. But Nash and Bell didn't like it. So, coach relented and said 'ok, run but not at cost of wasting Shaq out there', which actually subverted his authority a great deal.

And Bell's getting out of the funk might be partially due to showcasing himself to potential suitors after their trade request. He didn't seem surprized to get traded right after his good game.

 

[Ninjafish]

They have not gone back to running 100% and Porter has even said that they will still play halfcourt sets throwing into Shaq if there is no fast break available. Shaq fits that style. It's not a complete 180 or going back to the old system. It's using a balance of both systems. He is now allowing them to run when it's available versus just walking it down every single trip.

Either way, he was right to complain before and it sounded like he was content with the system after the changes were made. Whether or not it's an exact imitation of D'antoni's is beside the point.

Maybe not but we would all still have a problem with Bell's defense.

It's hard to imagine that our defense got better by trading away Bell and Diaw for Richardson and Dudley.

You work on your weakness. That's why Porter rightly emphasized half court and defense. But Nash and Bell didn't like it. So, coach relented and said 'ok, run but not at cost of wasting Shaq out there', which actually subverted his authority a great deal.

Haha, no one liked it because it wasn't working. Even Amare was complaining and longing for D'antoni in the press.

Okay, Bell is not here, so he doesn't have to relent anymore. So I guess now he's going to go back to his old system that no one liked (and was good at) but Shaq?

And Bell's getting out of the funk might be partially due to showcasing himself to potential suitors after their trade request. He didn't seem surprized to get traded right after his good game.

The entire team got out of their funk, not only Bell. They were all playing great.

 

[LV-Suns]

First look at them in Cats uni

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http://www.nba.com/bobcats/

Watch their press conf. on the front page.

 

[Sunburn]

I too think that Diaw is a very capable player when he gets the minutes. And i think it goes without saying that... he found some minutes here. Lets hope hes out to prove something. And really I think the French Connection (kick ass new nickname im taking credit for) with Ajinca will do him wonders. Kind of similiar players really, and seeing how aggressive Diaw is will only help AA. Cannot wait for the first debut of the French Connection when Okafor goes to the bench for a breather.

HAHAHAHA just read this in a bobcats forum. "and seeing how aggressive diaw is will only help AA". Did i actually read that? That sounds soooo funny being said in print. HAHAHAHAHA.

I'm not even a Diaw basher but even I know this is some comedic stuff.

 

[YouJustGotSUNSD]

Im pretty sure Leander locked down french connection a while ago.

 

[elindholm]

They're hoping that Diaw's addition will make their other French player less passive? That's a riot.

 

[Covert Rain]

Whether or not it's an exact imitation of D'antoni's is beside the point.

It's not besides the point when you mentioned it. D'Antoni had no half court game or half court sets. Porter does. D'Antoni spent half the games with Shaq playing him at the top of the key. Porter has played to Shaq's strenghts from day 1 and it's universally viewed as Shaq best year since the Heat one the title. So that is exactly the point. Finding a balance between the 2 systems is much different then returning to the old system.

It's hard to imagine that our defense got better by trading away Bell and Diaw for Richardson and Dudley.
.

Well it's only been two games but.....you don't have to imagine so far. Opponents PER at the SG spot has dropped in half in 2 games. JRich has already won 2 head to heads at the SG in just two games. Raja only won 3 head to heads in 16 games. I would say so far so good.

 

[Ninjafish]

It's not besides the point when you mentioned it. D'Antoni had no half court game or half court sets. Porter does. D'Antoni spent half the games with Shaq playing him at the top of the key. Porter has played to Shaq's strenghts from day 1 and it's universally viewed as Shaq best year since the Heat one the title. So that is exactly the point. Finding a balance between the 2 systems is much different then
returning to the old system.

Nope, the point is that Porter's old slowed down style was not working for anyone but Shaq, Bell was right to complain just like Amare and Nash were, and Bell was happy again now that they were back to playing faster and having Nash control the offense more. Whether I was right or wrong in calling the new style D'antoni's style is completely and totally irrelevant. I don't even know why you're talking about it.

Porter was clueless on day 1 for only playing to Shaq's strengths and not going to the team's best strengths. Shaq was having his best year, everyone else was regressing. And he was rightly called out by it by Nash, Bell, Amare, Charles Barkley, and almost all Suns fans. However he has smartened up a bit. That's besides the point too though.

Well it's only been two games but.....you don't have to imagine so far. Opponents PER at the SG spot has dropped in half in 2 games. JRich has already won 2 head to heads at the SG in just two games. Raja only won 3 head to heads in 16 games. I would say so far so good.

The two SGs in the Orlando game were Bogans and Lee. Bogans scored 16 points on 5 of 8 shooting with 4 3 pointers and Lee scored 8 on 2 of 4 shooting. Clearly if he won those head to heads, he did it offense.

Then again, maybe they scored all of those points when he was out of the game. And I don't recall him even guarding Quentin at the Knicks game. PER at a certain position and head to heads are a pretty silly way to judge a player's defense.

Don't forgot we lost Diaw as well. He was a decent defender. Offensively, JRich can make up for both Bell and Diaw, but defensively? I hope it's the case, but like I said it's difficult to imagine. Seeing us against Kobe for the first time without Bell is going to be a scary sight I think.

 

[mojorizen7]

Nope, the point is that Porter's old slowed down style was not working for anyone but Shaq, Bell was right to complain just like Amare and Nash were, and Bell was happy again now that they were back to playing faster and having Nash control the offense more. Whether I was right or wrong in calling the new style D'antoni's style is completely and totally irrelevant. I don't even know why you're talking about it.

Porter was clueless on day 1 for only playing to Shaq's strengths and not going to the team's best strengths. Shaq was having his best year, everyone else was regressing. And he was rightly called out by it by Nash, Bell, Amare, Charles Barkley, and almost all Suns fans. However he has smartened up a bit. That's besides the point too though.



The two SGs in the Orlando game were Bogans and Lee. Bogans scored 16 points on 5 of 8 shooting with 4 3 pointers and Lee scored 8 on 2 of 4 shooting. Clearly if he won those head to heads, he did it offense.

Then again, maybe they scored all of those points when he was out of the game. And I don't recall him even guarding Quentin at the Knicks game. PER at a certain position and head to heads are a pretty silly way to judge a player's defense.

Don't forgot we lost Diaw as well. He was a decent defender. Offensively, JRich can make up for both Bell and Diaw, but defensively? I hope it's the case, but like I said it's difficult to imagine. Seeing us against Kobe for the first time without Bell is going to be a scary sight I think.

It remains to be seen how the departure of Bell/Diaw will effect this team defensively but your point of guarding Kobe without Raja is interesting.
Kobe's ppg are down nearly 4 points this year and he appears to be looking to his talented teammates to contribute and score more often thus getting Gasol,Bynum,Odom involved. The LAKERS seem to be a better "team" as a result.
The age old question: Do you let Kobe go off for 50 or do you focus your defense on him and let the Gasol's, Vujacic's and the Derek Fishers get hot?
IMO there's a fine line here. I say you let Kobe get his...to a point.
You pick your spots to double & trap him. The more that his teammates stand around & watch the less likely these guys are going to hit big shots late in the game when Kobe may need them.
Its a tough cover.
Point being Raja isn't a Kobe stopper anymore(was he ever really?....was anybody?)so i wouldn't be too concerned about Kobe going off for 50 pts against us simply because Raja isn't here anymore.
Kobe gets what he wants 99% of the time offensively.

 

[nowagimp]

Well it's only been two games but.....you don't have to imagine so far. Opponents PER at the SG spot has dropped in half in 2 games. JRich has already won 2 head to heads at the SG in just two games. Raja only won 3 head to heads in 16 games. I would say so far so good.

Wow we shut down orlando(without Pietrus out with injury) and the knicks without crawford(traded). Im not sure how those guys compare to the rudy gay, kobe, branden roy, Vince carter, TMAC, danny granger, but I think your 2 game opp PER at the '2' stats smells like fish, and not fresh fish.

 

[DeAnna]

LoL, Raja is still pissed.

The starter at shooting guard, Raja Bell, was ejected in the first quarter for cussing out referee Eli Roe.
But the defense was strong the rest of the way and the addition of forward Boris Diaw has made for better ball-movement. That was clear from the easy looks Okafor (20 points, 13 rebounds and four blocks) got inside.
“Boris is such a talent,'' Okafor said. “He just sucks a defense in, and you finish the play.''

 

[nowagimp]

LoL, Raja is still pissed.

Yeah but the bobcats see the value of Diaw. I watched him in the bobcats OT win against the bulls(yes those bulls that beat the shaqless suns). Diaws defense on gooden late(denied him in the low post) was key to getting into OT. He also had a nifty dime in the lane to okafor to get another critical bucket in the waning moments of regulation. The normally "shy" diaw has averaged 20 ppg in two games and is putting up 15 shots a game. Its looking to me like diaw and amare just didnt mix well.

 

[Ninjafish]

About that Opponents PER at the SG position stat....

 

[Muggum]

We shoulda run every offensive play through Diaw if not Nash. He's a wizard. Always loved him. Never thought we went to him enough.

 

[Cheesebeef]

LoL, Raja is still pissed.

lol. when I first read Okafor's comments I thought he said "Boris just sucks at defense, then you just finish the play". I was thinking, damn, that team doesn't mince words.