Benson no longer in the running for top honors

[Duckjake]

First of all, you've got two different accounts of Benson's forty times, and which on it is makes a whole lot of difference. So which is it: the mid 4.6's? Or 4.51 and 4.59?

To me, the one remaining defining criteria needed to define Benson was straight ahead speed. At 225+ pounds and with his kind of strength, would he have the skills of the elite RB prospects like Tomlinson or Edgerrin James?

Mid-4.6 time would suggest is that (a) on the upside, maybe you could be looking at the next Jerome Bettis but (b) on the downside, you might be looking at the next Curtis Enos.

With his kind of strength, times in the 4.51 - 4.59 range wouldn't hurt him so much (Remember that Emmitt is said to run a 4.6).

Benson at #8? At 4.65, I'd think you'd now have to consider him too risky a pick. At 4.51 - 4.59, I think he'd still have to be considered a possibility - though certainly no longer in the Top 3 - 5 range.

From Inside Texas/Scout.com:

Benson, who did not run at the Combine, acquitted himself well in Austin, clocking in at from 4.51 to 4.59 in the 40 according to NFL.com. [Note: due to UT's media rules for the event, which prohibit the release of specific performances by the Longhorns working out, the figures used in this article are either directly from the player or from NFL.com, which is not restricted in its use of the data. Scout.com's TheNFLexperts.com is reporting that individual team times on Benson all came in at 4.61 or worse.] NFL.com's numbers on Benson are slightly slower than the Combine numbers turned in by other top backs Ronnie Brown and Cadillac Williams of Auburn, who ran 4.48 and 4.40, respectively in Indianapolis, but Gil Brandt, former VP of personnel for the Dallas Cowboys and current NFL.com Senior Analyst, said that might be comparing "apples to oranges."

Benson also caught 22 passes for 179 yards last season. 69 for 621 in his career. More evidence that he most likely does not fit the Cardinals offense. On the other hand having our OC at the pro day may indicate otherwise.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

I watched a few texas games and I really though he had great game speed. What impressed me the most was his vision and low gravity when hitting the hole. Not only that, but he was impossible to arm tackle in college. I am sure it would be harder to break those arm tackles in the pro's though.

I am starting to think that if Brown / Caddy / Pac Man are gone we will try to trade down. Two interesting or potential trades could be

Trade with San Diego for #12 and #28 and send them #8 and #44

or

Trade with Carolina at #14 and #45 and send them #8

Both trades budget out for point totals on the draft trade chart.

i agree with everything you said. watching him in college - he was a complete stud. tough as nails to bring down. and that's been the case since his freshman year. i'd also consider both of those trades.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

That's a tough one based on productivity. But seeing we still have a similar back in Shipp - we pass.

seeing benson and shipp compared as "similar" makes me want to vomit.

 

[ajcardfan]

First of all, you've got two different accounts of Benson's forty times, and which on it is makes a whole lot of difference. So which is it: the mid 4.6's? Or 4.51 and 4.59?

To me, the one remaining defining criteria needed to define Benson was straight ahead speed. At 225+ pounds and with his kind of strength, would he have the skills of the elite RB prospects like Tomlinson or Edgerrin James?

Mid-4.6 time would suggest is that (a) on the upside, maybe you could be looking at the next Jerome Bettis but (b) on the downside, you might be looking at the next Curtis Enos.

With his kind of strength, times in the 4.51 - 4.59 range wouldn't hurt him so much (Remember that Emmitt is said to run a 4.6).

Benson at #8? At 4.65, I'd think you'd now have to consider him too risky a pick. At 4.51 - 4.59, I think he'd still have to be considered a possibility - though certainly no longer in the Top 3 - 5 range.

I think you are thinking way too hard about it. I don't think a tenth in 40 time is that big of a deal. I like Cadillac the best, followed by Benson and then Brown.

 

[JPlay]

I would rather have Cadillac, but Benson won't fall past us. You have to look at his college numbers. They're outstanding. This guy won't be running full speed anyways, he's a pounder. Ricky Williams like.

 

[az jam]

We have two different reports on how Benson performed. Most NFL webb sites are going with the Brandt report saying his 40 time was the 4.5 average. Would be nice to have this clarified.

Agree with Jeff that a 4.65 would cause him to drop. If he is there at #8 do the Cards take him?

 

[Rats]

We have two different reports on how Benson performed. Most NFL webb sites are going with the Brandt report saying his 40 time was the 4.5 average. Would be nice to have this clarified.

Agree with Jeff that a 4.65 would cause him to drop. If he is there at #8 do the Cards take him?

I think the issue with Benson is how much of Bensons production was a product of having Vince Young in the backfield and how much is Bensons own athletic ability. He is a very determined runner and has power. He did not do well in bigger games (Okla) but ran over other opponents. If he is at #8 I would not be butt hurt about taking him but would rather have Henry and a Cb or Johnson from Texas. No Henry...then grab Benson and Re-sign Hill and grab a corner in the second or third. Benson is still a top 10 back.

 

[Russ Smith]

I think the issue with Benson is how much of Bensons production was a product of having Vince Young in the backfield and how much is Bensons own athletic ability. He is a very determined runner and has power. He did not do well in bigger games (Okla) but ran over other opponents. If he is at #8 I would not be butt hurt about taking him but would rather have Henry and a Cb or Johnson from Texas. No Henry...then grab Benson and Re-sign Hill and grab a corner in the second or third. Benson is still a top 10 back.

No question Young helped his numbers, but so did quitting baseball and dedicating himself to football, since both happened the same year it's hard to know how much each was a factor.

Benson was a great college player, my objections to him have nothing to do with thinking he's overrated, I just don't think he fits Green's offense, and I think the way he runs, and the amount of carries he had in college, spell short career to me.

if we took him I won't be screaming Green's an idiot, I have no doubt he'll be a very productive runner, I just expect a shorter career, and very little impact in the passing game from him. If that's ok with the team drafting him he'll be fine, if they're expecting 10 years of LT type production, they're probably going to be disappointed.

 

[Rats]

No question Young helped his numbers, but so did quitting baseball and dedicating himself to football, since both happened the same year it's hard to know how much each was a factor.

Benson was a great college player, my objections to him have nothing to do with thinking he's overrated, I just don't think he fits Green's offense, and I think the way he runs, and the amount of carries he had in college, spell short career to me.

if we took him I won't be screaming Green's an idiot, I have no doubt he'll be a very productive runner, I just expect a shorter career, and very little impact in the passing game from him. If that's ok with the team drafting him he'll be fine, if they're expecting 10 years of LT type production, they're probably going to be disappointed.

I would agree Russ, the other thing about Benson is does he have the homerun hitting break away speed that Denny likes. That could be said to be overated because Denny did have Terry Allen and Leroy Hoard pounding the ball before Smith and Bennett but DGd does tend to like someone like Cadillac that can take the rock to the house at any given time. Pass catching wise can SHipp complement Bensons power by being the pass catching third down back? I think that remains to be seen. As stated I would like Benson under certain scenarios but could also see the Cb or TE or Johnson if he is left at 8.

 

[Russ Smith]

I would agree Russ, the other thing about Benson is does he have the homerun hitting break away speed that Denny likes. That could be said to be overated because Denny did have Terry Allen and Leroy Hoard pounding the ball before Smith and Bennett but DGd does tend to like someone like Cadillac that can take the rock to the house at any given time. Pass catching wise can SHipp complement Bensons power by being the pass catching third down back? I think that remains to be seen. As stated I would like Benson under certain scenarios but could also see the Cb or TE or Johnson if he is left at 8.

yeah I'm still taking Johnson if I'm in charge and he's there but if I am, I've already traded for Surtain.

I strongly suspect we'll end up getting Henry and drafting a CB in round 1 and then another RB in round 2 unless there's another good CB.

Those comments about Henry from Green sound to me like he's perfectly willing to go into next year with henry as his starting RB he's just not going to overpay, and I think ultimately Buffalo will take the deal.

 

[JeffGollin]

Agree with Jeff that a 4.65 would cause him to drop. If he is there at #8 do the Cards take him?
That's a similar kind of question to "How's your wife (i.e. compared to who?)

Who else will be available at #8 should Benson still be there? I can think of 3 or 4 players I'd draft ahead of Benson; including Brown, Rolle and Rogers.

Regarding the difference of "only 0.1 seconds in a forty time" - Point well taken, but what it does is elevate the risk. And it's not really 0.1 second - it's more like nearly 1.7 from the extreme ranges of 4.51 and 4.68.

Numbers are merely "symbols reflecting life." (i.e. real life performance comes first; the numbers then follow. Not vice versa). That said, when I watched Benson, I was impressed by his strength and second effort (against college players) but a bit nervous about his lack of speed and quicks.

But it's not even the concern about present day quickness and speed that really concerns me; it's trying to project what Benson will be like after he becomes a pro:

- Will he still be strong enough to break tackles made by players of NFL size and strength?

- Will he be one of those guys who stays in shape and maintains what quickness and speed he does have?

- Or will he hit the fast food joints, gain 15 - 20 pounds and turn into Curt Enis?

Those factors are hard to weigh before the draft by fans who aren't privy to all the inside info about a guy, his character (and his appetite and self-discipline).

This is why you hear scouts talk a lot about a player's "ceiling" (i.e. upside) and "floor" (downside risk). Benson could wind up going to the Pro Bowl for several years, but he's not without a significant degree of risk. Are the Cardinals at a stage of development of their franchise where they can afford to roll the dice? I'm not so sure about that.

 

[Ouchie-Z-Clown]

Agree with Jeff that a 4.65 would cause him to drop. If he is there at #8 do the Cards take him?
That's a similar kind of question to "How's your wife (i.e. compared to who?)

Who else will be available at #8 should Benson still be there? I can think of 3 or 4 players I'd draft ahead of Benson; including Brown, Rolle and Rogers.

Regarding the difference of "only 0.1 seconds in a forty time" - Point well taken, but what it does is elevate the risk. And it's not really 0.1 second - it's more like nearly 1.7 from the extreme ranges of 4.51 and 4.68.

Numbers are merely "symbols reflecting life." (i.e. real life performance comes first; the numbers then follow. Not vice versa). That said, when I watched Benson, I was impressed by his strength and second effort (against college players) but a bit nervous about his lack of speed and quicks.

But it's not even the concern about present day quickness and speed that really concerns me; it's trying to project what Benson will be like after he becomes a pro:

- Will he still be strong enough to break tackles made by players of NFL size and strength?

- Will he be one of those guys who stays in shape and maintains what quickness and speed he does have?

- Or will he hit the fast food joints, gain 15 - 20 pounds and turn into Curt Enis?

Those factors are hard to weigh before the draft by fans who aren't privy to all the inside info about a guy, his character (and his appetite and self-discipline).

This is why you hear scouts talk a lot about a player's "ceiling" (i.e. upside) and "floor" (downside risk). Benson could wind up going to the Pro Bowl for several years, but he's not without a significant degree of risk. Are the Cardinals at a stage of development of their franchise where they can afford to roll the dice? I'm not so sure about that.

can't really argue with anything you say, but i will say this - he is not likely to go the curtis enis route and eat himself away. dude has been solid and a warrior since his freshman year. if this was a junior i could understand the concern, but he's had 4 years of showing self-discipline.

 

[az jam]

Denny might surprise us all and take Benson. When he drafted Bennett; he actually had Deuce McAllister rated higher and thought that would be the Viking pick as he was dropping. However the Saints surprised everyone by drafting McAllister even though they had Ricky Williams at the time. So the Vikings took Bennett. McAllister is 6'1" and about 225lbs. a much bigger back than Bennet and not as fast.
However, as a disclaimer I want to point out that I'm usually wrong on who Denny is going to pick. Last year was the exception as I (along with most others) really felt he would take Fitz at #3.

 

[SeattleCard]

That's a tough one based on productivity. But seeing we still have a similar back in Shipp - we pass.

Crazy to think the last time Shipp saw the field was during the Dave McGinnis era...

My how the times have changed on the team. I hope Shipp still has a place and a future, but it isn't looking very likely.

 

[Duckjake]

I think the issue with Benson is how much of Bensons production was a product of having Vince Young in the backfield and how much is Bensons own athletic ability. He is a very determined runner and has power. He did not do well in bigger games (Okla) but ran over other opponents. If he is at #8 I would not be butt hurt about taking him but would rather have Henry and a Cb or Johnson from Texas. No Henry...then grab Benson and Re-sign Hill and grab a corner in the second or third. Benson is still a top 10 back.

Last season Benson rushed for 188 yards against Arkansas in Fayettville. It was the most important home game to the Razorbacks in the last 10 years. Impressed the heck out of me.

Still can't figure out why Arkansas considers Texas their #1 rival instead of somebody like LSU who is actually in their conference.

 

[choginals]

Still can't figure out why Arkansas considers Texas their #1 rival instead of somebody like LSU who is actually in their conference.

70+ years in the SWC vs 10+ in the SEC

 

[Rats]

Last season Benson rushed for 188 yards against Arkansas in Fayettville. It was the most important home game to the Razorbacks in the last 10 years. Impressed the heck out of me.

Still can't figure out why Arkansas considers Texas their #1 rival instead of somebody like LSU who is actually in their conference.

Come on Duck....the old Southwest Conferance had Arkansas, Texas A&M among others. UT has always had these two teams as significant border and instate rivals. in the late 80's the Razorbacks were a really good team and a good rival...I thought you knew Longhorn history..

 

[ajcardfan]

Come on Duck....the old Southwest Conferance had Arkansas, Texas A&M among others. UT has always had these two teams as significant border and instate rivals. in the late 80's the Razorbacks were a really good team and a good rival...I thought you knew Longhorn history..

I would say the heyday of the Arkansas-Texas rivalry was in the 60s and 70s. The SWC was nothing but a bunch of rivalries excepting TCU who was too bad for too long to be a rival to anyone besides SMU.

 

[Duckjake]

Come on Duck....the old Southwest Conferance had Arkansas, Texas A&M among others. UT has always had these two teams as significant border and instate rivals. in the late 80's the Razorbacks were a really good team and a good rival...I thought you knew Longhorn history..

I guess I should know better. After all Bill Bidwill still thinks Dallas is the Cardinals biggest rival.

But seriously, few if any real Cardinal fans still look at the old NFC East teams as bigger rivals than the Rams or Seahawks. And we've only been in the NFC West for a couple of years. The razorbacks have been in the SEC for over a decade and should have a natural rivalry with LSU. Goofy.